Procharger P1sc Vs. Kb 2.1

SRT Handz said:

I am keeping the plug wires. Cheaper to maintain if anything goes wrong. COP's are WAY too expensive when one starts acting up. I have a whole backup sparkplug wires and coils. Thats why NASCAR uses Plug Wires cause they are tested true.

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Well....they also used carburetors until this year.....

COPs really don't go bad as often as people think. I know a LOT of people with 4.6s/5.4s, and I can think of ONE person that's ever had trouble with any.

And FWIW, you can pick up COPs from a junkyard for <$20 all day long.

SRT Handz said:

Just for the record, I dyno'd 407rwhp/420rwtq.

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Not trying to knock you Handz, but to the op; dont expect 407 rwhp from installing the 9psi i/c kit even with the big air & 75mm throttle body. I make the SAME boost, and that is with L/T's and no cat's... before I put the blower cams in it made 390 rwhp on a dynojet. Handz, your tuners dyno is very generous... I agree with the rest of your statements, and my KB is awesome... but their numbers are DEFINITELY inflated.

sneaky98gt said:

Well....they also used carburetors until this year.....

COPs really don't go bad as often as people think. I know a LOT of people with 4.6s/5.4s, and I can think of ONE person that's ever had trouble with any.

And FWIW, you can pick up COPs from a junkyard for <$20 all day long.

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My family actually has 3 Fords all with the same 4.6 SOHC engine. One of then had 2 have 2 replaced, the other had 1 replaced. Mine doesnt have them so none have gone bad.... But getting those 3 COPS from the dealer was expensive even with an employee discount.

usaf_branham said:

Not trying to knock you Handz, but to the op; dont expect 407 rwhp from installing the 9psi i/c kit even with the big air & 75mm throttle body. I make the SAME boost, and that is with L/T's and no cat's... before I put the blower cams in it made 390 rwhp on a dynojet. Handz, your tuners dyno is very generous... I agree with the rest of your statements, and my KB is awesome... but their numbers are DEFINITELY inflated.

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Actually, the dyno was not generous because those are the exact number Kenne Bell says they should be. Plus, my car was tuned by one of the best Boosted Mustang tuners in the country, Greg@RacersEdgeTuning. The tune makes all the difference. I am also running a ver conservative tune with only 12 degrees of timing. My tuner makes magic happen,

sneaky98gt said:

Well....they also used carburetors until this year.....

COPs really don't go bad as often as people think. I know a LOT of people with 4.6s/5.4s, and I can think of ONE person that's ever had trouble with any.

And FWIW, you can pick up COPs from a junkyard for <$20 all day long.

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I've seen stock COPs make 800+rwhp with no issues.

SRT Handz said:

My family actually has 3 Fords all with the same 4.6 SOHC engine. One of then had 2 have 2 replaced, the other had 1 replaced. Mine doesnt have them so none have gone bad.... But getting those 3 COPS from the dealer was expensive even with an employee discount.



Actually, the dyno was not generous because those are the exact number Kenne Bell says they should be. Plus, my car was tuned by one of the best Boosted Mustang tuners in the country, Greg@RacersEdgeTuning. The tune makes all the difference. I am also running a ver conservative tune with only 12 degrees of timing. My tuner makes magic happen,

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Because everyone knows buying something from a dealer is the cheapest way to get OE parts...

And because someone touched your car it is magic. Hell, my tuner made my car weigh a little less and my rwhp went from 380 to 406...but you know everything...

joshjwc9 said:

Because everyone knows buying something from a dealer is the cheapest way to get OE parts...

And because someone touched your car it is magic. Hell, my tuner made my car weigh a little less and my rwhp went from 380 to 406...but you know everything...

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I would love to see Will's car vs Handz car, Im sure the car w/o the KB on it would win.

kb's are a good unit, i would recommend them to a friend... but there is no way on earth that he is making 407 rwhp on 12* of timing. kb even states that when they made their numbers it was with something like 23* of timing and a 12.0 a/f ratio.

usaf_branham said:

kb's are a good unit, i would recommend them to a friend... but there is no way on earth that he is making 407 rwhp on 12* of timing. kb even states that when they made their numbers it was with something like 23* of timing and a 12.0 a/f ratio.

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I'm sure his turner showed him standard numbers w/ zero smoothing instead of SAE. Some shops do that to make clients feel better b/c they just dropped a ton of money into a setup and wanted to see a certain numbers.

SRT Handz said:

My family actually has 3 Fords all with the same 4.6 SOHC engine. One of then had 2 have 2 replaced, the other had 1 replaced. Mine doesnt have them so none have gone bad.... But getting those 3 COPS from the dealer was expensive even with an employee discount.



Actually, the dyno was not generous because those are the exact number Kenne Bell says they should be. Plus, my car was tuned by one of the best Boosted Mustang tuners in the country, Greg@RacersEdgeTuning. The tune makes all the difference. I am also running a ver conservative tune with only 12 degrees of timing. My tuner makes magic happen,

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Between me, my granddad, grandma, and dad, we have: 4 Mustangs (2 Mach 1s, 01 Gt, and my 98 GT), 3 5.4s (my dad's E250, grandma's 4x4 150, and her Lightning), and my grandma had an 01 Crown Vic until last year. Between all of them and the years we've had them, we've got WELL over half a million miles, and not one issue with a single COP. I have several good friends that have 4.6 Mustangs, and have had them for quite some time, that haven't a single issue with COPs.

I'm not saying they never give trouble. You said you have family that's had issues with them. I have one friend that has an Expedition that chews through those things like crazy. But that's the exception, not the rule. The huge huge HUGE majority of people never have a single problem with them. And like I said, www.car-part.com has them listed all over everywhere for $20-$30.

And I'm sorry. But "good tuning" has nothing to do with how much power your car makes at WOT. It is EXTREMELY easy to tune WOT on most cars. You simply add/remove fuel across certain RPM ranges until you get the AFR you want, and then adjust the timing to a safe level that makes power. That's it.

Of course, there's more to it, like setting up the spark and fuel tables to do certain things in certain situations (such as pulling timing when the temp goes up), or like adjusting the converter lockup schedule on an auto car, or the part throttle/load/spark settings, etc. But none of that has anything to do with WOT power. AFR and timing. That's it.

And there's no way you're making the same RWHP as an intake/exhaust/tune 4-valve 03/04 Cobra. They are running roughly the same boost level, except with 4-valve heads that flow 233 CFM (as opposed to 177 on the PIs), and a couple degrees more timing on a tuned car.

tank_567 said:

I would love to see Will's car vs Handz car, Im sure the car w/o the KB on it would win.

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Nope. No way possible. I'm only making 336 rwhp (over 70 rwhp less). AND a lot less torque. AND I have a stock, auto transmission. AND it's a super-duper inefficient roots-style Eaton. AND it's non-intercooled. AND I'm spraying meth....which will probably run out at some random time when I'm least expecting it to.

So...no. I stand no chance.

sneaky98gt said:

Nope. No way possible. I'm only making 336 rwhp (over 70 rwhp less). AND a lot less torque. AND I have a stock, auto transmission. AND it's a super-duper inefficient roots-style Eaton. AND it's non-intercooled. AND I'm spraying meth....which will probably run out at some random time when I'm least expecting it to.

So...no. I stand no chance.

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....and you ran an 11.9

I wouldnt bet a race against you.

I'm running a KB 2.1 with mmr600 short block 17 degrees timing afr at 11.5 and #12 pulley only makes 11psi due to the low back pressure from the heads and LTs. I love the way it pulls. I would recommend the kb over any centrifugal based on the fact that it make great low end and top end as the others seem to do most top end. Pound for pound a centrifugal will make a tad more power but I seem to pull on them when I race um so. Make sure and follow kb suggestions on stock block setup and you'll be fine. If you go more boost, heads or cams I highly recommend a good air to fuel gauge like the ngk afx(I think that's the name). You know how you find something that solves all your problems and you want to share it with the whole world well that is how I fell about the air to fuel gauge. Saved my motor for sure. I use the sniper self tune kit and data log but I keep my eye on that air to fuel gauge and tune with it more than anything. I'm still using the stock pump with kb boost a pump and the kb kit 36 injectors so I'm pushing it now. Next upgrades are a walbro 255 60 lbs injectors and the meth kit that goes under the twin screw. I would like to see 500 rwhp at 12-14 psi and 550 with cams. Anyways I have never had it on the dyno but feel that 450 is about where she is now. Btw the stock gears are fine which I have but will go with 3.55s when the rear end need rebuilt.

I am one of the few people out there that have run both a Vortech S-trim and now a KB 2.1.

To me there is no comparison. The KB makes the car much more fun to drive on the street. There just isn't any comparison to my old S-trim. The centri was to on or off for me where the KB is always there.

I can also tell you that with an inlet upgrade from the KB 2.6 you can make 550 rwhp with a 2.1. The blower will be near or at its max but it can be done.

That's a good deal I would get it it for 3700. The kit new is 5000 so if the supercharger needs rebuilt you will be close to that and buying new is nice cause it comes with the Boost a pump and warranty but on the other hand saving over 1000 and getting a good unit is worth a shot, The superchargers are super durable. If you need an install manual contact me and i'll copy mine for you. Don't install without the manual. I would order the Boost a pump and use your stock pump with that until you up the boost. you cant use the focus pump cause of the high amperage it pulls but you can use a walbro 255, let me clarify you can use the focus pump just have to change wires and a fuse not worth the small amount of flow over the walbro 255. Make sure you run a fuel pressure gauge and boost/vacuum gauge. Kenne Bell has the setup you want, although I didn't see it on there price list. Its the setup that comes with the kit. Get the NGK (4177) TR6 V-Power Spark Plugs and gap to .030-.035. The plugs are $1.50 ish on amazon. The chip will need to be sent to Kenne Bell so it can be flashed to your computer code and Kenne bell can guide you through that once you have the chip. Its all really easy, now that I've been trough it Oh and the blower is maxed at about 14 psi. which is more than the stock motor will handle.

And a small note on the COP for the above post. There is no comparison on the performance of a COP vs a Coil Pack. The COP has a hotter more reliable spark. The problem with them is when people wash there motors and soak them with water and start the car. They don't like a lot of shorting and resistance it burns them up. They are water proof but the water gets down in the spark plug hole and causes issues same with the coil packs. You just hear about them going bad cause more cars have them, the Coil Packs go bad too. I have to admit they may be a tad more sensitive but the cost out weights that. Especially if your running boost the stronger spark is nice.

KB 2.1 stock engine on slicks --> --> 432rwhp / 457rwtq 1/4 12.4 @ 114
61mm turbo stock engine on street tires --> --> 430rwhp / 518rwtq 12.04 @ 119mph
Procharged stock engine on slicks --> --> 12.13 @ 112

Make the right choice....

If you where to go strictly off the videos provided than the kenne bell had a higher top speed than the procharger. Meaning it made more power. Time is a lot to do with driver. All impressive times for stock motor mustangs. But theses videos have no bearing unless they where the same day same car same driver. Way to many variables. Which one do you have tank?

Clayton302 said:

If you where to go strictly off the videos provided than the kenne bell had a higher top speed than the procharger. Meaning it made more power. Time is a lot to do with driver. All impressive times for stock motor mustangs. But theses videos have no bearing unless they where the same day same car same driver. Way to many variables. Which one do you have tank?

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the turbo one lol. Just saying, at my local track I've seen a few stock mustang gts with kb 2.1 installed and all they can run are mid 12s. Never have been a fan of kb's on the 2v, they can make big power on the dyno, but cant do at the track. I've seen procharged mustang gts running high 11s all day long with a good driver.

Yeah the turbo is great. I'm a big fan of hellions kits. The power capability is tremendous with a proper turbo setup. There are always the larger kenne bells like the 2.6 and new 2.8. Most stock motor car seem to be maxed out in the mid 400hp. So any of the kits will get there with little effort.