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Engine Cooling system Advice?

  • Thread starter Thread starter admLSC7
  • Start date Start date Apr 14, 2020
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#21
  • Apr 18, 2020
  • #21
The biggest thing to remember when planning a 'build' is the 'real world', where most of the driving will be done.
 
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admLSC7

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#22
  • Apr 18, 2020
  • #22
General karthief said:
Ok, lets check it out, first I will add that I have underdrive pulleys, this test was done on a stock 5.0 and it worked but was not mentioned was the real world, charging and cooling issues were not addressed. The real world is there can be (I say 'can be' because there are workarounds for these issues) problems when sitting in traffic at night in the summer time with the ac on.
Ok, so you don't sit in traffic at night in the summertime with the ac on. Because you can't. The temps will rise and the voltage will drop. Real world.
I mentioned workarounds, now you are installing electric cooling fans then a 3g alternator. Well you did accidentally gained a few more ponys. All's well. Most of the time.
Was the $60 bucks worth the 16hp and 17 lbft at 5k.
Real world driving is at say 3200 rpms where the gain is 7 hp and 11 lbft. Not so much now but some.
For some it works, for me it is marginal.
Now you can make an informed decision.
Click to expand...
Thanks Marcelo,
Basically what I’m trying to do. Like I said I’ve read good and bad. Fairly certain the MKVii has 100 amp too which I’m increased my chances on the charging. Also, why I’m upgrading my RAD and water pump plus future modifications. Have to do the tail shaft bushing and seal and a few other things so not going all out on the motor at the moment. I basically drive it only in New England summers. I’ve had it since I was a kid and got it with 60 k. Beat the piss out of it back in the day and basically just want to cruise and get my suspension up to snuff. Are you running the alternator pulley on a stock alternator? I know some guys don’t. I also never use the AC bc I’m not about to charge it back up with Freon rather ride with the windows down. Running a 180 thermostat and picked up the Edlebrock victor high flow pump as well as the 3 core aluminum radiator. The car runs solid as is just trying to free it up a little which is exactly what I’ve read about. Definitely plan to do the electric fans in the future and 3g alt upgrade.
 
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admLSC7

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#23
  • Apr 18, 2020
  • #23
KRUISR said:
I agree with the General.

If looking for freed up horsepower. Switch to electric fans (3G alt will be required). I have read tests (and based on personal experience, I believe them) that removal of clutch fan is 15-20 hp. Test I read said 18, but everyone's results will vary slightly. I have put UDP's on and off and right now I am not sure what I have.
Click to expand...
that’s the future plan. Some guys runs the UDPs not problem, some seem to see their problems once they put them on etc. Any chance you have managed to take out the lower raiator hose spring and switch it to a new hose? Doesn’t seem like a complicated thing to do just curious.
 

KRUISR

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#24
  • Apr 18, 2020
  • #24
My car does not have a spring in the lower hose. The only purpose for one that I can think of is if the water pump is pulling essentially a vacuum and collapsing the lower hose. Otherwise what is the point. Stock hose is molded already so spring not needed for shape.
 
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marcelo

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Apr 18, 2020
#25
  • Apr 18, 2020
  • #25
you can questioning all mods ..if you want ..go UD pulleys then go better intake, cold air, bigger TB and Longtube headers, cam, alu heads ..finally you have +300 WHP instead of 180 ... thats what its all about ... making a bit more power ..and to have the "its modified! " feeling.. hahaha ....there will be no problems with UD pullys, good pump and 3 row cooler ..i never had a overheating problem not even here in very hot Costa Rica
 
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
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#26
  • Apr 18, 2020
  • #26
I was not questioning the modification, just adding more information.
Like I said, there are workarounds.
 
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Blown88GT

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#27
  • Apr 19, 2020
  • #27
marcelo said:
why that ??? i run underdrive pulleys since years and no problem with that ...
Click to expand...
2 HP gain + cooling & charging problems.
 
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7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
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#28
  • Apr 19, 2020
  • #28
How old of tires do you trust to drive on? Hoses age and blow out, too. If in doubt, replace the old hoses and flush & change the coolant for reliability. BTW, they get really upset when you have a coolant problem on a track, so it’s not just street I am thinking about.

In Nebraska summers, I really appreciate the R134a that was already in my AC. As The General is trying to tell you, the under drive pulleys are not worth it on the street. When I asked ten years ago about them on the street, I was shown pictures of them as ash trays by people who tried them in climates that have wide temp variations.
Adding a higher output alternator and water pump probably adds enough drag to offset the pulleys gain. There are smarter ways to spend money on a street car.
 
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admLSC7

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#29
  • Apr 20, 2020
  • #29
7991LXnSHO said:
How old of tires do you trust to drive on? Hoses age and blow out, too. If in doubt, replace the old hoses and flush & change the coolant for reliability. BTW, they get really upset when you have a coolant problem on a track, so it’s not just street I am thinking about.

In Nebraska summers, I really appreciate the R134a that was already in my AC. As The General is trying to tell you, the under drive pulleys are not worth it on the street. When I asked ten years ago about them on the street, I was shown pictures of them as ash trays by people who tried them in climates that have wide temp variations.
Adding a higher output alternator and water pump probably adds enough drag to offset the pulleys gain. There are smarter ways to spend money on a street car.
Click to expand...
7991LXnSHO,
Thanks,
I know the hoses need to go, did most of them about 12 years ago at this point. And yeah that’s the perfect analogy for that. Not planning to try the under-drives on until I’ve solved my issue at high temp on the highway under load. The car does cool back down but sure isn’t right. Mostly trying to make it more powerful and if all goes well and I fix my leaks perhaps see how she does in the quarter some day with some gears.

Everyone has good advice here and it’s basically exactly what I’ve come across in all my reading. right now just trying to split the money and time between fixing some issues, upgrading a bit, and the suspension which I’m also in the process of upgrading. Ripped the air ride out years ago, rebuilt half the front suspension and currently beefing the rear up and adding some QA1s because I do not have perches in the car and the rear suspension is way different. Just looking for a cooling fix and a small bump in power. If you guys have some other ideas since UD pulleys seems to be a take it or leave it subject for the most part I’m open.
Was considering 1.7 rockers as well.

getting the hoses and radiator in this week, compression test, and possibly the water pump as well and I’ll let you guys know where that gets me I guess. Thanks for all the input.

quick question off topic but has anyone done they’re tailshaft bushing and seal? Currently on my list.
 

admLSC7

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#30
  • Apr 20, 2020
  • #30
In case I missed mentioning one of these

currently has 2 degree advanced timing (mentioned)
180 thermostat

X-pipe with no cats
2-1/4 back with 40/50 series I did about 18 years ago.
I still run copper plugs
Did wires, cap, rotor years ago but I barely get to driving it
 

Olivethefet

I will own your nuts! LOL
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#31
  • Apr 20, 2020
  • #31

I did the tailshaft bushing and seal a few months back. My car is a manual, but I would imagine it's basically the same. Seal is easy. Getting the old bushing out is the tricky part. I ended up using a sawzall of all things to split the bushing and it came right out. On my housing there was one spot about 1/4" wide and 1/8" deep that I was able to cut into without damaging the housing. I pulled the tailshaft housing off of the transmission. There is a tool for doing it on the car, but it was way to expensive for me to justify spending the money on it. There are pictures and more details on my progress thread.
 
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admLSC7

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#32
  • Apr 20, 2020
  • #32
Olivethefet said:

I did the tailshaft bushing and seal a few months back. My car is a manual, but I would imagine it's basically the same. Seal is easy. Getting the old bushing out is the tricky part. I ended up using a sawzall of all things to split the bushing and it came right out. On my housing there was one spot about 1/4" wide and 1/8" deep that I was able to cut into without damaging the housing. I pulled the tailshaft housing off of the transmission. There is a tool for doing it on the car, but it was way to expensive for me to justify spending the money on it. There are pictures and more details on my progress thread.
Click to expand...

doesn’t seem too bad of a job, I’m guessing you cut the sleeve of the bushing with the sawzall. Bold move in that area.
 

Olivethefet

I will own your nuts! LOL
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#33
  • Apr 20, 2020
  • #33
If you want to see what I did here is this link.

Progress Thread - Therapy Car-- Freshening Up the Lower Intake

Here's the game plan for freshening up the rear end. Shocks (I have KYB AGX on the front. I guess I'll go with that on the back unless someone changes my mind) Quad Shocks (any recommendations?) All new bushings including spherical bushings (I already have all of this except the spherical...
www.stangnet.com
 
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90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
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#34
  • Apr 20, 2020
  • #34
Just wanted to add....the lower radiator hose can collapse and cause an overheating issue in some cases. I've witnessed this first hand on a couple mustangs that had weird temperature spikes at sustained rpm. It also has to do with the radiator size. If I can, I always swap the spring from the lower radiator hose into the new one.

Under drive bullies are a waste of time man. To each their own but those days are over for me.
 
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M

Monkeybutt2000

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#35
  • Apr 20, 2020
  • #35
I never,not once had an issue with UD pullies. Always ran them years back and my car currently runs them. However,I'm sticking with the stock alternator pulley,as I upgraded to a 3g and want it to it's full ability. Oh,I LOVE Mk 7s !! You should manual swap it Also,I've never ran anything other than a stock radiator,again never an issue. Hell my buddies 93 Cobra ran a stock radiator for years,was a 10sec car.
 
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admLSC7

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Apr 21, 2020
#36
  • Apr 21, 2020
  • #36
Olivethefet said:
If you want to see what I did here is this link.

Progress Thread - Therapy Car-- Freshening Up the Lower Intake

Here's the game plan for freshening up the rear end. Shocks (I have KYB AGX on the front. I guess I'll go with that on the back unless someone changes my mind) Quad Shocks (any recommendations?) All new bushings including spherical bushings (I already have all of this except the spherical...
www.stangnet.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link.
 

admLSC7

Member
May 30, 2015
44
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Apr 21, 2020
#37
  • Apr 21, 2020
  • #37
90sickfox said:
Just wanted to add....the lower radiator hose can collapse and cause an overheating issue in some cases. I've witnessed this first hand on a couple mustangs that had weird temperature spikes at sustained rpm. It also has to do with the radiator size. If I can, I always swap the spring from the lower radiator hose into the new one.

Under drive bullies are a waste of time man. To each their own but those days are over for me.
Click to expand...
Any trouble removing the spring? I’m sure I can get it out but I’m open to tricks if you got one.
 

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
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#38
  • Apr 21, 2020
  • #38
Take a knife or razor and cut the hose. Easiest way to get it out. CJ Pony Parts has them for sale...so does summit but theirs are by size. I've had some not so great issues with CJ so that's not my most favorite place to order from.

If the suction of the pump becomes more than the radiator can flow it will collapse the hose. Here's a screen shot of Ellisons Machine Shop running an engine they currently have for sale in Maryland. Look at that hose sucking in.



This guy is pretty awesome and shares a lot of knowledge. If you have FB join and watch some of his vids.
 
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admLSC7

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May 30, 2015
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Apr 21, 2020
#39
  • Apr 21, 2020
  • #39
Monkeybutt2000 said:
I never,not once had an issue with UD pullies. Always ran them years back and my car currently runs them. However,I'm sticking with the stock alternator pulley,as I upgraded to a 3g and want it to it's full ability. Oh,I LOVE Mk 7s !! You should manual swap it Also,I've never ran anything other than a stock radiator,again never an issue. Hell my buddies 93 Cobra ran a stock radiator for years,was a 10sec car.
Click to expand...
Thanks,
Anyone I knnow who owned one loves em... some people think it’s a t-bird, idk. I definitely plan to manual swap it. Was supposed to pick up a borg-Warner T5 years ago cheap and then the guy quit my buddy’s shop and I never got it. Would love to have a stick in it. Every other car I’ve owned has been stick and it’s the one thing that drives me nuts about the car.

decent photo
 

admLSC7

Member
May 30, 2015
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Apr 21, 2020
#40
  • Apr 21, 2020
  • #40
90sickfox said:
Take a knife or razor and cut the hose. Easiest way to get it out. CJ Pony Parts has them for sale...so does summit but theirs are by size. I've had some not so great issues with CJ so that's not my most favorite place to order from.

If the suction of the pump becomes more than the radiator can flow it will collapse the hose. Here's a screen shot of Ellisons Machine Shop running an engine they currently have for sale in Maryland. Look at that hose sucking in.



This guy is pretty awesome and shares a lot of knowledge. If you have FB join and watch some of his vids.
Click to expand...

yeah that’s definitely no bueno! I probably just reuse the spring, thanks. Long as it comes out in one piece. Ha
 
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