Progress Thread Progress Thread- From6to8's 1994 Cobra Supercharger install

[Noobz347]

Are you referring to mostly in boost? What should the fp be in boost?

With the fuel route that you are going, your fuel pressures should track up/down the same as they would if you were N/A. With an FMU in the system, that would be different. So 35 lbs. +/- ish
So long as I've got good pressure and no erratic needle behavior, all is well.

And would the A/F wideband gauge not suffice for that?

This is in real time. The AFR meter will indicate just how lean it was when the piston came shooting out --or-- whether you have dropped a cylinder (super lean indication but with no associated explosion ).

 

[from6to8]

With the fuel route that you are going, your fuel pressures should track up/down the same as they would if you were N/A. With an FMU in the system, that would be different. So 35 lbs. +/- ish
So long as I've got good pressure and no erratic needle behavior, all is well.



This is in real time. The AFR meter will indicate just how lean it was when the piston came shooting out --or-- whether you have dropped a cylinder (super lean indication but with no associated explosion ).

gotcha and just did a quick google search of what the A/F ratio should be.

So N/A and under boost there's really no need to necessarily keep a check on the A/F?

 

[Noobz347]

So N/A and under boost there's really no need to necessarily keep a check on the A/F?

If you are not the one doing the tuning then this is mostly true.

You just refer to the gauge once in a while to make sure everything is happy.

If you are doing the tuning well... You can see IRT what the AFR is doing. This gives cause to go review the data-log or get setup to create one.

 

[Noobz347]

Or maybe.... You're talking to your tuner one day and say something like:

You: "I see the AFR dip right at 3250 RPM. What's that about?"

Tuner: "Get me a data-log."

 

[from6to8]

If you are not the one doing the tuning then this is mostly true.

You just refer to the gauge once in a while to make sure everything is happy.

If you are doing the tuning well... You can see IRT what the AFR is doing. This gives cause to go review the data-log or get setup to create one.

No I'm not going to do the tune. I will get a mail order tune to start it then take it to get dynoed. I will use the current chip in the car that I'll send to the tuner

 

[from6to8]

Or maybe.... You're talking to your tuner one day and say something like:

You: "I see the AFR dip right at 3250 RPM. What's that about?"

Tuner: "Get me a data-log."

I've heard that languo before especially when I was going to go something like megasquirt or quarterhorse. I'd need a laptop to get a datalog or that's only if I have a standalone vs stock ecu?

 

[Noobz347]

I've heard that languo before especially when I was going to go something like megasquirt or quarterhorse. I'd need a laptop to get a datalog or that's only if I have a standalone vs stock ecu?

It depends on your equipment.

My combo is also 'chip-tuned' so, I have no way to go in and record all the sensor inputs while I drive...


However....

My wideband is an Innovate LM-1 and I have the RPM converter. So, I use the LM-1 to record RPM, AFR, a 5V FP input, and a 5V boost/vac input from my gauge senders.

This is a big reason why I duck out of a lot of wideband discussions.

"Oh, I have this unit for 1000 years and all the pros use it.... blah *cough*"

Aww shutup.

Choose the wideband you need for your combo. Sometimes, a straight-up WB is not all that is needed.

I [think] although not verified, that the newer LM-2 does even more. So do some of the other WBs on the market.

 

[from6to8]

It depends on your equipment.

My combo is also 'chip-tuned' so, I have no way to go in and record all the sensor inputs while I drive...


However....

My wideband is an Innovate LM-1 and I have the RPM converter. So, I use the LM-1 to record RPM, AFR, a 5V FP input, and a 5V boost/vac input from my gauge senders.

This is a big reason why I duck out of a lot of wideband discussions.

"Oh, I have this unit for 1000 years and all the pros use it.... blah *cough*"

Aww shutup.

Choose the wideband you need for your combo. Sometimes, a straight-up WB is not all that is needed.

I [think] although not verified, that the newer LM-2 does even more. So do some of the other WBs on the market.

wow interesting because I definitely am not an expert in widebands and on the list I have for Scott when I was going to let him install is a digital wideband a/f.

So I'm sure he was going to explain everything to me, all of the questions I'm asking you guys as to what should the numbers be and such. So yeah now I guess I need to know " which " digital a/f I need for what I'm doing?

 

[Noobz347]

So I'm sure he was going to explain everything to me, all of the questions I'm asking you guys as to what should the numbers be and such. So yeah now I guess I need to know " which " digital a/f I need for what I'm doing?

Work this out with your tuner. He should be able to help figure out what you need versus what your tuning solution already provides.


If I were to pick one up today knowing that my 'chip-tune' has no capacity to data-log:

• 100 pct. Digital Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Technology
• 2 Configurable Linear Analog Outputs
• 4 Fully-Differential Analog Inputs
• Built-In RPM Converter [Direct Freq. or w/Opt. Inductive Clamp]
• Large High-Contrast Graphics LCD
• Log Directly To SD Card
• OBDII Scan Tool-Read/Clear DTCs and Log Up to 16 Channels
• Patented DirectDigital™ Wideband Sensor Control
• Playback Log Data On Screen And/Or w/Powerful LogWorks Software
• Single or Dual Channel A/F Version Available

The "2 Configurable Linear Analog Outputs" are so that you can use the wideband to spit out narrowband O2 sensor signals to the ECU instead of running extra sensors and bungs for wide and narrow band sensors. Your ECU (regardless of the chip that tunes it) is not capable of interpreting wideband signals.

 

[from6to8]

Work this out with your tuner. He should be able to help figure out what you need versus what your tuning solution already provides.


If I were to pick one up today knowing that my 'chip-tune' has no capacity to data-log:

• 100 pct. Digital Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Technology
• 2 Configurable Linear Analog Outputs
• 4 Fully-Differential Analog Inputs
• Built-In RPM Converter [Direct Freq. or w/Opt. Inductive Clamp]
• Large High-Contrast Graphics LCD
• Log Directly To SD Card
• OBDII Scan Tool-Read/Clear DTCs and Log Up to 16 Channels
• Patented DirectDigital™ Wideband Sensor Control
• Playback Log Data On Screen And/Or w/Powerful LogWorks Software
• Single or Dual Channel A/F Version Available

The "2 Configurable Linear Analog Outputs" are so that you can use the wideband to spit out narrowband O2 sensor signals to the ECU instead of running extra sensors and bungs for wide and narrow band sensors. Your ECU (regardless of the chip that tunes it) is not capable of interpreting wideband signals.

wait a minute lol.....................

So what all is exactly involved with installing a wideband gauge? I actually haven't gotten to that point in my research but was going to watch a vid and read up on the install process

 

[from6to8]

Work this out with your tuner. He should be able to help figure out what you need versus what your tuning solution already provides.


If I were to pick one up today knowing that my 'chip-tune' has no capacity to data-log:

• 100 pct. Digital Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Technology
• 2 Configurable Linear Analog Outputs
• 4 Fully-Differential Analog Inputs
• Built-In RPM Converter [Direct Freq. or w/Opt. Inductive Clamp]
• Large High-Contrast Graphics LCD
• Log Directly To SD Card
• OBDII Scan Tool-Read/Clear DTCs and Log Up to 16 Channels
• Patented DirectDigital™ Wideband Sensor Control
• Playback Log Data On Screen And/Or w/Powerful LogWorks Software
• Single or Dual Channel A/F Version Available

The "2 Configurable Linear Analog Outputs" are so that you can use the wideband to spit out narrowband O2 sensor signals to the ECU instead of running extra sensors and bungs for wide and narrow band sensors. Your ECU (regardless of the chip that tunes it) is not capable of interpreting wideband signals.

I just did a quick search on installing a wideband and watch a video quick look video and stuff. So it seems that some people install only one O2 sensor?

Is it basically installing that O2 sensor running the wiring up through to the gauge. The guy in the video said something about this 4 wires that he ran up through the trans tunnel to the gauge.

What else or what's the gist of the rest of the installation? Of course I know power and ground

 

[Noobz347]

I have mine installed with one sensor and have left the two narrow-band sensors to do ECU [things]. So, I have two narrow band sensors for the ECU and one wideband sensor for the LM-1.

Alternatively, I could install two wideband sensors and send the 5 Volt outputs to the EEC.

Back in the day, I think I would have needed to run two LM-1 units (but it's been a long time and I don't recall all the details).

With the LM2, you can run 2 sensors --and-- already have the 5 Volt outputs built-in to the machine. This is probably how I would go, today.

Now... There [are] other companies with widebands have the same or similar functionality. I refer to the Innovate products because they are what I am most familiar with.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I have an Autometer full sweep electric fuel pressure gauge in both my cars. Full sweep are a little more $$$ but they have better resolution than a standard gauge.

You need to know what AFR you are going to install but in general I would think you could find all kinds of videos on youtube for the install.

 

[from6to8]

I have mine installed with one sensor and have left the two narrow-band sensors to do ECU [things]. So, I have two narrow band sensors for the ECU and one wideband sensor for the LM-1.

Alternatively, I could install two wideband sensors and send the 5 Volt outputs to the EEC.

Back in the day, I think I would have needed to run two LM-1 units (but it's been a long time and I don't recall all the details).

With the LM2, you can run 2 sensors --and-- already have the 5 Volt outputs built-in to the machine. This is probably how I would go, today.

Now... There [are] other companies with widebands have the same or similar functionality. I refer to the Innovate products because they are what I am most familiar with.

Okay I need to call Scott and talk to him in the morning to get the gist of all of this because all he told me was I needed to buy a digital wideband gauge. I guess the gauge comes with all that stuff.

If I'm going to be installing the wide band I needed to be as simple as possible LOL I don't want to have to worry about getting a 5 volt reference to the ecu & stuff. Maybe his explanation tomorrow will make me more comfortable doing it

 

[Noobz347]

Okay I need to call Scott and talk to him in the morning to get the gist of all of this because all he told me was I needed to buy a digital wideband gauge. I guess the gauge comes with all that stuff.

The vagueness in terms have become customary for some reason.

A "wideband gauge" does exactly horse . Lots of people have come through this forum looking for a way to hook their "wideband gauge" up to their narrow band sensor thinking that was going to give them something. What they got was a useless light show.

A wideband meter, complete with wideband sensor, is capable (in most cases but not all) of feeding a wideband gauge.


Most wideband systems today, come with their own gauge. This is why I do not own those systems. I want my gauge to match so I bought a system that allowed me to add my own gauge and not use their "digital nightmare LED Christmas tree color cornucopia". I wanted plain, white-face, analog to match my Kenne Bell gauges. No digital BS in my 80's cockpit please.

 

[from6to8]

I have an Autometer full sweep electric fuel pressure gauge in both my cars. Full sweep are a little more $$$ but they have better resolution than a standard gauge.

You need to know what AFR you are going to install but in general I would think you could find all kinds of videos on youtube for the install.

yeah gotta see what all is involved to feel comfortable doing it. I mean it's nothing to take the X off and have take it to get a bung welded but I'll need to know exactly where it needs to be welded.

 

[from6to8]

The vagueness in terms have become customary for some reason.

A "wideband gauge" does exactly horse . Lots of people have come through this forum looking for a way to hook their "wideband gauge" up to their narrow band sensor thinking that was going to give them something. What they got was a useless light show.

A wideband meter, complete with wideband sensor, is capable (in most cases but not all) of feeding a wideband gauge.


Most wideband systems today, come with their own gauge. This is why I do not own those systems. I want my gauge to match so I bought a system that allowed me to add my own gauge and not use their "digital nightmare LED Christmas tree color cornucopia". I wanted plain, white-face, analog to match my Kenne Bell gauges. No digital BS in my 80's cockpit please.

lol I wouldn't mind that one gauge being digital as he said it'll be easier to an more accurate vs reading the number dial lol. I have autometer c2 gauges so yes matching them up is nice. I'm curious to see what he says tomorrow as to what he meant by what he told me to by.

 

[Noobz347]

mean it's nothing to take the X off and have take it to get a bung welded

They need to be installed in a portion of the pipe that runs down-hill and in a position between say, 8 and 4 o'clock.

So, header or pre-cat mid-pipe. Usually, in the pipe that connects to the X.

 

[Noobz347]

lol I wouldn't mind that one gauge being digital as he said it'll be easier to an more accurate vs reading the number dial lol. I have autometer c2 gauges so yes matching them up is nice. I'm curious to see what he says tomorrow as to what he meant by what he told me to by.

Lot's of people like them. Not bad-mouthing them (ok... yes I am ). Just not my kind of music.

 

[from6to8]

They need to be installed in a portion of the pipe that runs down-hill and in a position between say, 8 and 4 o'clock.

So, header or pre-cat mid-pipe. Usually, in the pipe that connects to the X.

I'm catless........