Dont let your friends drive your cars!!!!

FastDriver · Dec 27, 2008

You guys are making it out like the OP is trying to get over on his buddy. I didn't see him say anything of the sort. It sounds like he's just trying to get what it takes to make his car run right again. If the 351 goes in, it may even save them both money.

Still, I think he should diagnose the problem on his 5.0 first.

Chris

BK_CAULEY · Dec 27, 2008

the driver offered to pay for it. and he isnt building a stroker. he is gonna clean up a 351 shortblock he got from me. and will is gonna help him get the parts to do it. who the hell said he was building a stroker motor?

MAC'n89Blckstng · Dec 27, 2008

2.3 Turbo FTW!

BK_CAULEY · Dec 27, 2008

MAC'n89Blckstng said:
2.3 Turbo FTW!

NO then i will have to listen to him complain about head gaskets every 5 minutes. LOL

nick6690 · Dec 27, 2008

when i let my best friend drive my car for the first time he had his foot on the gas to the floor instead of the break when he started it up and revved the piss out of it. i dont think it did anything but it dont matter because im rebuilding my engine right now.

oh and i voted for the 351.

Makdaddymac · Dec 27, 2008

dude make him replace what you got end of story or tell him hey that engine was worth such and such $$$(be honest) see what he says take the money and build from there.

ID89GT · Dec 28, 2008

351. If your gonna start building something, might as well start on that. You'll have to buy pretty much all the same upgrades as you would for the 5.0, and have more powerr in the long run. Plus a stronger block than the 5.0

stykthyn · Dec 28, 2008

I'd check the valvetrain. I'm betting he bent a few pushrods(ask me how I know)

if you decide to yank the motor though, there is no reason not to go 351

muh'stang · Dec 28, 2008

i voted 351w too, since you have one already ($0)...and as far as I understand the shortblock needs nothing ($0)..
Someone suggested building a 347...and I have to wonder why in the world a guy with a 351w would build a 302 into a 347...actually i cant understand a 347 in any mustang circumstance, cuz for the same money you could have a 393. but anyway yeah go with the 351w.

Gearbanger 101 · Dec 28, 2008

muh'stang said:
i voted 351w too, since you have one already ($0)...and as far as I understand the shortblock needs nothing ($0)..
Someone suggested building a 347...and I have to wonder why in the world a guy with a 351w would build a 302 into a 347...actually i cant understand a 347 in any mustang circumstance, cuz for the same money you could have a 393. but anyway yeah go with the 351w.

Well...100lbs off the front end of the car is a nice reason. Unless he's planning on running a tubular K-member and A-arms, he's going to add a lot of weight to the nose. It won't affect acceleration so much, since the added torque of the 351W will make up the difference, but there’s going to be a noticeable difference in the way the car brakes and handles.

Also, a 347 rotating assembly will be more "rev friendly" because of its lighter rotational mass. I'll allow you to get to the top end of the tach quicker all while still providing great low end torque.

Finally, the need for new mounts, headers, oil pan, etc, etc don't exist when you stick with the original block. That leaves a good portion of the money one would spend just trying to install the 351W, for putting towards the stroker rotating assembly for the 302W.

If one wanted to go for maximum displacement and didn’t put so much faith into stopping and handling as they did into strait line acceleration, but if you’re happy with the potential to make 400-450hp all while maintaining stock over all drivability, the stroked 302W might be better suited for you?

BK_CAULEY · Dec 28, 2008

Gearbanger 101 said:
Well...100lbs off the front end of the car

i have weighed a 302 short block and a 351 shortblock on a shipping scale and there was a 23 lb difference.

and slow95gt has a manual rack no PS pump or lines, no ac stuff, coil overs and tubular a arms so he has already cut alot of weight off the front.

Gearbanger 101 · Dec 28, 2008

BK_CAULEY said:
i have weighed a 302 short block and a 351 shortblock on a shipping scale and there was a 23 lb difference.

and slow95gt has a manual rack no PS pump or lines, no ac stuff, coil overs and tubular a arms so he has already cut alot of weight off the front.

The difference in weight between a long block302W (460lbs) and a long block 351W (525lbs) are Ford offical specs. Misclilaneous swap parts, plus differences various components of the EFI systm, as well as emmisions and bracketry parts have shown as much as a 90lbs between the two by comparison. So 100lbs is a bit of an exagerationd, but the average figure is probably closer to 75-80lbs. Still quite a distinctive difference none the less....enough to affect handling a braking.

While its true that aluminum heads on the 351W will make a huge difference in over all weight, bringing it back down to 302W levels, those same heads knock the just as much weight from the heft of the 302 as well.

and again....if power levels in and around the 500-550hp range (around the factory 302W failure limit) is your only goal, why bother adding any weight to the front end of you car at all, or expense to the swap with the bigger engine?

martyd · Dec 28, 2008

It really dont seem like that big of a deal(the weight) after you add a set of aluminum heads and a set of lighter aftermarket headers. That has to account for atleast 100lbs doesn't it?

Gearbanger 101 · Dec 28, 2008

martyd said:
It really dont seem like that big of a deal(the weight) after you add a set of aluminum heads and a set of lighter aftermarket headers. That has to account for atleast 100lbs doesn't it?

Read the second last paragraph in my previous post.

If someone wanted to duplicate the weight of a stock 302W with a 351W, they could easily do so.....I don't contest that. But anyone who's going to stroke a 302 is going to add a set of aluminum heads into the mix as well (it would be a waste of time not to). So now you've got a 331 or 347 or whatever that boasts the increased cubic inches and lessens the weight to boot. Win, win in my book.

Not only have you increased horsepower and torque to the power train, but you've lightened the front end considerably, which is nearly as important in strait line acceleration. And should the car be being set up as a daily driver, with the decreased heft up front you might inadvertently build a pretty decent handler that actually has the ability to slow down and stop on part with other sports cars in its class too.

Again, I'm not against a 351W swap, I just think it’s an unnecessary expense and amount of work for someone who's not planning on making in any more horsepower/torque than the stock 302W block will handle.

foxmustangman · Dec 29, 2008

I would 351 the hell out of that thing! Just imo

FastDriver · Dec 29, 2008

I stuck with a 302W when I could've gone to a 351 b/c turbocharged a 302 can make huge power - to the point that I've already got more than I can put down on the street. Also, I like have a very dimensionally compact motor because it means that it'll be easier to put into other vehicles in the future. With a bullet proof short block that should last forever, that's a plus to me.

351Ws are awesome in a street car, though. I'm definitely all for building a bigger cube car for the street if it's going to run you the same coin, though.

Chris

RedFox5.0 · Dec 29, 2008

My 2 friends (brothers to each other) like driving my 98 GT. I only let them drive it because they are very good drivers,,,

,,well, that and I get to beat on their cars, 05 STi and 04 350z :-D

I voted for 351w.

I handed the 350z kid the keys and said go do a 2nd gear burnout :-/

Every they drive my car I'm the one saying GO FASTER!

dcurtis · Dec 29, 2008

How good of friends are they, all of my friends know that I do not in any way hot rod my car, if one of them did I would literally kick his arse before he let off of the gas. and all of my friends know this which is why they drive my car(when I let them) like it was theirs. And build a 351 this time

Dont let your friends drive your cars!!!!

what to do with the engine?

rebuild ole 5 liter

351w time

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

BK_CAULEY

it's built for speed not longevity, woman

MAC'n89Blckstng

Active Member

BK_CAULEY

it's built for speed not longevity, woman

nick6690

Member

Makdaddymac

New Member

ID89GT

stykthyn

I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.

muh'stang

If I were rich, I'd make sure all the scoops on my

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

BK_CAULEY

it's built for speed not longevity, woman

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

martyd

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Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

foxmustangman

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FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

RedFox5.0

New Member

dcurtis

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Dont let your friends drive your cars!!!!

what to do with the engine?

rebuild ole 5 liter

351w time

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

it's built for speed not longevity, woman

Active Member

it's built for speed not longevity, woman

Member

New Member

I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.

If I were rich, I'd make sure all the scoops on my

Straight Outta Locash

it's built for speed not longevity, woman

Straight Outta Locash

New Member

Straight Outta Locash

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I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

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