Forced induction question???

[Gearbanger 101]

Compromise: Roots type/Manual trans, which is precisely why the GT500 comes with the roots style...it is a compromise car. Heat soak less w/roots, torque more than centri.

I'm not sure what you mean by "compromise"? If by that you mean they aren't willing to "sacrafice" reliability, durability and longevity for performance, then I guess yes, the Eaton is a compromise.

TVS: designed for lower compression pistions in GT500 (double digit boost). GT is high compression engine, stay with blowers designed for this.

For stock pistons/drivetrain stay with single digit boost. Double digit boost will stress stock bottom end and drivetrain.

All blowers will effectively increase the static compression ratio. That's the point of forced induction. If breaking the bottom end due to too much compression is a concern, you can always dial the boost back with pulley size. The 3rd Generation Eaton-up and TV series are probably the blowers the most desirable if that is the case.

Dialing back the pulley size on a centrifugal will produce the desired results, but have will have a negative effect on the power curve. Torque and horsepower will ramp up slower and later than in would with a properly sized pulley.

Doing the same thing to a Twin Screw doesn't hurt low end torque productions so much (because of its Positive Displacement nature) but twin screws aren’t happy unless they’re spinning hard! Because of their typical 1.35 internal compression ratio, running a Twin-Screw compressor (especially of the larger variety) below its efficiency level like that actually increases discharge temperatures, which is nearly as bad as running excessive boost to begin with. Heat can be controlled with intercooling though, but cruising temps are still higher regardless.

3rd, 4th and 5th Generation Eaton’s although unhappy when being spun hard are actually more efficient than either the centrifugal or the twin screw at slower speeds. They still move plenty of air down low so torque and horsepower don’t suffer, but since they don’t compress the air, excess heat isn’t a problem.

Like the earlier Eatons, the same can be said for the TVS. No internal compression takes place within the unit itself (unlike a Twin-Screw) nor is the air being compressed under normal driving conditions (also unlike a Twin-screw). Flow rates and efficiency levels and with them discharge temperatures are improved over the standard Eaton, which will allow a drop in blower speed, without the negative effects of the other two blowers.

 

[JiXeRz GT]

So what you're saying is that a TV series is more efficient??? Am I correct?

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Of the current offering of positive displacement blowers, it seems to be...yes.

.....but that's not to say any of the others would be a bad choice. I don't think you'll be disappointed with any of the top brands. Buy the kit based on your driving style, and budget. If you want to see more of your power in the upper end of the power band, go with one of the Centrifugals. If you want to make for a fun street car, where the majority of the attention is being placed on the bottom end of the power curve, go with one of the suggested Positive Displacement blowers.

Considering 90% of your driving is street oriented and is more often than not going to be at cruise, low and moderate throttle operation (where Positive Displacement blowers shine) as opposed to WOT operation (where you need to be in order to realize the full benefit of a Centrifugal supercharger), combined with the average curb weight of the S197 being a little on the “portly” side to begin with, my money would be spent on the TVS....but then its not my money you’re spending.

 

[Black GT500]

Having more power than traction...

Having a GT500 with more power than traction, if I were building a 4.6 GT for the drag strip, I would have to seriously look at a Centrifugal blower Procharger/Vortech or a turbocharger setup. That way you could build as much or more power than the Roots/Twin Screw Supercharger only up higher in the RPM range, after you have obtained some traction and are already moving…

But other than straight drag racing, I vote for the 5th generation Roots/Twin Screw/ TVS…

Roots/Twin Screw/TVS Supercharger MASSIVE POWER off idle, more heat, less traction.
Centrifugal blower Procharger/Vortech less power off idle, less heat, more traction.
Turbo charging certainly has turbo lag but also the least parasitic loss, more traction.

 

[JiXeRz GT]

Of the current offering of positive displacement blowers, it seems to be...yes.

.....but that's not to say any of the others would be a bad choice. I don't think you'll be disappointed with any of the top brands. Buy the kit based on your driving style, and budget. If you want to see more of your power in the upper end of the power band, go with one of the Centrifugals. If you want to make for a fun street car, where the majority of the attention is being placed on the bottom end of the power curve, go with one of the suggested Positive Displacement blowers.

Considering 90% of your driving is street oriented and is more often than not going to be at cruise, low and moderate throttle operation (where Positive Displacement blowers shine) as opposed to WOT operation (where you need to be in order to realize the full benefit of a Centrifugal supercharger), combined with the average curb weight of the S197 being a little on the “portly” side to begin with, my money would be spent on the TVS....but then its not my money you’re spending.

Having a GT500 with more power than traction, if I were building a 4.6 GT for the drag strip, I would have to seriously look at a Centrifugal blower Procharger/Vortech or a turbocharger setup. That way you could build as much or more power than the Roots/Twin Screw Supercharger only up higher in the RPM range, after you have obtained some traction and are already moving…

But other than straight drag racing, I vote for the 5th generation Roots/Twin Screw/ TVS…

Roots/Twin Screw/TVS Supercharger MASSIVE POWER off idle, more heat, less traction.
Centrifugal blower Procharger/Vortech less power off idle, less heat, more traction.
Turbo charging certainly has turbo lag but also the least parasitic loss, more traction.

You two guys are very hulpful! I think I'm gonna go with the Roush TVS!!! Just gotta buy the car now. And plan out all the other stuff I'm gonna be doing!

 

[mustangdave]

I read an article in MM&FF that stated they RECOMMEND internal engine upgrades for TVS, so apparently it is really pushing the limits of the stock block. Maximum power is no good if your rods go through the side of the block.

 

[RKW]

You two guys are very hulpful! I think I'm gonna go with the Roush TVS!!! Just gotta buy the car now. And plan out all the other stuff I'm gonna be doing!

TVS was designed for GT500 or built motor with lower compression. Otherwise, wait for new pulley that takes boost down to single digit for stock motor. Standard Eaton (roushcharger) is a better choice for stock high compression motor.

Make it simple:

Roush P51 compression ratio: 8.6:1
GT500 compression ratio: 8.4:1
GT compression ratio: 9.8:1

TVS boost level: 15 psi
Stock GT500 Eaton boost level: 9 psi
Roush M90 boost level: 5psi (w/73 mm pulley)

Why would anyone put 15 psi boost on a 9.8:1 stock block? That is asking for trouble IMHO. If you "de-tune" a TVS to take boost down to single digit, does that take it out of its "sweet spot"? It would give you plenty of headroom if you decide to build a motor later I guess. Does anyone make a larger pulley for the TVS system yet?

By "compromise", I meant that a GT500 with the roots type blower is equally at home on the dragstrip/street for those who want lots of low end torque, as well as a road course where heat soak will be less of an issue that with a TS type blower because the air is not being compressed. Roush Trak Pak mustang also validates how a roots type blower can be good on a road course.

I second the point that a centri makes a lot of sense from a "driveability" standpoint, especially with street tires. TS is more for fun that practical use unless you have DRs/slicks.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

If one were really afraid of the boost offered by the TVS and wasn't able to find a larger blower pulley to tame it down a bit, a very simple and cost effective solution would be to add a set of under drive pulleys to the mix. Not only would you then effectively slow the blower speed down (dropping manifold pressure) but you'd also gain the benefit of lowering the parasitic drag from the accessories and might even pick up the fuel mileage a little.

Keep in mind too, that you can also bleed off a little pressure up top by adjusting the bypass valve. Much like you would with a turbo waste gate.

 

[NastyStang113]

I read an article in MM&FF that stated they RECOMMEND internal engine upgrades for TVS, so apparently it is really pushing the limits of the stock block. Maximum power is no good if your rods go through the side of the block.

Did you see the guys list of mods that he wants? The guy wants balls to the walls.

 

[JiXeRz GT]

Did you see the guys list of mods that he wants? The guy wants balls to the walls.

Indeed I do! Lol! Do any of you guys think it would be best to go with a DSS Racing short block???

 

[Gearbanger 101]

That's a silly question. Of course a built short block is going to be better than a stocker. Although unless you plan on pushing the envelope, I don't think it’s really at this point a necessity. If you’ve got future plans of abuse down the line though, a built short block is nice to have sooner than later. Just think of having to do all the labour of pulling the engine and ripping it apart a second time a year or two after your blower install.

 

[walter]

I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject but I find that the self contained oiling feature of some centrifugal superchargers (paxton and ati come to mind) is a very neat feature that will simplify greatly any install by any garage mechanic. In addition you won't be starving the engine to "feed" the supercharger its needed oil and will be less likely to need an oilcooler to keep that engine oil fresh.

 

[anthony05gt]

I just read that couple of month old article on the TVS which supplied some decent details on the unit. It does look pretty efficient. I'm particularly impressed with the inlet design.

I still think this is going to be the next big thing though.> New Techco 3L Supercharger - ModularFords.com

 

[stangzilla100]

Three Valve Eaton TVS Supercharger Install - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine

check out this article. i just skimmed thru it, and i think it said 8 psi. but i also remember reading the dyno numbers in another article and they came out w/ something around 470/450 i think.

 

[Five Oh Brian]

I second the point that a centri makes a lot of sense from a "driveability" standpoint, especially with street tires. TS is more for fun that practical use unless you have DRs/slicks.

I don't know nearly enough about which blower is best, but I have to wonder if any of the dyno #'s really mean squat in the real world. Dyno's are great tuning tools, but what are the monster blowers doing in the real world for drivability and track performance???

My Vortech V-2 doesn't put down big #'s on the dyno (351 rwhp & 304 rwtq), but it posts great #'s at the dragstrip for such a lightly modded car. 100% stock motor, exhaust, and suspension, etc.. Only mods are non-intercooled standard Vortech V-2, 4.10 gears, and a stall converter to launch harder. On drag radials, my heavy, well-optioned automatic GT ran a 12.34 @ 111.93 mph 2 days ago, followed by a 12.33 @ 110.59 mph the same day. And icing on the cake is 24+ mpg on the freeway on cruise control.

I've seen plenty of guys with bigger/better/costlier blowers at the track that aren't going much (if any) faster than my car. The guys that are going 11's or better have very, very highly modded cars that are questionably streetable.

 

[stangzilla100]

sorry didnt read the article very well, the numbers for this article were 546/549
2008 Ford Mustang Roush Eaton Dyno Photo

 

[stangzilla100]

I don't know nearly enough about which blower is best, but I have to wonder if any of the dyno #'s really mean squat in the real world. Dyno's are great tuning tools, but what are the monster blowers doing in the real world for drivability and track performance???

My Vortech V-2 doesn't put down big #'s on the dyno (351 rwhp & 304 rwtq), but it posts great #'s at the dragstrip for such a lightly modded car. 100% stock motor, exhaust, and suspension, etc.. Only mods are non-intercooled standard Vortech V-2, 4.10 gears, and a stall converter to launch harder. On drag radials, my heavy, well-optioned automatic GT ran a 12.34 @ 111.93 mph 2 days ago, followed by a 12.33 @ 110.59 mph the same day. And icing on the cake is 24+ mpg on the freeway on cruise control.

I've seen plenty of guys with bigger/better/costlier blowers at the track that aren't going much (if any) faster than my car. The guys that are going 11's or better have very, very highly modded cars that are questionably streetable.

those are great times. that goes to show you that driver mod is very important too.

 

[Five Oh Brian]

those are great times. that goes to show you that driver mod is very important too.

Driver mod? I just stick it in drive and hammer it on the last amber. I think my wife could run 12.30's in my car at this point. Now if it were a manual transmission, then the driver mod is uber-critical.

 

[anthony05gt]

Post deleted as spam

That's pretty wild. This is the system to watch.

 

[stangzilla100]

especially w/ the whipple price increase more people will be looking for a cheaper TS. if i didnt get my whipple before the price increase i would be considering this SC.