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Predictions for sepcial editions.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scot_94GT
  • Start date Start date Jun 1, 2004
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RICKS

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Actually, history tells a different story. The Mustang has never the baddest "dog" on the road, but it's outsold and outlived ALL of its competition.

65-66: All you could get was the 271 h.p. 289 hipo. Super trick machine, but... at that time GTO's and Chevelle SS's laughed as they blew by. Sure they were a bit bigger, but a tiny '66 327-350 horse Chevy II would make a dinner out of a hipo as well. Did it hurt Mustang sales or image? Naw... And don't toss the "Shelby" card, because the limited production and high price positioned them against Corvette, and that wasn't a pretty picture either.

67-68: Ford ups the ante with a big block, BUT, uh, the S-code 390-4V wasn't exactly a hemi. GTO's, Chevelles, 442's, and 440 Mopars still ruled the road. Shelby's had hot 428's (and a handful of 427's in '67), but again, priced in Corvette territory where 427-435h.p.'s roamed. In late 68, you could get a 428CJ GT, which was a rocket and won the NHRA stock championship. So Ford was finally stepping up to bat. What did they get as a result? Sales were trending DOWNWARD.

69-70: Mustang's muscle heyday. However, even with the 428SCJ drag pac option, Camaro's were packing aluminum headed 396-375h.p., or you could order a COPO 427, or you could get a 450h.p. LS6 Chevelle, or the Stage 1 Buick (those were underrated gorillas!), and all those cheap and plentiful 440-Magnum and 440-6pack Mopars running around. Hemi Mopars were pricey, just like the Boss 429 was. The Mopar Hemi was much stronger stock. So Mustang was in the game. But only slightly less than 4,000 428-powered Mustangs were sold in 1970. Most Mustang performance-minded buyers were scooping up the new 351 Clevelands, which were hot, BUT, nowhere near the lead of the performance pack for the time. So it's obvious that the folks who were seeking ultimate horsepower and performance were buying elsewhere, not at Ford. Another piece of trivia, Ford had a hard time unloading their production of 849 Boss 429's in 1969. The last couple hundred sat in Detroit while the dealers were trying to sell the ones they already had. That's why Ford only built 500 in '70, the exact amount require by NASCAR, and not a single unit more.

71-73: All there is to talk about really is 1971. Boss 351 and 429CJ. Both right near the top of the heap, but that was the last gasp, not a whole lot of those models were built, and by 1972, with the exception of the lower-compression R-code 351, the muscle was sagging like your granny's tricept.

74-78: Need I say more? GM's F-bodies owned those years for performance and handling.

79-84: Ford launches the Fox, and aims squarely at the F-bodies. They have super sales success, despite the fact that GM consistently has the fastest and best handling car in their arsenal.

85-93: Here's where Ford basks in some glory. Solid sales, and king-of-the-hill performance (Grand Nationals cost too much and didn't handle for shat). Good times, but America had always loved and embraced Mustangs prior to that, and they would continue when they fell back behind again. In '93 GM launches all-new F-body that runs circles around the Mustang, straight line or curvy.

94-02: More years of stock vs. stock, Mustangs being last in every race. Did it matter? NO. More people bought Mustangs, modified them to beat the F-bodies, and that was that.

2002, F-body bites the dust, Mustang lives on, and launches this coming September with really NO direct competition.

Even if DC or GM do come out fighting with new cars, America's love affair with Mustang goes WAY WAY beyond stat sheets and performance figures. Not that Ford won't give them one hell of a fight, and make a good competition out of it. It's just that it's not "do or die" as pony542 infers it may be. Mustang has historically not been the hottest ticket off the showroom floor. But gearheads gravitate towards Mustangs nonetheless for so many other dominating reasons. You can always modify anything, so people prefer to start with a car they love, even if it needs some "warming up". They'll start with Mustangs.
 

aete2

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Nov 23, 2001
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#22
  • Jun 3, 2004
  • #22
What about a Lx & Gt type thing like the fox's?
 
F

Fastback61

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Jun 3, 2004
#23
  • Jun 3, 2004
  • #23
How about another Mustang II????

RICKS said:
ChromeYellowGT brings up an amusing prospect... retro-inspired special editions that we probably DON'T want to see!!! (Yes, these are all based on ACTUAL Mustang models from the past):

Mustang "E"
Mustang II "mpg"
Mustang Grande'
Mustang Ghia
Playboy Pink Mustangs

That's all I can remember for now that rank on my "no thanks" meter.
Click to expand...

With about 65 Horses
 

351CJ

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RICKS said:
In late 68, you could get a 428CJ GT, which was a rocket and won the NHRA stock championship. So Ford was finally stepping up to bat. What did they get as a result? Sales were trending DOWNWARD.
Click to expand...

You're taking the sales stats out of context. In 1968 the UAW struck Ford and as a result production #'s for most 1968 Ford vehicles were below what they should have been.
 

351CJ

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RICKS said:
71-73: All there is to talk about really is 1971. Boss 351 and 429CJ. Both right near the top of the heap, but that was the last gasp, not a whole lot of those models were built, and by 1972, with the exception of the lower-compression R-code 351, the muscle was sagging like your granny's tricept.
Click to expand...

Have to correct you here. The 351-4V engine, also known as the 351CJ was a Q Code engine.
 

351CJ

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RICKS said:
74-78: Need I say more? GM's F-bodies owned those years for performance and handling.
Click to expand...

And who won the sales contest?
 

351CJ

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RICKS said:
Another piece of trivia, Ford had a hard time unloading their production of 849 Boss 429's in 1969. The last couple hundred sat in Detroit while the dealers were trying to sell the ones they already had. That's why Ford only built 500 in '70, the exact amount require by NASCAR, and not a single unit more.
Click to expand...

Gee, that's not very many. If my memory is right, Chrysler started selling their 2nd generation hemi in 1965 and phased it out in 1971.

I wonder how many Hemis Chrysler built and sold during those 7 years and how many of them were sold in street cars?
 
7

78Mach1

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#28
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  • #28
351CJ said:
And who won the sales contest?
Click to expand...
II's by a landslide,

I'd also be willing to make a bet on the handling part, or is there some other reason that all the chevy guys classic guys and rodders like to upgrade to a Mustang II front end????
 
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78Mach1

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Fastback61 said:
With about 65 Horses
Click to expand...
Sure if you want to put a 4 cylinder only in it
 
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78Mach1

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351CJ said:
Since it's not on your list, I assume that means you want to bring back the Mustang II King Cobra model.
Click to expand...
Sure I'd love to see a King as a SE mustang ( by the way, fake hood scoops and decals were the thing then, just watch Smokey and the Bandit with his screaming Chicken) And The newer body styles have NO room to talk about fake scoops Add to the fact that the first stang to wear the 5.0 badge was the King, NOT the foxes ..........
 

The Bob

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ChromeYellowGT said:
The special edition will be called the Ghia. It's features will include a body colored landau style vinyl top and 18" steel wheels with simulated wire wheel covers.
Click to expand...

Yea...and with simulated woodgrain contact paper on the dash!
 
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mustangGT03281

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i think a boss 302 should be there, man would that be cool. but i would love to see an 05 king cobra, with a blown 6 or a 302, and all the tape and emblems and other cladding that make it so special! just lets get some power in there this time
 
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Stang&wake

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#33
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I would like to see a SE in a vert. Maybe something along the lines of a Shelby gt-350KR. It would be great to have all that power and be able to put the top down and take to the road
 
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78Mach1

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mustangGT03281 said:
i think a boss 302 should be there, man would that be cool. but i would love to see an 05 king cobra, with a blown 6 or a 302, and all the tape and emblems and other cladding that make it so special! just lets get some power in there this time
Click to expand...
No blown 6 in the King. At least it was a given V8 car, keep it that way. More power is a given, as I'm sure all the II owners know what fun they are with more.

By the way, I like your Sig. My Mach has had the same nickname going on 5 years now, let the Superpintos live on!
 
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RICKS

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#35
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Have to correct you here. The 351-4V engine, also known as the 351CJ was a Q Code engine.
Click to expand...
Go back to your books, you're wrong. Ford did alot of mixing around with 351 engines and codes between 71-72 as they were scrambling to adjust to new fuels and EPA regs, and I'm tight on time to time-line, BUT, 1971 started out with the M-code 351-4V, then midyear Ford introduced the Q-code 351CJ, except it was actually weaker than the M-code. They gave it the "CJ" moniker for window-dressing, but the M-code was 10.7:1, the Q-code dropped to 8.6:1. In '71, R-code was the Boss 351. In 1972, Ford had some left-over Boss 351 mills, that they installed with lower-compression under the same "R" engine code. These were referred to by Ford as "351 H.O.", and basically it was IDENTICAL to the Boss 351 except for compression, and could only be had with a 4-speed. That was the hottest ticket in '72, with the Q-code 351CJ continuing as the much weaker and more common 351-4V available.
 

351CJ

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RICKS said:
Go back to your books, you're wrong. Ford did alot of mixing around with 351 engines and codes between 71-72 as they were scrambling to adjust to new fuels and EPA regs, and I'm tight on time to time-line, BUT, 1971 started out with the M-code 351-4V, then midyear Ford introduced the Q-code 351CJ, except it was actually weaker than the M-code. They gave it the "CJ" moniker for window-dressing, but the M-code was 10.7:1, the Q-code dropped to 8.6:1. In '71, R-code was the Boss 351. In 1972, Ford had some left-over Boss 351 mills, that they installed with lower-compression under the same "R" engine code. These were referred to by Ford as "351 H.O.", and basically it was IDENTICAL to the Boss 351 except for compression, and could only be had with a 4-speed. That was the hottest ticket in '72, with the Q-code 351CJ continuing as the much weaker and more common 351-4V available.
Click to expand...

I had several 351-4V Clevelands, including Q codes.

The 351-CJ , Q code, was introduced in late 1971 at the same time the 429 engines were dropped (April). You are correct that it had lower compression, but it also had a new cam that had the same profile as the old 428CJ (modified for different rocker ratios), it also had 4 bold main caps and used the Motorcraft 4300D spread bore carb. The M code engines were rated at 300 HP gross in 1970 and 285 gross in 1971. When introduced in 1971, the CJ Q code was rated @ 280 gross HP.

As far as the 1972, 351HO goes, it appears in early 1972 literature and in the 1972 shop manuals (still have my trusty old set sitting here), but there is a lot of debate as to whether any cars were actually sold with the 351HO (R Code). My conclusion is that if real factory R codes were ever sold in 1972, it was only a handful of them. I have never seen a legitimate 1972 R code car.

The 1972 HO engine was rated @ 275 SAE net HP, which isn't much above the 266 SAE Net HP that the CJ engine was rated
 
M

mustangGT03281

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#37
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78Mach1 said:
No blown 6 in the King. At least it was a given V8 car, keep it that way. More power is a given, as I'm sure all the II owners know what fun they are with more.

By the way, I like your Sig. My Mach has had the same nickname going on 5 years now, let the Superpintos live on!
Click to expand...

yeah thats what i call it, super pinto! what engine does your mach have? you like that car? i recently got mine, and to be honest, i have no idea where to start modding. its a cool car for a lot of reasons but you gotta know too, performance sucks , i can peel out though! i love that part, laying down a little patch of rubber.
 
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78Mach1

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#38
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mustangGT03281 said:
yeah thats what i call it, super pinto! what engine does your mach have? you like that car? i recently got mine, and to be honest, i have no idea where to start modding. its a cool car for a lot of reasons but you gotta know too, performance sucks , i can peel out though! i love that part, laying down a little patch of rubber.
Click to expand...

Stockers yes performance #'s weren't all that great, but then again look at gms numbers for the same years, really not that much better. I'm waiting on my classic application to go through so I can get around the emissions requirement in Pa(just added where I am, and it only a visual, but I don't have any of it, and have no plans on looking for it)
My 78's a factory 302 car, but there is a nice fresh 331 sitting in there now, just waiting to play with some gms if I can get any traction I have quite a few tracks leading back my little dead end road.
 
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RICKS

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#39
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but there is a lot of debate as to whether any cars were actually sold with the 351HO (R Code). My conclusion is that if real factory R codes were ever sold in 1972, it was only a handful of them. I have never seen a legitimate 1972 R code car.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of any "debate", and I've seen plenty of the 398 total production '72 R-codes in my lifetime. A red unrestored 20,000 original mile Mach at Hershey 6-7 years ago. There's a beautifully restored MCA concours-trailered yellow Mach in Florida. A black driver-condition Mach in Orlando. And there's a guy in Jacksonville with an ultra-rare R-code COUPE (only 19 produced according to Marti's records), but the car was a rust-bucket-fright-pig when he acquired it, and his restoration skills were awful, meaning the car is there but rough. Having owned a '72 Q Mach, and a '73 Q Mach, and still owning my M-code '71 convertible, the factory h.p. ratings may have been close, but seat of the pants sure wasn't. Lastly, Marti lists that 13 R-code H.O. CONVERTIBLES were built, which would be a juicy find. His data is absolutely accurate.
 
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