Playing catch up to z28's...

AznStanger3v · Aug 31, 2004

mattkimsey said:
the 96 and 97 Camaro had the LT1 SS and 98-02 SS had the LS1

seems we have a draw. Touche

i was talking about the earlier SS Camaros. I was using my old bosses car as my reference. A lot of guys like the LT1 engines due to how brute it feels down low.

Venom351R · Aug 31, 2004

CobraSVT95 said:
what he really trying to beat is a stock SS with the exception of corsa exhaust

i told him no but this is the list that he thought he would be even with him...

shorties
o/r h
flows
70mm tb
cai
75mm maf
cobra intake
u/d pullies
3.73 gears
pro 5.0
dr's
1.8 crane roller rockers

you cant beat a stock 98-2002 SS Camaro w/ that set up. Maybe a few times if they spin through 3 gears and his car hooked good. With that set up its prob around 240 RWHP thats LT1 Territory but not late model SS territory b/c they pull about 300-315 to the wheels. YOU NEED heads, cam and intake to get close to them and then thats all you are is close you may take down some here and there but not on a regualr basis. In order to beat late model SS camaros you need a good list of bolt ons and a power adder, 340 + RWHP to give them a beating.

mto502 · Aug 31, 2004

Yikes ! Yes, my mistake. I knew that in 98 they introduced the LS1 however, I believe that the 98-99 LS1's were a little less horsepower than the 2000-2002's. I should have been a little more detailed.

Striped5.0, I agree with you. There's no way that SVT would be able to beat a stock SS with an LS1 powerplant with those mods. Not in the 1/4 mile anyway, unless the Camaro has a driver that wears a helmet 24/7.

mattkimsey · Aug 31, 2004

It may depend on the which ls1 he's racing too. The 98-00 ls1's are about 10rwhp less than the 01-02 and if the car has an A4(most do) with 2.73 gear he may have a chance. 98-00 a4 w/2.73 is probably a 13.6-13.8 second car on average.

WhiteDevil · Aug 31, 2004

Striped5.0 said:
you cant beat a stock 98-2002 SS Camaro w/ that set up. Maybe a few times if they spin through 3 gears and his car hooked good. With that set up its prob around 240 RWHP thats LT1 Territory but not late model SS territory b/c they pull about 300-315 to the wheels. YOU NEED heads, cam and intake to get close to them and then thats all you are is close you may take down some here and there but not on a regualr basis. In order to beat late model SS camaros you need a good list of bolt ons and a power adder, 340 + RWHP to give them a beating.

Yes you can when i had simliar mods i did a few times. It wasnt much, his nose to my door, or just edging out or something. But it is definatly doable. You dont need Heads and a Cam to beat an LS1, you can run door to door with them with everything but heads and a cam. But if you want to be confident, and put a couple cars on them then yeah you need a good H/C/I set up. I love mine now. Most LS1s i see on the street are just catback, lid, T-body. And think they are the fastests things around, and i like to give em a fit.

igotyofire · Aug 31, 2004

wow so much misinformation, I wish people would only state the facts they know and not assumptions. Gears will help but gears wont get a GT running low 14s alone unless it was a cobra. No way to beat a LS1 on stock heads unless ur sprayin. And the Lt1 SS does make more power then the LT1 28. SS has ram air which is suppose to be a pretty decent power gain and popular mod by the z28 guys who buy SS hoods. But im in a similar situation except im racing my buddies 97 LT1 SS in a 89 Camaro. Ill post the outcome against my pretty stock cobra,heh

WhiteDevil · Aug 31, 2004

igotyofire said:
wow so much misinformation, I wish people would only state the facts they know and not assumptions. Gears will help but gears wont get a GT running low 14s alone unless it was a cobra. No way to beat a LS1 on stock heads unless ur sprayin. And the Lt1 SS does make more power then the LT1 28. SS has ram air which is suppose to be a pretty decent power gain and popular mod by the z28 guys who buy SS hoods. But im in a similar situation except im racing my buddies 97 LT1 SS in a 89 Camaro. Ill post the outcome against my pretty stock cobra,heh

Your the one with the missinformation. I ran 14.8 in my stock GT. I added 3.73s and went 14.30s all day at the track. There is one. And yes you can beat an LS1 with stock heads. With the mods in my sig minus the Heads and cam. I was going 13.60s @101.xx. Which put me right with most stock Ls1s at the track. So get your facts straight.

95YellowGTbeasT · Aug 31, 2004

*cough* didnt snoozer go 12.95 on stock heads?? thats above and beyond a stock ls1 camaro..

Nick

mattkimsey · Aug 31, 2004

igotyofire said:
wow so much misinformation, I wish people would only state the facts they know and not assumptions. Gears will help but gears wont get a GT running low 14s alone unless it was a cobra. No way to beat a LS1 on stock heads unless ur sprayin. And the Lt1 SS does make more power then the LT1 28. SS has ram air which is suppose to be a pretty decent power gain and popular mod by the z28 guys who buy SS hoods. But im in a similar situation except im racing my buddies 97 LT1 SS in a 89 Camaro. Ill post the outcome against my pretty stock cobra,heh

The ram air hood does nothing. Take a SS and z28 of the same year from 96-02 and they will dyno within within 5 hp of one another. A lot of ws6 and ss guys don't even use the ram air, they replace it with a lid.

Ferocity02 · Sep 1, 2004

LT1's came in the 93-97 F-bodies, Camaro's and Trans AM's. The LS1 came in the F-bodies in 98-02. The LT1's have insane bottom end torque, but lack peak hp. LT1's typically dyno 260-280 rwhp stock, less for the auto's.

LS1's have a little less low end torque, but MUCH better mid-range and peak power. The 01 and 02 F-bodies came with the LS6 intake, which gives them an edge over the 98-00 LS1's. Typical dyno numbers for 98-00 LS1's are about 295-310 rwhp. For the 01-02 models it is usually around 305-315 rwhp.

The different between the SS and Z28 is minimal. The SS has the hood, spoiler, suspension upgrades, exhaust, and other minor differences. The scoop on the hood is acutally more like a cold air intake, it is not sealed. This and the exhaust gives the SS slightly more hp than the Z28, but they are practically the same.

For reference, my car made 321.9 rwhp and 340.3 rwtq with just Flowmaster (aka Crapmaster) catback, K&N air filter, and a induction lid. With the cam and crappy mufflers it did about 367 rwhp and 374 rwtq. The car is making about 325 ft-lbs of torque by 2700 rpm, and over 350 ft-lbs by 3600, so it's not all top end. Now with decent mufflers, throttle body, UD pulley, and soon an LS6 intake, I will expect about 390-400 rwhp. An easy N/A opponent for an 03 Cobra. With my moderate amount of weight reduction I'd anticipate to run low 12's. If stage 2 ported heads are added, the car would be making around 440 rwhp, but thats in the distant future.

Hopefully this gives some insight on the power of Camaro's and you can determine what you need to do to match dyno numbers. I am not very knowledgible with Mustangs and mods, so I cannot suggest what and what not to get. Maybe some of this info will help you. Good luck!

krahkin · Sep 1, 2004

My wife's cousin had a white SS, the last year they were made (02?). He changed exhaust and air box and put 330 to the ground. He sold it with about 17k miles to buy a boat

WhiteDevil · Sep 1, 2004

Ferocity02- Matchin dyno numbers is one thing, that pretty much no N/A 302 can do with an LS1, the cubes win out. A 347 would be a different story, a H/C/I 347 averages 370+rwhp. Track E.T.s are doable. Not sure on exact weights but my GT has run dead even with some modded LS1s at the track. And this is with competant drivers and comparable 60fts. They usually do trap higher But i always seem to run within a few tenths of bolt on ones, even though they apparently are puttind down 30+rwhp on me. It doesnt make sense but thats my expirience.

Ferocity02 · Sep 1, 2004

WhiteDevil said:
Ferocity02- Matchin dyno numbers is one thing, that pretty much no N/A 302 can do with an LS1, the cubes win out. A 347 would be a different story, a H/C/I 347 averages 370+rwhp. Track E.T.s are doable. Not sure on exact weights but my GT has run dead even with some modded LS1s at the track. And this is with competant drivers and comparable 60fts. They usually do trap higher But i always seem to run within a few tenths of bolt on ones, even though they apparently are puttind down 30+rwhp on me. It doesnt make sense but thats my expirience.

From what I've heard, Mustangs tend to weigh a little less than Camaro's, which may be the reason for the even trap times. From my expirience, it seems like Mustangs are pretty much only good for blower applications. I hear they are tough to get power out of. You say a H/C/I 347 averages to about 370 rwhp, same mods on the 346 LS1 averages to about 440 rwhp, up to 480 rwhp with extreme bolt-ons. Blown stock 346's have been up to around 550 rwhp, but people usually ease off the boost so they dont destroy the bottom end.

Anything can happen when racing. There are too many variables to factor in. I raced a 95 5.0 with the Vortech supercharger. He said his car was doing about 330 rwhp. However, when my car was virtually stock (cat-back, air filter), I beat him by a car length up to about 90 mph. I was suprised but like I said, anything can happen. Dyno numbers arent everything I guess, unless the difference in huge.

CobraSVT95 · Sep 1, 2004

whoa who knew what this thread was gonna turn into

and guys this isn't my setup
this is my cousins setup like i mentioned b4

i already beat these cars with my 347 stroked out z eater (well...when they are stock lol..)

AznStanger3v · Sep 1, 2004

He should get a Ginsu...........

and slash them bastard's tires with it...he'll win everytime

Joe 5.0 · Sep 1, 2004

I run 13.9's with only h-pipe, gears, pullies, & drag radials. I plan on a TF intake & BBK LT's, which should put me at least 13.4-13.6, which is about what most normal drivers of 6 speed LS1's run (from my experience). However, give them some mods and dr's and they run 12's pretty easily. The automatic LS1's run about 13.7 or so, from what I've seen. Last week I raced a stock looking LT1 auto, he ran a 14.0 @ 100mph to my 14.0 @ 99mph.

If you have good tires though and some gears and you know how to launch your car they cna be beaten on the street. Most street races dont go the full 1/4 mile (who always races to 100mph?), so if you get a nice jump and can hold them off in first & 2nd gear you'll surprise some people. I know I have.

mattkimsey · Sep 1, 2004

Ferocity02 said:
LT1's came in the 93-97 F-bodies, Camaro's and Trans AM's. The LS1 came in the F-bodies in 98-02. The LT1's have insane bottom end torque, but lack peak hp. LT1's typically dyno 260-280 rwhp stock, less for the auto's.

The LT1's may feel like they have more bottom and but they really don't, this explains why the ls1 can go 5 seconds 0-60 and the lt1 is about half a second behind. 260-280 rwhp on a stock LT1 the highest LT1's are in the 255-260 rwhp range most are 245--255.

mattkimsey · Sep 1, 2004

Lets not forget about the f-bodies dinky 7.5 rear end. Some people have broke them in a stock car on drag radials. Better 60 foot times go to the Mustangs.

Venom351R · Sep 1, 2004

mattkimsey said:
Lets not forget about the f-bodies dinky 7.5 rear end. Some people have broke them in a stock car on drag radials. Better 60 foot times go to the Mustangs.

yeah thats true. Lets see how many 2002 SS camaros lauch at a high RPM at the track using DR's.............SNAP!!!

mto502 · Sep 1, 2004

Ferocity02 said:
Now with decent mufflers, throttle body, UD pulley, and soon an LS6 intake, I will expect about 390-400 rwhp. An easy N/A opponent for an 03 Cobra. With my moderate amount of weight reduction I'd anticipate to run low 12's. If stage 2 ported heads are added, the car would be making around 440 rwhp, but thats in the distant future.

I think you're being awfully optomistic. You'll be lucky to see just over 400 rwhp WITH the heads. I know a few that have done the stage 2 ARE package with heads and cam and they're all around 400-412 rwhp including the tune. These numbers are with cutouts open, no cats and all the other mods you mentioned you wanted to have. In fact F-Body folks are also finding that maintaining the stock TB is achieving better numbers. Also, don't remove the screen.

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