CARB or EFI and WHY??????????

#41
millhouse said:
It greatly depends on what your starting with and how frugal you are. Just because you achieved your times with a $7k carbed setup does not mean you can't do the same with fuel injection.

Yes, building from scratch with a carb is going to be cheaper…I have no qualms with that.

As far as fuel economy goes…there are plenty of us who like to have our cake and eat it too. I myself am capable of 24mpg on the freeway. When all is said and done I should be looking at a 10 second @ 125-130mph capable car that runs on premium, drives, idles and cruises excellent…and again…gets decent fuel economy. FYI, my setup didn't exactly break the bank either. :nice:
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frugal? Im a college student ....how frugal do you think i have to be? Only 1 semester left thank god!To each his own i suppose. I dont need a car that gets good fuel millage and goes 10s because my daily driver is an 03 mustang gt.. I have a truck bought and paid for and a trailor to tow the 88 to the track and back. I have had several friends that built efi cars and they have more problems than i could ever dream of.....injector failure, wiring flaws etc..... When i punch the gas i dont have to worry about anythin but bracing myself for a violant ride! Have you ran your car yet? whats the setup?
 
#42
I think even though it is a performance car, mileage CAN play a role in deciding what combo to run. If I could spend a little more and build and EFI motor that will get me mid 20s on the highway, I will save that money back in a couple seasons of driving it. Like I said I have friends getting 15 mpg, I am getting 25 mpg, I love not having to stop every 200 miles or less to fill up again!

Also we had less than $7000 into my dads car (I wont include the cost of the car, as it was bought years ago for $6500 in perfect shape) which was EFI, and clipped off a 7.48 in the 1/8th. Had we tossed a shot on it, it probably would have been 10s, and still well under the $7000 into it. I am not sure what a good carb set up goes for (my dads running one now, go figure) but I know we got the EFI stuff cheap, and it has a stock computer, no chip, and $50 worth of dyno time.

Now I know carbs go faster cheaper, but for the average guy on the street, with a newer model car, carbs might not be the best bet.
 
#43
Modular2v said:
frugal? Im a college student ....how frugal do you think i have to be? Only 1 semester left thank god!To each his own i suppose. I dont need a car that gets good fuel millage and goes 10s because my daily driver is an 03 mustang gt.. I have a truck bought and paid for and a trailor to tow the 88 to the track and back. I have had several friends that built efi cars and they have more problems than i could ever dream of.....injector failure, wiring flaws etc..... When i punch the gas i dont have to worry about anythin but bracing myself for a violant ride! Have you ran your car yet? whats the setup?
Click to expand...

You would be surprised how frugal people can be. I myself fabbed my turbo kit complete for $1700 including injectors, maf and intercooler. I happened to sell the MAF later on when I converted to megasquirt (speed density setup).

Unfortunately the my latest times were laden with problems. I had my turbo wastegates setup wrong (one side had to much boost, the other to little) and was running out of fuel past 5000 rpm. Now with almost everything almost straightened out I once again should be good to go…this time a bit better off.

For those of us that don't trailer the car to the track…and drive it more than just a weekend warrior, fuel economy can be quite beneficial. It's also much easier on the wallet simply cruising around town or hanging with the not so local car clubs. If given the choice between 2 identical appearing/sounding mustangs that run identical 1/4 times and trap speeds….but one get's 10mpg while the other 20mpg…which would you choose?
 
#44
Modular2v said:
another check mark in the "bad ass" column for fbd!
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lol... i have had countless conversations with JRichker on the topic, read threads like this between pro-efi and pro-carb people, and he and several other make very valid points, i just went the carb route because i would rather have to mess with a carb every once in a while than have to trace wires on 16 year old wiring. I like to know that if i have a problem, it has to be either "X" part or "y" part, and im back on the road pretty fast.

I have little patience when it comes to wiring and everything, and this just happened to be the better choice for me.
 
#45
FBD said:
lol... i have had countless conversations with JRichker on the topic, read threads like this between pro-efi and pro-carb people, and he and several other make very valid points, i just went the carb route because i would rather have to mess with a carb every once in a while than have to trace wires on 16 year old wiring. I like to know that if i have a problem, it has to be either "X" part or "y" part, and im back on the road pretty fast.

I have little patience when it comes to wiring and everything, and this just happened to be the better choice for me.
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I'm pretty good at wiring so I don't mind an old EFI system :nice: I grew up in a lawnmower shop fixing chainsaws and such... now there's something to work on. The chainsaw carbs are a square inch.. just a tiny little thing off, and the dang chainsaw won't run. I understand the simplicity of running carb in a car too. If I ever buy an 85 or lower, I may stick to carb but I won't convert a good running EFI car. I would, however, convert a running carb car to EFI. Either way, they do the same job - that's what people need to understand.
 
#46
millhouse said:
You would be surprised how frugal people can be. I myself fabbed my turbo kit complete for $1700 including injectors, maf and intercooler. I happened to sell the MAF later on when I converted to megasquirt (speed density setup).

Unfortunately the my latest times were laden with problems. I had my turbo wastegates setup wrong (one side had to much boost, the other to little) and was running out of fuel past 5000 rpm. Now with almost everything almost straightened out I once again should be good to go…this time a bit better off.

For those of us that don't trailer the car to the track…and drive it more than just a weekend warrior, fuel economy can be quite beneficial. It's also much easier on the wallet simply cruising around town or hanging with the not so local car clubs. If given the choice between 2 identical appearing/sounding mustangs that run identical 1/4 times and trap speeds….but one get's 10mpg while the other 20mpg…which would you choose?
Click to expand...

I dont HAVE to trailor mine...a matter of fact i have only needed the trailor one time and thats because my car snapped the driveshaft in half off the starting line! Who says i only get 10 miles to the gallon?I believe fuel injection has its place ....its just not on a race car :) how much do u have invested in tuning? I have ZERO dollars in it....oh wait, the carb jets i bought for 5 dollars, does that count? And if i ever change my setup all i have to do is do a couple tweaks with a screwdriver and im done! to each his own!
 
#47
I have to say my carb'd Mustang got better mileage than my current EFI one in town :lol: I don't know how to explain that one... I also had a 750cfm vaccum edlebrock carb. I know "too much cfm" but it was vacuum, not like double pumper holley carb.

I put a Holley street avenger 570cfm on my uncle's car with a performer rpm intake... thing runs pretty good and gets the same mileage as his 3.8L V6 Taurus.
 
#48
Boss 351 said:
I have to say my carb'd Mustang got better mileage than my current EFI one in town :lol: I don't know how to explain that one... I also had a 750cfm vaccum edlebrock carb. I know "too much cfm" but it was vacuum, not like double pumper holley carb.

I put a Holley street avenger 570cfm on my uncle's car with a performer rpm intake... thing runs pretty good and gets the same mileage as his 3.8L V6 Taurus.
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i have heard this story several times! One local guy that owns a machine shop has a mild 331 that runs low 12s and he got 19mpg!!!!!!!! The car only got 16 when efi!:rlaugh: Not saying this is always the case but it is amusing!
 
#49
Modular2v said:
I dont HAVE to trailor mine...a matter of fact i have only needed the trailor one time and thats because my car snapped the driveshaft in half off the starting line! Who says i only get 10 miles to the gallon?I believe fuel injection has its place ....its just not on a race car :) how much do u have invested in tuning? I have ZERO dollars in it....oh wait, the carb jets i bought for 5 dollars, does that count? And if i ever change my setup all i have to do is do a couple tweaks with a screwdriver and im done! to each his own!
Click to expand...


The way you worded it…. "I have a truck bought and paid for and a trailor to tow the 88 to the track and back" sounded as if you were doing it regularly…and as if it was another reason fuel mileage wasn't an issue.

I never said you get 10 miles per gallon…but rather asked a hypothetical question (which you have yet to answer). :D

Me invested in tuning? Less than 400 for the stand alone including a wide band. If you count the money I saved by selling my MAF (~$200) your looking at $200 for the ability to tune with a wideband….that's it. Guess what happens when I want to change my tune? Yep, I hop in the car and take it for a drive…and re-adjust my VE tables accordingly. Hell, I don't even have to adjust on the fly…I can datalog everything…run the program and my VE tables will automatically adjust accordingly. More injectors, more fuel pressure, nitrous, turbo, supercharger…no problem. Hell, I can program in a 2-step, nitrous control, boost control, water injection, fan control etc. for next to nothing. Hell, I just picked up a capacitor and 2 resistors…and BAM!!! I can now datalog my fuel pressure with a cheap transducer I picked up.
 
#50
millhouse said:
The way you worded it…. "I have a truck bought and paid for and a trailor to tow the 88 to the track and back" sounded as if you were doing it regularly…and as if it was another reason fuel mileage wasn't an issue.

I never said you get 10 miles per gallon…but rather asked a hypothetical question (which you have yet to answer). :D

Me invested in tuning? Less than 400 for the stand alone including a wide band. If you count the money I saved by selling my MAF (~$200) your looking at $200 for the ability to tune with a wideband….that's it. Guess what happens when I want to change my tune? Yep, I hop in the car and take it for a drive…and re-adjust my VE tables accordingly. Hell, I don't even have to adjust on the fly…I can datalog everything…run the program and my VE tables will automatically adjust accordingly. More injectors, more fuel pressure, nitrous, turbo, supercharger…no problem. Hell, I can program in a 2-step, nitrous control, boost control, water injection, fan control etc. for next to nothing. Hell, I just picked up a capacitor and 2 resistors…and BAM!!! I can now datalog my fuel pressure with a cheap transducer I picked up.
Click to expand...

my speedometer hasnt worked since i tore the car apart (speedo cable broke) otherwise i could tell you! I will say this....with 3 gallons in the fuel cell i drove 45 miles and when i got home there was still some gas in the fuel cell
 
#51
Modular2v said:
my speedometer hasnt worked since i tore the car apart (speedo cable broke) otherwise i could tell you! I will say this....with 3 gallons in the fuel cell i drove 45 miles and when i got home there was still some gas in the fuel cell
Click to expand...

I wasn't asking what fuel economy you get…but rather a hypothetical question which was:

"If given the choice between 2 identical appearing/sounding mustangs that run identical 1/4 times and trap speeds….but one get's 10mpg while the other 20mpg…which would you choose?"
 
#52
millhouse said:
I wasn't asking what fuel economy you get…but rather a hypothetical question which was:

"If given the choice between 2 identical appearing/sounding mustangs that run identical 1/4 times and trap speeds….but one get's 10mpg while the other 20mpg…which would you choose?"
Click to expand...

id be the person to take the car with 10mpg for some reason.........dont ask me why cause i dont know. im just smart like that.......:rlaugh:
 
#55
Boss 351 said:
I have to say my carb'd Mustang got better mileage than my current EFI one in town :lol: I don't know how to explain that one... I also had a 750cfm vaccum edlebrock carb. I know "too much cfm" but it was vacuum, not like double pumper holley carb.

I put a Holley street avenger 570cfm on my uncle's car with a performer rpm intake... thing runs pretty good and gets the same mileage as his 3.8L V6 Taurus.
Click to expand...



Ok man, i hate to do this, but this statement tells me you don't know all that much about carbs....so i'm sorry ahead of time but here's why. Just because a carb is a 'double pumper' doesn't mean it's going to have worse gas mileage than even an 850 with vacuum secondaries. What double pumper means is that the front and rear bowls have their own metering pates and fuel lines hence double pumper. Both carbs have secondaries and if they were both vacuum secondary they would operate the same way.

Here's another one for ya....my car has mechanical secondaries as opposed to vacuum secondaries. A lot of people think that means it's going to get worse mpg.....wrong again. The reason is, i can feel the secondaries through opening through the extra effort it takes to push the gas pedal, whereas a vacuum secondary carb will open any time the vacuum supplied to it exceeds the force of the spring that's holding the diaphram open....meaning every time you take off too quick or go up a hill, or pretty much all the damn time in an automatic. I could drive my car 100 miles and never open the secondaries, which basically means i'm only running on 2 barrels which gives me better (although admittedly still not fantastic) mpg.

I will say this though....my 'stang still get around 16mph on the highway, and my '98 Cherokee gets exactly the same with an inline 6....and that's with 4.10s and low profile tires all around vs. an engine with less cylinders, less cubes, lower gear ratio and taller tires. It's just an example that EFI doesn't necessarily equal mpg either.


And btw if your carb motor is only getting 10mpg, you must be running 4.56 gears and an 1150cfm Holley Dominator :lol:
 
#60
85_SS_302_Coupe said:
I will say this though....my 'stang still get around 16mph on the highway, and my '98 Cherokee gets exactly the same with an inline 6....and that's with 4.10s and low profile tires all around vs. an engine with less cylinders, less cubes, lower gear ratio and taller tires. It's just an example that EFI doesn't necessarily equal mpg either.
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You get 16 mpg on the highway? Instead of comparing it to a Jeep (mine got less than that too with the AWD V8) compare it to my car. 27 mpg on the highway with EFI and mine probably weighed a LOT more. I do have 3.73s, not 4.10s, but it's a more fair comparison.
 
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