Determining If I Have A Missing Canister Purge Solenoid.

[NoTreadDyl]

Hey guys,

I have been working down a pretty decent list of maintenance and repairs for my 86 and she is running much better.

I am onto code 85 that I got and can't locate my charcoal canister or the canister purge solenoid. I am not sure if I just don't see it or know exactly what it looks like on my car. I have taken a photo below of a clip next to the ECT sensor that is not connected to anything, as well as a photo of a couple disconnected vacuum lines and was wondering if anyone can identify them. The vacuum lines go to a small unit right below the vacuum storage canister.

The car is running better but is back to pushing blue smoke at times when I come to a stop and see it cruising by. It also runs very rich still and it revs are still a little inconsistent. I cleaned my EGR valve and replaced the gasket and it is running much better but I still get one EGR code as well as code 85. Could the missing CANP system be causing these issues?

Thanks as always for any help!

 

[Black1987]

Blue smoke indicates you are burning oil, plausibly rings going bad, Have you done the cylinder balance test? And it doesn't appear that you the canister purge solenoid. See link

https://lmr.com/item/LRS-9915A/1984-98-Canister-Purge-Valve-46-50L

Also, a bunch of helpful information is also on this site
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/#EEC

 

[NoTreadDyl]

Blue smoke indicates you are burning oil, plausibly rings going bad, Have you done the cylinder balance test? And it doesn't appear that you the canister purge solenoid. See link

https://lmr.com/item/LRS-9915A/1984-98-Canister-Purge-Valve-46-50L

Also, a bunch of helpful information is also on this site
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/#EEC

I have done the balance test and all cylinders are good, drives fine too so I am not really leaning to the valve seals or rings at this point, it has been intermittent as well and does not smoke when first started or on acceleration.

I read somewhere that having a missing or non functioning canister purge valve can lead to the car running rich and even smoking, can anyone confirm this? I am basically trying to confirm that it is not even there, and if so, than deciding whether or not I should replace the system, and if I do that, how do I got about it as there are a few lines and things that will need to be matched up.

Thanks for the help, cheers!

 

[General karthief]

Lets see if I can help a little here, the first pic could be one of two things, purg solenoid or the ect, they are in the same harness, if you have a pipe coming out of the intake near there and going down the passenger side of the engine to the heater core there should be a sensor with a plug in similar to that, the plug for you purg canister exits the harness just before that plug. You should have a vacuum line coming from under the upper intake, headed to that plug, the wires from that plug and the vac line go down to the passenger frame rail, the wires plug into a solenoid with the vac line on one side then a vac line from the othere side gos to the canister that is bolted to the frame rail in the corner by the radiator support. There should be another vac line from the canister to the fuel tank.
The other pic may be any number of vac lines in that area, can't tell from the pic.
@jrichker may post a link to vac diagrams. Hope that helps.

 

[Black1987]

I have done the balance test and all cylinders are good, drives fine too so I am not really leaning to the valve seals or rings at this point, it has been intermittent as well and does not smoke when first started or on acceleration.

I read somewhere that having a missing or non functioning canister purge valve can lead to the car running rich and even smoking, can anyone confirm this? I am basically trying to confirm that it is not even there, and if so, than deciding whether or not I should replace the system, and if I do that, how do I got about it as there are a few lines and things that will need to be matched up.

Thanks for the help, cheers!

Like I said it doesn't appear be there. If that line is plugged I would suspect that the other line is vented to atmosphere. When you go to gas pump, is tank pressurized...like does it hiss when you open the cap? Also, if it runs rich it would be black smoke unless there is oil in your gasoline.

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

If you're burning oil your spark plugs will tell you for sure. People seem to forget that reading spark plugs tells you a lot about what's going on inside your engine. Oil also can enter through your intake (from the line at throttle body to oil fill neck) from the PCV system.

 

[General karthief]

Like I said it doesn't appear be there. If that line is plugged I would suspect that the other line is vented to atmosphere. When you go to gas pump, is tank pressurized...like does it hiss when you open the cap? Also, if it runs rich it would be black smoke unless there is oil in your gasoline.

Is the vac line under the front of upper intake plugged, and you don't see a black plastic box with a couple nipples in the corner of the frame rail by the radiator support?
Not sure about it running rich if you don't a purg tank, it does need to have one, look for a black plasic tube where the frame rail and the shock tower meets on the passenger side.

 

[General karthief]

Rich it will be black, oil it will be blue, water/antifreez will be white. Thats been my experience.

 

[General karthief]

That second pic could be your line from gas tank to purge solenoid, see if it reaches forward to the area under your air filter box, should run along frame to within about 8 to 10 inches before rad support. It looks like it continues back under car, right?

 

[NoTreadDyl]

Like I said it doesn't appear be there. If that line is plugged I would suspect that the other line is vented to atmosphere. When you go to gas pump, is tank pressurized...like does it hiss when you open the cap? Also, if it runs rich it would be black smoke unless there is oil in your gasoline.

Well you said you didn't think it was there, not that you it was not for sure. Correct, the other one is vented to the atmosphere, are they suppose to be for the canister purge valve or are they still unidentified? Yes the car did hiss more then one would expect the last time I opened the gas cap, what does this mean?

And yeah its been tough to tell in the rain, I suppose its more black, and does smell rich as can be. Should I look into replacing the canister purge valve system, why would someone remove it to begin with?

Thanks for helping me figure this shi out!

 

[NoTreadDyl]

That second pic could be your line from gas tank to purge solenoid, see if it reaches forward to the area under your air filter box, should run along frame to within about 8 to 10 inches before rad support. It looks like it continues back under car, right?

I will go check out where it goes! The clip in the pic in the first picture is not the ect sensor plug as that is right next to it and plugged into the sensor. So are you confirming the other clip is for the purge solenoid?

Yeah its fuel, its black. Can be hard to tell sometimes on a dark rainy day.

Thanks for the help!

 

[NoTreadDyl]

If you're burning oil your spark plugs will tell you for sure. People seem to forget that reading spark plugs tells you a lot about what's going on inside your engine. Oil also can enter through your intake (from the line at throttle body to oil fill neck) from the PCV system.

Thanks for the input. I actually just noticed yesterday that the crankcase ventilation tube that your referring to from the oil fill neck to throttle body has a 1" crack down it, I taped it for today and am going to replace it later today. I have some vacuum hose laying around, but this tube seams more rigid and different, do you think a vacuum hose will work fine for replacement?

And what do you mean by oil can enter your intake through the PCV system? Is there a missing valve in my system or something? There is a straight tube from oil cap neck to throttle body, is oil literally just going through there into the throttle body, shouldn't it just be vapors and gases?

 

[jrichker]

Code 85 CANP solenoid - The Carbon Canister solenoid is inoperative or missing.

Revised 11 –Jan_2015 to add warning about vacuum leaks due to deteriorated hose or missing caps on vacuum lines when the solenoid is removed.

Check vacuum lines for leaks and cracks. Check electrical wiring for loose connections, damaged wiring and insulation. Check solenoid valve operation by grounding the gray/yellow wire to the solenoid and blowing through it.
The computer provides the ground for the solenoid. The red wire to the solenoid is always energized any time the ignition switch is in the run position.

If you disconnected the carbon canister and failed to properly cap the vacuum line coming from under the upper intake manifold, you will have problems. You will also have problems if the remaining hose coming from under the upper intake manifold or caps for the vacuum line are sucking air.

Charcoal canister plumbing - one 3/8" tube from the bottom of the upper manifold to the rubber hose. Rubber hose connects to one side of the canister solenoid valve. Other side of the solenoid valve connects to one side of the canister. The other side of the canister connects to a rubber hose that connects to a line that goes all the way back to the gas tank. There is an electrical connector coming from the passenger side injector harness near #1 injector that plugs into the canister solenoid valve. It's purpose is to vent the gas tank. The solenoid valve opens at cruse to provide some extra fuel. The canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.

It does not weigh but a pound or so and helps richen up the cruse mixture. It draws no HP & keeps the car from smelling like gasoline in a closed garage. So with all these good things and no bad ones, why not hook it up & use it?


The purge valve solenoid connector is a dangling wire that is near the ECT sensor and oil filler on the passenger side rocker cover. The actual solenoid valve is down next to the carbon canister. There is about 12"-16" of wire that runs parallel to the canister vent hose that comes off the bottom side of the upper intake manifold. That hose connects one port of the solenoid valve; the other port connects to the carbon canister.

The purge valve solenoid should be available at your local auto parts store.

Purge valve solenoid:

The carbon canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.
Carbon Canister:

 

[Black1987]

^^^ This is the information you are looking for.


The hiss indicates the line from the gas tank is clogged, crimped, or plugged.

People remove stuff like this and the EGR stuff because back in the day when everyone wanted it to be a race car they took out stuff they thought the didn't need....like their A/C

Now should you replace it yes, can you car function without yes but not as efficiently and you might have a smell of gasoline.

IMO this shouldn't make it run rich, but what other codes did you have?

 

[Black1987]

 

[General karthief]

Thanks for the input. I actually just noticed yesterday that the crankcase ventilation tube that your referring to from the oil fill neck to throttle body has a 1" crack down it, I taped it for today and am going to replace it later today. I have some vacuum hose laying around, but this tube seams more rigid and different, do you think a vacuum hose will work fine for replacement?

And what do you mean by oil can enter your intake through the PCV system? Is there a missing valve in my system or something? There is a straight tube from oil cap neck to throttle body, is oil literally just going through there into the throttle body, shouldn't it just be vapors and gases?

Filler tube to tb, yes, tb sucks air in the big hole which inturn draws air throught little tube, little tube draws air(vapor) from oil filler tube, stock it looked like a crooked L with two rubber hoses, one on each end, if you have excessive blow by (blue smoke) coming from oil filler tube into tb you have another problem. First get your purg valve/canister replaced/fixed then we can move on from there.
Yes, a vac line will work there, same size as nipples.
Nice diagrams guys, wish I could do that, mine look more like cartoons.

 

[NoTreadDyl]

^^^ This is the information you are looking for.


The hiss indicates the line from the gas tank is clogged, crimped, or plugged.

People remove stuff like this and the EGR stuff because back in the day when everyone wanted it to be a race car they took out stuff they thought the didn't need....like their A/C

Now should you replace it yes, can you car function without yes but not as efficiently and you might have a smell of gasoline.

IMO this shouldn't make it run rich, but what other codes did you have?

Thanks guys, I actually had already printed out that list from Jrichker the day before last but not with the images, so I had no yet confirmed it missing. I have now confirmed I do have the carbon canister but no solenoid. I have located the clip for the solenoid and located the hole in the upper intake manifold which currently has a few inches of hose and a bolt in it. So now all I need to do is get the solenoid, some 3/8 vacuum hose and set it back up. Lordco is over priced as usual, they have two options. One is like the one pictured above with the pigtail but they need to order it. The other option is with the clip built right into or on the solenoid with no wires. This one they have right now and is $100 before my discount. So I just wonder would it be fine to use the one without the wire and just run my vacuum line and the solenoid right close to the clip and all that, heat won't be an issue for this solenoid right?

 

[NoTreadDyl]

Code 85 CANP solenoid - The Carbon Canister solenoid is inoperative or missing.

Revised 11 –Jan_2015 to add warning about vacuum leaks due to deteriorated hose or missing caps on vacuum lines when the solenoid is removed.

Check vacuum lines for leaks and cracks. Check electrical wiring for loose connections, damaged wiring and insulation. Check solenoid valve operation by grounding the gray/yellow wire to the solenoid and blowing through it.
The computer provides the ground for the solenoid. The red wire to the solenoid is always energized any time the ignition switch is in the run position.

If you disconnected the carbon canister and failed to properly cap the vacuum line coming from under the upper intake manifold, you will have problems. You will also have problems if the remaining hose coming from under the upper intake manifold or caps for the vacuum line are sucking air.

Charcoal canister plumbing - one 3/8" tube from the bottom of the upper manifold to the rubber hose. Rubber hose connects to one side of the canister solenoid valve. Other side of the solenoid valve connects to one side of the canister. The other side of the canister connects to a rubber hose that connects to a line that goes all the way back to the gas tank. There is an electrical connector coming from the passenger side injector harness near #1 injector that plugs into the canister solenoid valve. It's purpose is to vent the gas tank. The solenoid valve opens at cruse to provide some extra fuel. The canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.

It does not weigh but a pound or so and helps richen up the cruse mixture. It draws no HP & keeps the car from smelling like gasoline in a closed garage. So with all these good things and no bad ones, why not hook it up & use it?


The purge valve solenoid connector is a dangling wire that is near the ECT sensor and oil filler on the passenger side rocker cover. The actual solenoid valve is down next to the carbon canister. There is about 12"-16" of wire that runs parallel to the canister vent hose that comes off the bottom side of the upper intake manifold. That hose connects one port of the solenoid valve; the other port connects to the carbon canister.

The purge valve solenoid should be available at your local auto parts store.

Purge valve solenoid:

The carbon canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.
Carbon Canister:

So is this the correct way to check the resistance of the sensor? I have two pins as pictured below inserted into the rear of the sensor clip with it plugged in ?

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

I'm getting ready to pull my engine and removed all the front accessories and saw my charcoal canister and purge solenoid and remembered this thread so I took a couple pictures for you. Hope this helps.

 

[General karthief]

Nice pics, hope he see's them.
Now wash them hands and have a beer!