critique my engine build

[5.0Torx]

hello all

Im building up my 5.0 and am getting ready to decide on the cam. from what ive read on the tfs stage 1, its alot like the stock HO cam. Ive also read that the crane 2040 is very good for a balanced power band.

What i want to do with the car / my goals:
Its my dd. No 12 mpg here, fellas. I get about 20 when im good in the city, and 25 highway. I would like to maintain this gas mileage as best i can. As for power, i would like the power peak to happen over 6000 rpm. Ideally, i'd say power peak at 6500 and shift at 7000 in the lower gears. that would make me very happy. Will the good ol 3 inch stroke 302 have zero bottom end if the power peak is that high? I realize ill probably have to come down on the power peak. I would rather have a nice wide power band (an engine that can do everything) at the cost of 20 high end hp, because its my dd. Im also going to stick with the 3.08 rear gears for a while.



What i have:

The car is a 93. Hypereutectic pistons. stock, at 110k miles. is a rebuild necessary here? i would like to try and leave the bottom end alone as this combo should only put out around 280-300 rwhp, which is about 350 flywheel. Not earth shattering.

GT40p heads which im thinking will have to be ported and reworked to fit 1.9 intake and 1.6 exhaust valves. Im assuming a dual pattern cam would still be best, even with the larger exhaust valve.

Exploder intake which im assuming will also have to be ported.

Already have full 2.5" exhaust on the car. bbk shorties, upr catted x, and slp LM1s.

C&L 73 mm MAF.

My understanding is that the gt40p and exploder intake flow about 200 cfm stock, and can be ported to flow about 230-240 cfm. Is that enough to feed a 302 at 7000 rpm? I forget the equation. Will i need 24# injectors?

TIA

 

[BigHairyMonkey]

you will not spin a stock shortblock 302 to 7k rpm.. unless you want a big paperweight.

 

[DrMaxit]

Might I ask, for a street car, why do you want the redline so high? Most of your street driving is done at lower rpms and a low end torque filled car will be more fun on the street if you ask me. And no you definitely don't want to spin a stock bottom that high, as stated above. High rpms is for high horsepower, which you said yourself you only want a ~300rwhp car, not that much, but still fun on the street.

--Chuck

 

[allballsmustang]

you will not spin a stock shortblock 302 to 7k rpm.. unless you want a big paperweight.

+1

id say your going to need to do something much more than stock to hold a bottom end that is going to handle 7000 rpm

 

[v8only]

from my understanding, the tfs 1 cam is more like an e cam than a stock HO cam.

1. 7k is way off. If you're running a stock block, you're not going to want to rev that past 6200ish.

2. P heads won't make power to 7k, even ported. My buddy runs afr 165's, and makes power maybe till 6400 rpms.

3. P heads are difficult to port, and MUST be done by someone who really knows their stuff with p heads. I'd just pick up gt40 heads if you want something to be ported.

My combo is the p heads, stock HO cam, ported explorer intake, and stock 19# injectors. It runs hard, real hard. My bro runs a similar combo, but with regular gt40 heads, unported explorer intake, and a tfs 1 cam. His pulls a little harder, but he's also got a magnaflow x, a tremec 3550 trans he can beat the snot out of, and that cam. With his tfs 1 cam, he makes power to 6k, but not over 6k. With my stock HO cam, I make power perhaps to 5500 rpms.

the stock 19# injectors are plenty in our case. Hell, I'm even running a stock 88lph fuel pump in the tank (which will be swapped out soon...)....if you run with ported heads i'd swap to 24 # injectors.

 

[mazroth]

The car is a 93. Hypereutectic pistons. stock, at 110k miles. is a rebuild necessary here? i would like to try and leave the bottom end alone as this combo should only put out around 280-300 rwhp, which is about 350 flywheel. Not earth shattering.

GT40p heads which im thinking will have to be ported and reworked to fit 1.9 intake and 1.6 exhaust valves. Im assuming a dual pattern cam would still be best, even with the larger exhaust valve.

Exploder intake which im assuming will also have to be ported.

Already have full 2.5" exhaust on the car. bbk shorties, upr catted x, and slp LM1s.

C&L 73 mm MAF.

My understanding is that the gt40p and exploder intake flow about 200 cfm stock, and can be ported to flow about 230-240 cfm. Is that enough to feed a 302 at 7000 rpm? I forget the equation. Will i need 24# injectors?

TIA

To put down a solid 300 at the wheels is easy with a 5 speed..you do have a 5 speed right, or is it an auto?

The P heads with that cam and intake will not make power above 6k. Now, if you changed the cam and intake, and ported the heads, then you could. If your car is a manual, I would keep the P heads, get a mild cleanup and a good valve job, get a good valvetrain put on them, get your lower intake ported by someone like tmoss, then put a custom cam in there, it will be snappy with low end torque, and pull to 6k easily. Though, you may need to change gears help. You will also need a larger than stock tb and meter, and probably some 24s.

If you just bolt on say the P heads and have them cleaned up, bolt on the stock explorer intake with say the tfs1 cam, you will probably get around 270 or so at the wheels, maybe more if lucky. Porting, and matching the parts, then having a custom cam sort it all out will net you more. Also, on the P heads, you shouldnt have to change the valve size.

 

[mazroth]

2. P heads won't make power to 7k, even ported. My buddy runs afr 165's, and makes power maybe till 6400 rpms.

They can make power up that high, if ported correctly and has the right valvetrain on them. You cant choke it with a baby cam and long runner intake either.

 

[Fast63]

all I have to say is don't try for 7000 rpm, just keep it at the most 6000.

 

[5.0Torx]

ok, thanks for the replies guys.

what of the difference between the crane 2040 and the tfs stage 1?

I do need to pass emissions and as stated before, gas mileage is a consideration.

 

[PJC Racing]

If you don't change the valve springs in the heads to match the cam you will not achieve the rpm you want. The stock springs will float.

 

[Fast63]

I do need to pass emissions and as stated before, gas mileage is a consideration.

Then you should just stick with the stock cam. It really is not a bad cam, I was running the E-cam for a while and I prefer the stock one.

 

[Sicarius428]

The TFS stage 1 is not emissions legal. Technically it shouldn't matter since they can't see it but I live in ca and have had both the E and Stage 1 in my car and I wish I left the Stage 1 in there. With your setup I would guess you will make 260-270 to the wheels if you have a 5 speed and 19 lbs injectors will be just fine with that setup.
Kevin

 

[irish]

For porting gt-40s I'd use thumper for sure, I'd recommend having a cam/springs/lifter package from someone like Jay Allen who will make it based on your goals, Ed Curtis could do it, so could Mark McKowen.

Matt

 

[2000xp8]

Few ideas i don't like about that setup.
c&l meters suck
Your rpm hp peak is very unrealistic, more like 5500rpm.
IMO P's are meant for people who plan to run them the way they are, maybe a valve job, but that's about it.
With P heads Valve jobbing, bowl cleanup, porting, milling, and better springs will quickly exceed their valve, and even the value of aluminum heads that make more power box stock. Their a budget oriented head, keep them that way or there is no point using them.
It's just silly to dump a ton of cash into $250 heads.
Headwork local to me costs as follows:
$225 valve job (includes bowl work)
$100 for the springs+whatever the locks and retainer cost.
$100 milling
porting starts at $250
headers are $200, when used shorties are a dime a dozen for $100 or less.
If you ship the heads out to be done, add in $50 shipping each way.

Couple these numbers with the P head value of $250 you would be close to Twisted wedge value when new, used ones you may exceed.

Don't forget either that P heads require P specific headers.

 

[5.0Torx]

why do c&l meters suck?

 

[2000xp8]

why do c&l meters suck?

Unreliable and inaccurate, you will find more negative posts here about them, than positive.
The sampling tube method of metering that C&L incorporates for different injectors makes them even worse.
Use a Pro M or PMAS meter, ya it costs more, but you get more, such as a calibrated sensor and a bigger meter.
Some guys here will stand for the C&L, but no repudable dyno shop would put one on your car.

 

[v8only]

my bro passed cali functional smog with a tfs 1 cam.

 

[Sicarius428]

I would have passed too but I wanted the car to be completely street legal which is my own doing. The stage 1 should pass without a second look. Also good cats make a huge difference.
Kevin