Need help with brakes

[mustang4lyfe]

So I installed rotors and pads all the way around on my 2000 Mustang GT, and when I push on the brake pedal it seems that I can push it way to far down for brand new pads/brakes and seems somewhat squishy and just not right. I did not bleed the brakes, do I have to? and after installing them the first time I hit the brakes with the car running some fluid did come down from some where because it was on the ground after but it doesn't do it anymore. Could I have air in the lines or just in general have to bleed the brakes when doing pads and rotors? I don't see how if I blew a small hole in a line or something how it doesn't leak again/anymore if I push the brake pedal in now.
really could use some help.
Thanks!

 

[18Dmedic]

Sounds like you definitely need to bleed the brakes. But you need to identify where that fluid came from. Make sure you don't have a leak somewhere. Its not really safe to drive around like that...especially with any appreciable speed. Definitely bleed the brakes and make sure there isn't a leak anywhere.

In general, you can do it without bleeding the system but you have to do it a certain way in order not to. This isn't the best way (and I left out a bunch of stuff in the interest of brevity) but what I do is just leave the system as is and pull the calipers off, take the pads off, take the rotors off, put the new rotors on, use a clamp to compress the caliper pistons, put the pads on, replace the calipers, and put the wheels back on. No bleeding needed. But again, I add that I only do this because I dont have a 2nd person to sit there and pump the brakes. I haven't gone to get a bleeder kit.

 

[mustang4lyfe]

Yeh I suppose I should bleed the brakes or atleast see if it is my problem and mabey end up not having to take it in. Yeah don't worry I'm driving my ford festiva and letting it sit for now, but the thing is I dont see how I got air in them because all I did was take everything off, push the pistons back in and put it all back together. Although when I pushed the pistons back in I did have the cap open where you add the brake fluid, I thought I was supposed too, could that have caused some air to get into the system?

 

[89lxsport50]

Yeh I suppose I should bleed the brakes or atleast see if it is my problem and mabey end up not having to take it in. Yeah don't worry I'm driving my ford festiva and letting it sit for now, but the thing is I dont see how I got air in them because all I did was take everything off, push the pistons back in and put it all back together. Although when I pushed the pistons back in I did have the cap open where you add the brake fluid, I thought I was supposed too, could that have caused some air to get into the system?

If you didn't remove some fluid from the master cylinder before you pushed the pistons in, it probably overflowed a little. That could be the source of the fluid on the ground.

 

[nancygrl]

If you didn't remove some fluid from the master cylinder before you pushed the pistons in, it probably overflowed a little. That could be the source of the fluid on the ground.

+1, when you push the brake piston in, the brake fluid is pushed back up the lines and if you don't keep an eye on the reservoir it'll overflow.

When was the last time you flushed the brake fluid? Brake fluid is hygroscopic and absorbs moisture from the air, so if it's been several yrs., then likely got too much moisture in it causing the squishy pedal.

 

[Rejekt]

I always open the bleeder and put a bleeder kit on the bleeder screw when I'm pushing the pistons back in the caliper.

Yeah, you should defenitely bleed your brakes. I got air in my master cylinder when I just replaced my rotors, pads, and calipers and even though I bled the wheels, the pedal still went to the floor. So if you got any air into the master cylinder then you have to bleed that also. There's 2 bleeder valves on there.

 

[18Dmedic]

1. Add some brake fluid and then Bleed the brakes.

 

[nyuk98gt]

mustang4lyfe,

Just to pile on (LOL), make sure that you wash the brake fluid off the paint! Get the garden hose out and flush away. Brake fluid is hard on paint (and other things) so it is good to get it off even though the underhood paint is not seen by many people.

+1 on routine brake bleeding. You won't believe how ugly brake fluid gets in 2 years. Yes, it's supposed to be a sealed system but water is a sneaky molecule and it will get in no matter what you do to try to prevent it. Bleeding removes corrosion products (rust grit) and low-boiling fluid and restores top performance to your braking system. Going fast is fun but stopping on a dime can save your life.

HTH,

Chris

 

[GTSGT]

And make sure its not your master cylinder. Mine went and it sounds like what your saying. Pushing way to far down and kinda squishy at the same time

 

[mustang4lyfe]

thx guys this is some really good info/tips, I did end up bleeding the brakes but it still seems like I can push the pdel way to far down having brand new brakes, it jsut doesn't seem right, so should I bleed the master cylinder or could my master cylinder be bad? and I did test drive it and after I did the break in procedure on the way back home while I was driving out of the blue I got this really bad howling type sound, actually it was pretty loud come from up front it seems like, mabey right front? Almost like a "wooooooooooo" , but really loud. Then right when I tapped the brakes it would go away, it seemed like after a while of cruising and not touching the brakes it did it or when I hit a speed could be either or but I am not possitive what one could be causing this. help plz?
Thanks

 

[18Dmedic]

+1 on the brake fluid cleanup. It will eat the paint!

Bleed the master cylinder too just to be on the safe side.

Also double check the caliper (& any other bolts you loosened) and make sure they're securely tightened to the proper ft.lbs. I don't know the exact specs off the top of my head. But I'm sure its here...just do a quick search.

 

[nyuk98gt]

mustang4lyfe:

Bleeding the m/c is required. The four corners plus the m/c should be engraved on granite in the Mustang rulebook.

Once you get the m/c bled, you will notice a big improvement in pedal feel.

GL

Chris

 

[mustang4lyfe]

Ok sounds good, I'm pretty sure I have all the bolts tight, although I just snugged up the caliper bolts I did not torque them to the certain torque specs because my torque wrench didnt fit in the wheel well to tighten the bolt. Could this cause any problems?

 

[nyuk98gt]

mustang4lyfe:

Well, it is good practice to tighten any bolt to the recommended torque. This ensures that the bolt is not overtightened and not loose enough where it can back out. With the wheels off, the steering wheel can be turned so you get better access to the bolts. You can give this another try if you have any concern that one bolt isn't snug enough. Obviously, you don't need to King Kong the bolts because the head of the bolt can be rounded off and then it is an ordeal to remove the bolt.

The two bleeder screws are on the engine side of the master cylinder. Bleed each one at a time and keep the fluid level up in the reservoir. Pedal feel should improve greatly.

GL

Chris

 

[n0v8or]

The two most common causes for low brake pedal are (1) air in the system and (2) excess mechanical movement between the pads and rotor. Since you did not have to "open" the system to replace the pads and rotors, I consider (2) more likely than (1).

Let's start with the easiest tests.

The Mustang parking and rear service brakes are interdependent; they share the same pads and rotors. A parking brake not properly adjusted can affect the service brakes. Fully apply and release the parking brake several times and see if pedal travel improves.

Assuming no improvement, try this test:

With the engine idling, depress the brake pedal until it will move no furthur with moderate pressure (don't try to push it through the floorboards), and hold it there for ~30 seconds. If you can hold that moderate pressure without the pedal dropping any lower, there are probably no leaks in the system.
Next release the pedal fully, and then pump it 2 more times in sucession. Does the 3rd depression result in less pedal travel to firm resistance?
If yes, fully release the pedal (foot off) for a minute or so (engine still running), and then press it again. Is the firm resistance point still high, or has it returned to the lower point? The former result (high) suggests wheel rotation (moving the vehicle) results in excess pad trravel. The latter result (low) suggests air in the brake lines or an internal fluid leak.

Assuming a high pedal was obtained in the previous test, try moving the vehicle 30 feet or so (about 3 full rotations of the tires), and see if the pedal has now become low again. A low pedal suggests something is pushing the one or more pads away from the rotor, resulting in excess pad travel.

Did you clean (perhaps with sandpaper) the pad guides and lubricate them? If the pads cannot move freely one can become wedged at an angle.

Did you push the caliper pistons back slowly?. Slamming them back can dislodge contaminants in the system, which can be forced back into the master cylinder, compromising its internal seals, and resulting in an internal leak that inhibits brake system pressure build-up until you get past a certain point.

Did you tighten the wheel lugs in 2 or more stages, in a star pattern, so they are all reasonaly-equally torqued? Many a brand new rotor has been warped by carless wheel mounting practices (particularly from pneumatic impact wrenches set to "kill" instead of to "stun").

Post your results; there are still several rather uncommon possibilities (like a retainer trapped behind one of the rotors).

The "wooo" described sounds like resonance of loose brake components. It may of may not be relevant to the low pedal issue. Are you sure the anti-rattle pad clips and shims are located properly? Did you use a noise-reduction coating on the back of the pads?

 

[mustang4lyfe]

problem ended up being my calipers in the rear were froze up.. had 2 get new ones, i had my local shop take care of it we know the people that work there pretty well so i figured I should take it in before I did anything worse.

 

[jshell55]

location of master cylinder bleeder valve.

I am working on this exact project on my '04 six cylinder stang. I've been having a really hard time bleeding the brake lines in general. Started with the passenger rear, my assistant pumped it for maybe 10 minutes and best I could get out of it was kind of a drool. Same with the right rear. Got a good spray out of both of the front lines. I put it back together, and drove it around the block, got the squishy brake pedal and I figure it's the master cylinder. Soft pedal, whooshing noise when I hit the brake.

But, I need some clarification on exactly what the master cylinder bleeder locations look like and/or where they are. I tried removing the two fittings that are on the engine side of the brake cylinder, and bleeding them from there, but it sprayed brake fluid out onto the hot exhaust manifold, and started a small, brief fire. Not good.

It looks like further down the brake lines, there is a metal block with what might be removable bolts above and below it, which the two brake lines go through. That might be it. Dunno. Tried to remove the top one, easiest to get to, and that metal is quite soft and I am afraid of screwing them up. I've already busted off a bolt elsewhere on this brake job so I hate to put the gorilla grip on it for fear of messing this thing up as well.

If those two lines coming out of the master cylinder are it, I'm going to have to attach a fitting to them of some type, and run some tubing somewhere so that I do not overspray and catch that nice old car on fire.

Plan B is I go to the auto zone and see if they have the brake bleeding tool over there. In fact, that might actually be Plan A.

So any detailed advice on this would be really appreciated.

p.s. I had a 94 and did 3 front and 1 rear brake job on it, with no apparent issues, so I am not a complete rookie at this, I've done about 6 other brake jobs on different other makes and models, but this is my first attempt on my 04 and has been pretty much nothing but problems.

 

[BULLITT5228]

Try some new brake hoses on the rear.

 

[BULLITT5228]

Try some new brake hoses on the rear.

 

[jrp1588]

Get the brake bleeding tool, or at least find some vinyl hose at Home depot or lowes that will fit over the bleeder screw so it doesn't just spray around willy nilly.

I've always done one man bleeding with a vinyl hose and a drinking cup. Fill the cup with enough brake fluid to cover the end of the hose, set the cup down, and start pumping the brakes. The hose will fill fill fluid, and the fluid already in the cup will prevent air from re-entering the system. Easy Peasy