It sucks, I know, but V8s are the one thing GM does better than anyone else, and until Coyotes litter junk yards, LS-anything will still be the undisputed king of hot rod engines.
My vote is if you are only going for 500hp stick with your 302 or even get a 351. That will probably be the cheapest route.
Tards?
With completely removing the LS engine association from the sloppy mechanics website, Matt has made pages and pages of write-ups, how to diagrams, and videos for building, modding, and tuning megasquirt on anything that runs with gas. He's a very sharp guy who has shared his knowledge with the public so that anyone can figure out the complexities associated with the software.
While I 99% of the time agree with what you say, I'm going to politely disagree with you on that one. While their work IS shoddy at best, the information gleaned from what they do is invaluable.
https://sites.google.com/site/sloppywiki/
If you ignore the LS content and look at the page as a learning tool, I think it is incredible that this information is available for free.
Here is my 2 cents on this. It is quite easy to get 325 WHP out of a 302. You put 325 HP to the tires in a Fox and it will be a blast. My N/A 08' Bullitt puts down an honest 325 HP to the tires and it will run 12's on street tires. Factor in that the 08' weighs more than a Fox body and I don't know why 325 HP in a Fox would not be enough. Everyone likes to talk big power on the street, or have big power on the street, but you can not really use all of it. All you do is just make tire smoke. For the $ spent, you are so much better off making a very street friendly 302 than wasting $ on a swap, unless the whole purpose of the swap is bragging rights, or you enjoy the challenge of the build. If the car is a street/strip car and fuel mileage and driveability is not a huge concern and high HP is the goal, then go for the gusto. It would be interesting to see what the $ per HP would be in a 302 /325 HP combo as opposed to the $ per HP in one of these swaps.
It might be outdated compared to other stuff on the market, but it is still easier to work on, less expensive, and packs more displacement in a smaller and more durable package than the great majority of other OEM’s stuff, particularly most anything Modular that Ford gave us. The aforementioned criteria still carries much more weight in the hot rodding world than technology alone, and is the reason the LS will continue to win these arguments for years to come.
Yea, and don’t get me wrong, the LS is not some magical HP machine. The LS guys who tout 500 hp from a cam and header swap are completely full of poop.
Then again, how many times do you see Windsor swapped Foxes running 13s? It’s pretty common around these parts. It’s easier to screw things up than it is to do them right.
In my attempt to be completely unbiased, I see the LS as what Ford should have done with the SBF. It’s light, it’s compact, they actually came in displacements worthy of a 3200lb car, and the blocks are fairly robust, where the 302 might as well be made out of glass by today’s standards.
I used to get pretty hung up on brand loyalty, but the LS is just a dang fine hot rodding engine.
I won't debate the terminator (which i know quite a bit about) vs LS swap. I love the zo6, love the terminator and love pushrod 302's. Would i put an LS in a mustang? No, but i get it.
What i will say, is that none are a budget minded project. No matter how you slice it, it's going to take time and be friggin expensive.
I see the original poster says it's for a Daily driver. Does that mean you can be without your car for weeks even months? I've seen some guys never complete their project.
Unless you have 10 grand in your hand, right now, a lift, engine hoist, every hand tool for a car known to man, tuning and dyno experience, it's may be out of your league. Oh, and you better know how to read schematics and work on vehicle wiring.
You better not run out of money at any point. You never know when you are going to have to go in your pocket for another $500+.
I'd reevaluate your skills to make sure you are there. It's not a slap it together over the weekend project and you need to be resourceful.
What i will say, is that none are a budget minded project. No matter how you slice it, it's going to take time and be friggin expensive.
I see the original poster says it's for a Daily driver. Does that mean you can be without your car for weeks even months? I've seen some guys never complete their project.
Unless you have 10 grand in your hand, right now, a lift, engine hoist, every hand tool for a car known to man, tuning and dyno experience, it's may be out of your league. Oh, and you better know how to read schematics and work on vehicle wiring.
You better not run out of money at any point. You never know when you are going to have to go in your pocket for another $500+.
I'd reevaluate your skills to make sure you are there. It's not a slap it together over the weekend project and you need to be resourceful.
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Good post. You don't really need a lift, but it would be damn nice. Everything I've done on my car, I've done with jack stands lying on my back. I'd love^10 to have a lift, but it's more of a convenience thing than a need-to-have.
95% agree. ( I respectfully disagree with " Would i put an LS in a mustang? No, but i get it." I like the challenge )
Either project will take time and 2000XP8 listed the best case scenario for you which, not a lot of us have access to unless they own a shop. Budget and end goals differ quite a bit when you talk about either swap. I know people harp on the fact that you'll need a need mount for the LS and the wiring and the tranny and all the cross members, exhaust, driveline, suspension mods to support the power blah blah blah......... The exact same holds true for a termi swap too.
OP- I am pretty sure peeps have answered your question. Above all, it is your car, do what you want with it. People don't really whine too much these days when folks put 350's in 32 fords or 55 ford pickups. They are called car enthusiasts and if it is done nicely and the outcome is an awesome piece of machinery then no one really cares. (albeit the die hard fans). I'm a car guy and can appreciate the effort and knowledge that goes into any build. I am not a dedicated name brand follower for the most. Heck I even drive a KIA for my other car.
Arguments can be made for everything. Even rebuilding a 5.0 block will require money and additional supporting modifications for it to work 100% correct. I mean even a decent set of aluminum heads for a 5.0 can run anywhere from $1200 to $2500 depending on what you are looking for. Just build what you want and share your progress and knowledge for those to follow in your footsteps.
Goodluck.
I'm getting old. I NEED a lift, lol. All my weight lifting does nothing to help me up off cold concrete.
I had to fit so many things twice, i just can't see doing it on the ground.
A good portion of my project was just an experiment. I had my theories, some of which worked out, some didn't.
Swaps are done about a dozen different ways. I chose to keep the fox dash and harness. Many choose to replace the harness and cluster, some the harness cluster and dash. That's where the real expertise comes in, you have to be able to read diagrams.
I'm lucky enough to have expert guidance, assistance and even machine shop help, and it was still a serious pain in the ass.
For the record, i did the swap for a few reasons. One of which was modern 500hp reliability. No blowing head gaskets, leaking oil or worries about aftermarket blocks.
Only thing i miss from the pushrod engine is the cam idle, which would cost me 2 grand to get, so that ain't happening.
I always went by peak hp before, now i realize low end makes a car 100% easier to drive in traffic. It's fun too, albeit a little dangerous.
As for a daily driver? I'd say no f'en way. No traction control or anti to save you. It's hard enough to keep straight below 40mph on dry pavement, so wet....
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