Runs really rough - Code 212

[BrightVa]

1995 GT Manual
Runs really rough, if at all. It will not idle if I don't keep my foot on the pedal, and even then it may die. So its not driveable.
I pulled codes and the only code I got (other than 111) was:

212- Loss of Ignition diagnostic monitor signal / SPOUT circuit grounded

I could only pull codes with KOEO. It didn't run well enough for KOER. So I am also unable to check base timing.

So this must be a problem on the ignition circuit. I'm just not sure where to start. I don't want to throw parts at it.

1. How can I test for a ground on the SPOUT? Disconnect the gray tab and use a multimeter to test for resistance to ground on each pin?
2. How can I test the ICM?
3. I've also read it could be the Hall Effect Sensor in the distributor. How can I test that?
4. Do you think this is the reason the car won't run?

Any suggestions or advice is welcome!

 

[Foxtrot245]

Here is what my Chilton book says on how to test the ICM and SPOUT. I'll try to post the PIP diagnosis.

 

[BrightVa]

Here is what my Chilton book says on how to test the ICM and SPOUT. I'll try to post the PIP diagnosis.

Thanks so much for the reply! Sorry, I didn't see it until now. I had given up on anyone replying to that post.

I've been working on the car here and there over the last month, with some improvement made. Here is the work done:

1. New Ignition Control Module (Motorcraft)
2. New Engine Coolant Temp sensor
3. New ACT sensor
4. New IAC
5. New plugs and wires
6. New distributor - base timing set to 12 deg of advance, assuming the timing marks are accurate - it was the cheap distributor sold by LMR.com

The good news is, the engine will run, but its far from good. The idle surges so badly that it dies unless I turn the idle screw to open the throttle body quite a bit. This results in a 1200 rpm idle, which is quite high. That is with the IAC unplugged and the SPOUT connector out.

It seems like its running rich, but I'm only going by the smell of the exhaust. Which is hard to say because the prior owner removed the cats. But I've been around cars with no cats and didn't recall them smelling quite this strong. All anecdotal.

Any thoughts?


BTW - the car has aluminum heads, BBK Throttle body and CAI, TFS Intake manifold, TFS rockers, TFS cam? (haven't pulled it out to check it and got no info on it).

 

[Noobz347]

Pull the plugs and take a look at them.

You can't really go by smell with no cats. Without them, they almost all smell rich.

:My theory here is that you might actually be running lean and that you have vacuum leaks to address in the engine bay (outside of the ignition issue you posted above).

 

[BrightVa]

Pull the plugs and take a look at them.

You can't really go by smell with no cats. Without them, they almost all smell rich.

:My theory here is that you might actually be running lean and that you have vacuum leaks to address in the engine bay (outside of the ignition issue you posted above).

I did replace a few vacuum lines, but not all of them. Is the best way to test to buy a smoke machine?

 

[Foxtrot245]

I probably have that same distributor from LMR. It's labeled as a Skyward chinese distributor. Surprisingly it ran for almost a 1,000 miles although I encountered someone on corral.net that had that distributor and went with the jegs one. I don't trust the long term reliability of the pip ,but it gets me by for now. Plan to replace it with a nicer one. I'm currently hunting down a KOER code myself which is 412. Unable to control RPM during high rpm check. I would definitely check the vacuum lines which noobz recommends.

One of my vacuum lines is falling apart after taking the plenum off. Also replacing my EGR valve since its gunked up with carbon. Those two would definitely cause idle issues. I set my engine to 10 BTCD since I read that's the factory spec. I would also check your ecu for blown or leaky capacitors since these 94-95gts ecus are very old now. I got a rebuilt one from ebay where someone soldered some new capacitors onto it.

 

[mo_dingo]

Not sure if this will help, its from identifix.com and the most common fix is a new MAF or distributor.

1. Verify that the spark plug wires were installed in the correct firing order of the engine.

2. Monitor the Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) duty cycle reading or the pattern of the signal using a labscope to determine if the square wave looks clean.
The PIP duty cycle should indicate to be 47-53% at any engine speed. The pattern should show one skinny square wave which represents the position of #1 cylinder. The rest of the square waves should be equal in size and have the same on/off time of the wave.

3. If the PIP signal is erratic or the duty cycle is not within the range of 47-53%, replace the distributor assembly as a unit. Replacing just the distributor pickup for a duty cycle problem will not improve the problem.

4. If the PIP duty cycle appears to be ok, nurse the engine added fuel to determine if its potentially running lean.

5. Perform a cylinder contribution test while monitoring the hydrocarbons (HC) from the tailpipe with a gas analyzer to verify that all injectors are flowing the same amount of fuel.

6. If injector flow is equal and the duty cycle function is ok but specific cylinders appear to be weak, check running compression on those cylinders and take a reading from a contributing cylinder for comparison to identify a mechanical problem of the engine.
Tech Tips:The PIP circuit is the Grey/Orange (GY/O) wire at the distributor harness connection and the ICM connection.

 

[BrightVa]

Pull the plugs and take a look at them.

You can't really go by smell with no cats. Without them, they almost all smell rich.

:My theory here is that you might actually be running lean and that you have vacuum leaks to address in the engine bay (outside of the ignition issue you posted above).

I believe you are correct. I pulled intake duct (where it attaches to the mass air sensor) to smoke test the intake system for vacuum leaks. I didn't find any vacuum leaks, per se, but I did find significant air leaks. The ductwork between the mass air and the throttle was leaking, so I replaced it. But what I have now found is the Throttle Body itself is leaking where the throttle cable connects. See the attached pics.

You probably can't see it in the pics, but the upper intake is also leaking where the EGR valve connects. I think I can resolve that with a new gasket.

My question: What can I do about the leaking throttle body? Do I need to replace it?

 

[General karthief]

Yes. Smoke gets out, air can get sucked in.

 

[BrightVa]

Yes. Smoke gets out, air can get sucked in.

Just to be clear, you're saying I need to replace the throttle body in order to fix this?

 

[General karthief]

Just to be clear, you're saying I need to replace the throttle body in order to fix this?

Or pull the TB shaft and install new bushings

 

[Noobz347]

I would call Summit and ask them about these kits:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/smp-2019/make/ford/model/mustang/year/1995#overview

The images are generic, and it says each is special ordered but it doesn't say what all is in each kit. I'd be curious if it contains the bushings karthief mentioned.

 

[Mcmahst]

Just to clear up this question, did you ever get an idle vacuum reading?

 

[BrightVa]

Just to clear up this question, did you ever get an idle vacuum reading?

I have not. I'll have to look into how to do that. I have a mighty vac I use for bleeding the brakes. I'm not sure if it can also be used as a vacuum gauge.

 

[BrightVa]

Just to clear up this question, did you ever get an idle vacuum reading?

After a long time, I got back to working on the car. I did replace the throttle body to get rid of the vacuum leak, this helped a little.

If I let the car warm up holing my foot on the pedal, it will hold idle, though still surging a bit.

I can get it to idle around 750-800 rpms, and it pulls 12 in. HG of vacuum. If I turn the idle up to 1000 rpm, it will pull 14 in HG.

Thoughts?

 

[BrightVa]

I also pulled the ECU and discovered that it is a bone stock, un-tuned ECU (that is, no chip in it). It still has the Ford seal that says Warranty Void if removed.

Given this car has Heads/Cam/Intake, 70 mm throttle body, and no cats, could the stock ECU be the reason it runs so poorly?

 

[Noobz347]

I don't see any mention in this thread about pulling codes.

You should probably try that first.

That throttle body is probably not doing you any favors at all.

Is the MAF stock? Injectors stock? What cam and intake?

It's beginning to sound like a car that somebody tossed a bunch of stock parts onto in order to sell.

 

[BrightVa]

I don't see any mention in this thread about pulling codes.

You should probably try that first.

That throttle body is probably not doing you any favors at all.

Is the MAF stock? Injectors stock? What cam and intake?

I have very little info on the car from the prior owner, who was in bad health.

• Trick Flow intake
• Unknown heads, but definitely aluminum
• Unknown cam
• I can see that it has TF 1.6 roller rockers by shining a flashlight in the oil fill.
• Valve covers are also Trick Flow, and so tall that the bottom of the throttle body is in contact with the valve cover. So I assumed it must be a fairly aggressive cam if it needed an extra tall valve cover. The intake has a 1" spacer.

I put a stock MAF on it.

The Injector says Ford F1TE-D5A. So I assumed it was stock.

 

[BrightVa]

I pulled codes a long time ago, and the 212 was a stored code. I can't get any codes now, other than 111.

I tried doing a KOER test, but it gives a code 412, Unable to control high RPM idle, and does not complete the test.

 

[Noobz347]

Those injectors are 24 lb/hr.

Not out of the realm of reasonable for the stock EEC but it's not helping.

Is that a stock MAF housing you got there?