H/C/I Combo advice and possible numbers?

[MusPuppis]

I know this question and a few of its derivitives get posted pretty often so I did a search but didnt come up with what I was needing. So if this exact thing has been covered before I apologize but I was unable to find it.

Anyway,

A friend of mine is looking to start a little 5.0 Project here in the near future and we're trying to get the basics down and a plan in front of us for the buildup. Barreling into something not knowing where your going to end up has never been a good idea.

So, I wanted to come here and run some info past some of the experienced Stangers and get their input on the H/C/I combo we're considering and what they thought the numbers might be when its all done and tuned properly.

Ok, first let me say the budget is limited. Were looking into the 1500-1700$ dollar range.

The H/C/I we were looking at was,

Stock Heads: Port Matched, Ported and Polished up. Upgraded Valve Springs.
Cam: E303
Intake: GT40/Cobra

What I really wanted to know about that is; Will the E303 matched to ported stock heads with upgraded valve springs be ok or will the cam be over-kill? Also, would we have to upgrade the rockers and all or will the springs be sufficient? The reason I ask is the 1500 or so budget we have has to do alot more than just the H/C/I so were trying to keep costs down as much as possible by using what we have when its ok to do so. Were not looking to cut any corners but before we go throwing money at anything we want to make good and sure its being thrown for good reason. =]

Now, on to the numbers question.

What kind of power do you think this would make?

.40 over fresh bottom end. Keith Black HypoLite Pistons
Ported stock E7's, 3 angle valve job, better valve springs
E303
GT40 upper and lower,
70mm TB/MAF
CAI
Shorty style headers
offroad xpipe

And what times could he expect assuming traction? Lets assume the car is a 90 GT, stock rims, new tires, 4.10's and 5 speed.



Thanks guys and sorry to slam so many vague questions into this post. Just trying to get a blueprint in front of us as to what parts and work must be done and what we could expect when were done.

 

[manpowermustang]

I dont have any times but just wanna say this sounds like me when I first started to do my motor. I said 2000.00, and well 6000.00 later I wish I could kill him, and so does my wife lol.

 

[90mustangGT]

Thumper E7's with valve spring upgrade $700
TMOSS ported lower intake $130
TFS, E or B cam $140-170
So that's a H/C/I combo for around $1000-1100

You still have $500-400 for other mods.

 

[5spd GT]

You still have $500-400 for other mods.

Gaskets/tools/MAF/injectors...

 

[90mustangGT]

Gaskets/tools/MAF/injectors...

The injectors with that combo I listed would be fine. Yeah, gaskets and other materials will run over $100, tools I am assuming they already have. Definatly a bigger MAF and TB would be needed to let the system to breathe.

 

[MusPuppis]

Yeah, I have all the tools that would be needed. We also have all the gaskets and such that we'd be needing. Already have a full engine gasket set bought from Fel-Pro.

I'm glad someone posted on the fuel injectors. I forget, heh. I was hoping we wouldnt need to upgrade to 24# or anything. I have a nice sub 1000mile set of 19#ers in my garage.

I'm curious though, would home ported stock heads be enough for an e303 cam? The Thumpers look great but 700$ for them isnt in the budget I dont think. The 1500 has to get the intake, gears, maf, TB, cam, new valve springs etc etc.

If you all dont think home ported will be sufficient though then of course I'll take your advice and see what i can do about getting some Thumpers and just holding off on some other aspect of the car for a while.

 

[90_Red_LX]

If I was in his shoes, I would hold onto my money until I could do what I want without having to "cheap out." You can get a trick flow h/c/i package for 2099 from summit racing. Cheaping out on some Thumper heads isn't good, sounds like your trying to cut corners. TMOSS has good lower intake ports I hear. I'd go bigger than a e303 cam though, but do what you want. But it sounds to me like your trying to squeeze too much out of a too small budget.

 

[MusPuppis]

He isnt trying to cheap out at all. We're just trying to make the most of what we have. The budget for this project is small and I know that if you want big power, you need big money.. But we arent after big power or anything. We're just trying to make the most of the money he has to spend which is a max of 1500-1700$. Which is why I'm trying to figure out the best possible solution for the heads. Home porting + better valve springs is about 200$ vs the 700-1500$ pricetag of a whole new set. Of course the home porting job, no matter how good I am, wont come close to a real set of aftermarket heads but the gains should still be in the 15-20hp range if done right.. and Im a fair hand with a rotary tool.

Also, we're looking into going with the E303 because Ive heard nothing but good things about it and given the somewhat "light" nature of the mods being performed I thought it would match up fairly well.

I appreciate the advice though. I'm looking into the H/C/I combo you mentioned.

I'm still wondering though, will home ported E7's work with an E303 or is that just a complete waste of time? If it is then we'll have to look into Thumpers or the other H/C/I combo mentioned but again, I need to exhuast all other routes before we commit to a specific plan of action.

 

[281pony]

my cousin had that setup in a 306 stroker.

home ported e7's, e-cam, 1.6 rockers, ported cobra intake. it was a nice street setup, started pulling hard right at 2k.

if your comfortable porting, go for it and save the money. the e-cam with 1.6 rockers lifts just over .500. my cousin actually kept his stock springs and was ok.

home porting ? 200 you said
e-cam 150-200
cobra intake 200-400
rockers 100-200

then keep a new oil pump, oil pump shaft, waterpump, timing chain, lifters, pushrods, anything along those lines that might need to be replaced. otherwards that puts you at 1000 or less for the full h/c/i setup. i found my edelbrock heads ported, with a matching performer rpm intake for under 900 shipped to my door. just have to watch or know what your definately sticking to or you will search forever.

 

[MusPuppis]

Excellent and thanks very much.

He recently bought a very nice short block we'll be using for the build and it came with pretty much everything we need. Gonna have to get head bolts, lifters and the like though.

Anyway, much appreciated man. I cant wait to get started on this.. Should be a fun couple of months.

Also.. I looked at that H/C/I from Summit.. Wholey crap that thing is nice. I think I found what I'll be buying when it comes time to upgrade my truck a little.. =]

 

[281pony]

good luck with it.

which h/c/i combo? the tfs?

 

[MusPuppis]

Yeah, the Trick Flow one. I dont care for the way the upper intake looks, but I'll get over that. Looks like a hell of a combo to me. Of course, the h/c/i on my engine is a long way off.. I have a fair amount of other crap I'd like to take care of beforehand but maybe by next year.. *sigh*

.. Hows your engine coming along? Ive been following your posts about it and its looking pretty good.

 

[281pony]

its like a garage in my room now.

subframes, valve covers, breathers, pro-m, injectors, canton pan, cam, intake, heads all sitting here. also my gasket sets, headbolts, and rotors for the rear.

just waiting on my shortblock and ill have it together the same day and hopefully dropped in the next day. shooting for it in the car on christmas eve, assuming it arrives on wednesday/thursday of this next week.

it feels like a family on here with all the people who remember me everytime i find something else broken/blown up on my car thanks for asking, ill most likely post pics when it gets going again. assuming its running long enough to do so

good luck on your project

 

[MusPuppis]

Hehe,

My garage looks like three or four completely unrelated cars exploded in it.. scattering parts here and there. I have 67 Mustang rear quarter skins, misc parts from my F-150 that got tossed in the swap, some extra e7 heads, cut and hacked bits of metal, bolts, transmission peices, misc parts from a 22re, and the list goes on.

I know what you mean about finding crap broken though and I feel for you. The first car I ever owned was a Fairlady Z and in the 11 months I owned it it never drove for more than 2 days at a time. It was a nightmare from day one.

I hope ya get 'er runnin by Christmas.. Good luck with it.

 

[281pony]

yeah, in the garage its bad too.. two car garage.

my car is in there at an angle. two shortblocks disassembled, oil pan, heads, stock parts everywhere, old maf, injectors, rails, tools scattered, engine hoist, engine stand, mini fridge, and everything else that goes along with these projects. jackstands, jacks, a million rags, bolts.

we just moved into our house about 3 and a half months ago, needless to say the garage has been broken in early.

 

[MusPuppis]

HA!

I'm in a new house as well. About 5 months for us but I had my truck in the garage and in peices the first week. Your lucky to have a two car setup. I have one of those horribly narrow one car things. When my trucks pulled in you have to set it so you can either pass behind or in front, cause theres not enough room for both. lol.

 

[NotchRocket92]

If your looking at the TFS hci combo why don't you just look at the Holley Systemax II Kit. They revised it again and its badder then ever. A local auto parts store around here will sell them for 1800 flat. Which is a smoking price. That hci on even a well maintained stock block will run 11s sweatless with some suspension work. .02

Kenny

 

[Michael Yount]

Here's a site to help out with the home porting if you go that route - http://www.cmc.net/~xero/Mousesporting.html. But if I were in your shoes, I'd spend the money on Thumper's heads, and instead of buying the GT40 intake, have tmoss port your stock lower. It's less expensive, but for your mods, should work just fine. I'd skip the E, and use the stock HO cam with some higher ratio rockers.

 

[Michael Yount]

Daggar said - "an actually takes the AFR out of the hands of the computer when you're under boost". Not sure which computer you mean - but fuel pressure is NEVER in the hands of the ecu. The high side is set by the either the stock regulator, and where the adjustable is set at, and the low side is a function of how much vacuum is present. No ecu-computer connection/control at all.

 

[90Notch]

"The 1500 has to get the intake, gears, maf, TB, cam, new valve springs etc etc."

So I'll assume that this is a totally stock motor now? I would forget the heads and cam for now and spend the money on bolt ons right now.

Long tubes $250
Mid pipe for LTs ?
sub frame connectors $200
MAF $200
gears $500 (installed)
TB& EGR $200

This should put you close to $1000-$1500 and should give some gains then save enough to do the H/C/I right. Of course if you want to pull heads and intake to home port then that's very cheap to do and you have to be a serious moron to screw up this stuff.