h/c/i and bolt on ?'s

A 65 or 70mm throttle body will work perfect for you combo.

If your getting bigger injectors (24lbers) you will NEED a new MAF (or recalibrate it if you already have an aftermarket one). You will need it to run properly...

Good Luck

small hijack... but how would a h/c/i run w/ 4.10s?

deadlast said:

small hijack... but how would a h/c/i run w/ 4.10s?

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GREAT!, I bolted on Edelbrock performer RPMII heads and intake with E303 cam and 4.10 gears. car was really quick and fun to drive. I am probably bolting on same upgrades to my current car.

ready for 5spdgt to get mad....??

go with a 75mm t-body. since your going to get a 75mm bullet (most likely), why would you go with a smaller throttle body and restrict the air?

i am a fan of edelbrock parts too. You can run the 24s and a 70mm t-body now if you want to.

deadlast: 4.10s a great gear.

88GTStreetRod said:

GREAT!, I bolted on Edelbrock performer RPMII heads and intake with E303 cam and 4.10 gears. car was really quick and fun to drive. I am probably bolting on same upgrades to my current car.

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did you switch to 24 lb injectors? or stock 19's - do you consider the injectors a performance mod? does changing them gain hp or speed or efficiency?

N8Miller said:

ready for 5spdgt to get mad....??

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Why would I get mad? Were talking about stangs aren't we

N8Miller said:

go with a 75mm t-body. since your going to get a 75mm bullet (most likely), why would you go with a smaller throttle body and restrict the air?

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No a 75mm TB is not needed and a waste. The throttle body can be used as a point of velocity. So many say the main velocity is made in the lower intake specs but if you look at the Performer vs. Performer RPM guess what is the difference: The UPPER intake and when people have swapped they lost low end torque for some higher end horsepower. So it isn't just in lower intake. The throttle body goes "inline" with the runners of the upper intake.

To the original poster...a 65mm or 70mm TB will flow PLENTY for your combo and you will be less likely to see the problems that a bigger throttle body like a 75mm can cause (part throttle bucking/loss of torque down low/loss of throttle response).

Michael Yount, Tmoss, MustangDaren all have experience with the velocity theory. They suggest that the 65-70's are a better choice and do the job nicely. Mustangdaren switched back from a 75mm TB to a 70mm TB because he didn't like the loss of response he got with the 75mm TB. Tmoss ports upper/lower intakes and knows what he is talking about. I have had personal experience with the throttle bodies. My friend had a 75mm TB on his car and he experienced those symptoms above. He swapped back to the "smaller" size and waaallllllaaaa...it was gone.

Paul (killercanary) runs 112.51mph with his 65mm FMS TB in a 3600lb sn95 vert with a 302 h/c/i (N/A)...so it isn't slowing him down

N8Miller said:

deadlast: 4.10s a great gear.

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For what? The track?

Go with 373's so it will be more daily driver friendly and if you get boost/nitrous later you won't run out of gear at the track and you will have less traction problems. Some that have actually had both gears were slower at the track with 410's over 373's and some also claimed no seat of the pants difference.

I run 2400 rpm at 70mph (I have 373's) so I don't know how the 410's could run lower

Here is how I look at when picking gears for a daily driver...To me the gearing of 410's or steeper on a daily driver is not worth it to me...you get worse gas mileage/more engine wear/and use your shifting components more (clutch/trans/etc)...around town...and I also look at it like this...when your cruising on the highway at 80mph (interstate) your cruising at roughly 3000rpm with 410's...that is HALF your 302's revving capabilities and that is in the overdrived 5th gear at CRUISE...not at WOT...I personally don't like the idea of having half the engines revving capabilities at just cruise. Also...what if an emergency comes up and you got to "get it"...you have to be there for someone or are running to the hospital...and running higher than 80mph...maybe running 4500rpm steadily (faster than 80mph of course)...during that emergency I don't think that would be a good time for your engine to let go on you...what do you think?

Then you have to factor in 410's or steeper cause my engine braking at higher rpms on the highway...go pull out somewhere and hold your car to 2500rpm or so (worse with gears) and feel the engine try to slow you down when you let off the gas...same similar occurance happens on the highway/interstate plus the wind resistance.

I know when I had the slipping clutch problem I could smell the clutch burn at a higher rpm cruise which in my case was comparing 2000rpm to 2500rpm. At the lower rpm I didn’t smell it but the higher rpm I could smell it. Just some things to think about when you think you want every little tenth out of your car (4:10’s)…I prefer a better overall performance personally…

Go 373's...I would rather want more (373's to 410's) than get to much (410's) and want less (373's)...get what I'm saying...

5spd, i have that me and you have debated the whole throttle body sizing a few times.... all in good fun.

why is a 75mm bullet a waste?

the driver didnt say what the 4.10s would be used for.

again, with 4.10s and 245/45/17 tires, i run 73mph at 2350 rpms. remember i have a ticket to prove it

5spd GT said:

No a 75mm TB is not needed and a waste. The throttle body can be used as a point of velocity. So many say the main velocity is made in the lower intake specs but if you look at the Performer vs. Performer RPM guess what is the difference: The UPPER intake and when people have swapped they lost low end torque for some higher end horsepower. So it isn't just in lower intake. The throttle body goes "inline" with the runners of the upper intake.

To the original poster...a 65mm or 70mm TB will flow PLENTY for your combo and you will be less likely to see the problems that a bigger throttle body like a 75mm can cause (part throttle bucking/loss of torque down low/loss of throttle response).

Michael Yount, Tmoss, MustangDaren all have experience with the velocity theory. They suggest that the 65-70's are a better choice and do the job nicely. Mustangdaren switched back from a 75mm TB to a 70mm TB because he didn't like the loss of response he got with the 75mm TB. Tmoss ports upper/lower intakes and knows what he is talking about. I have had personal experience with the throttle bodies. My friend had a 75mm TB on his car and he experienced those symptoms above. He swapped back to the "smaller" size and waaallllllaaaa...it was gone.

Paul (killercanary) runs 112.51mph with his 65mm FMS TB in a 3600lb sn95 vert with a 302 h/c/i (N/A)...so it isn't slowing him down

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N8Miller said:

5spd, i have that me and you have debated the whole throttle body sizing a few times.... all in good fun.

Click to expand...

Yep.

N8Miller said:

why is a 75mm bullet a waste?

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I never said that...I was talking about the throttle body sizing (it is not needed). I have a 75mm Pro-M Bullet MAF...

N8Miller said:

the driver didnt say what the 4.10s would be used for.

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Correct, but I like to give pros and cons...not just the pros and get convienent amnesia on the cons...

N8Miller said:

again, with 4.10s and 245/45/17 tires, i run 73mph at 2350 rpms. remember i have a ticket to prove it

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When cops have pulled me over they have exaggereted numbers...

I run 2400rpm with 373's with 245/50/16's at 70mph...so how are you lower

The stock speedo isn't accurate even with 2.73 gears. The "fix" gears that go on the speedo cable to calibrate your speedo for the new rear gears are even more innacurate.

Stock tire is 225 50's You have 245 50's, so your wheel is infact moving slower because the sidewall is taller. This will result in a slightler slower mph reading on your speedo.

Homeboy is running 245/45's His might be the same sidewall as a 225/50, it might be smaller, it might still be bigger, i'm too lazy to do the numbers.

Either way, your comparing innacurate figures, so don't sweat a few hundred rpm.

i cant explain the tires/rpm ranges, thats just way it is. If you go to a taller tire, the RPM range goes down.... just as it would if you went from a 26" to a 28" slick.
my bad on the bullet.
I have forgot the cons of the 4.10s, i just prefer them. Each driver has his own likes/dislikes. no matter what we tell them, they have to make the choice.

I doubt that the cop pulled me over was exagerating, but im sure that the red mustang going down the highway didnt help.

at what point should paul go to a larger throttle body? also, some people just get ridiculous on their parts going "too big." you have to keep in mind that some people dont know jack about parts and want what they hear about on the net.... hence internet racers.

you go a larger TB when the cfm behind it on 3 cylinders or more (meaning, what is the flow of one cylinder's intake, past the valve, through the lower intake, through the upper intake, up to where the TB bolts on, measure that CFM) exceeds the cmf capacity of your TB. ((That CFM x 3 = a little more CFM than you need for your TB))
Disclamer: Yes that is my own little personal formula, I didn't grab it from somewhere else. If anybody wants to know why, PM me. It's a long topic that I'll spare the casual reader.

I'm w/ 5 spd on the TB thing; I have a book with dyno numbers and I've posted them before, but you can go too big and start to lose horsepower. I think 65 or 70 would be fine. You could maybe find some 24 lb injectors and a properly calibrated MAF in the classifieds or ebay and save some cash.

N8Miller said:

at what point should paul go to a larger throttle body? also, some people just get ridiculous on their parts going "too big." you have to keep in mind that some people dont know jack about parts and want what they hear about on the net.... hence internet racers.

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There was a thread about 2 months ago were ironically me and 5 spd were agruing

I had recommendd Paul (killercanary) swap to a 75mm tb for that extra umph for the 11's. Ed Curtis chimed in and quoted me saying "Yup, holley 75mm tb and a fox tb conversion" That made me smaile seeing a big dawg quote me and agreeing with me/saying im right

Paul Perreca said:

did you switch to 24 lb injectors? or stock 19's - do you consider the injectors a performance mod? does changing them gain hp or speed or efficiency?

Click to expand...

I had 24 lbs injectors already on the car. I really do not know how much they helped. I would had them and a high flow fuel pump.

Grn92LX said:

There was a thread about 2 months ago were ironically me and 5 spd were agruing

I had recommendd Paul (killercanary) swap to a 75mm tb for that extra umph for the 11's. Ed Curtis chimed in and quoted me saying "Yup, holley 75mm tb and a fox tb conversion" That made me smaile seeing a big dawg quote me and agreeing with me/saying im right

Click to expand...

Actually I don't think he "quoted" you...but he said he wanted Paul to go with a Holley 75mm TB and upgrade to a bigger cam (along with the FTB conversion) to help him get that elusive 11 second timeslip. He was strickly talking about "track" gains...not street manners...

He told me (as I have stated MANY times) for the better track times to go with the 75mm TB but he said the 65mm TB I have is just fine

For clarification, Ed DID quote me in that thread. No reason to disagree. He quoted me twice actually in that thread