SATAN STRIKES AGAIN! Surging/Power Loss, Part II

[Darkwriter77]

Heh ... I can just imagine, taking it to a dealer, how dollar signs will suddenly appear and a "ching-ching!" sound happens when a service tech sees me roll my spray-painted, ghetto-modded clunker 'Stang into the bay. He'd probably recommend that I jack up the car, remove the license plate, install it on a new '05 Mustang GT, and lower it back down.

Against my better judgement, I ran my fingers all along the spark plug wires while the car was idling, and waited for it to do its little "Harley-Davidson idle mode" gimmick. Fortunately, no hair-raising zaps of electricity were encountered ... although in hindsight, maybe I deserved it, just to teach me a lesson in not working on my car after only three hours' sleep. No burn spots on any of the wires, either. So, I'm ruling out plug wires for now.

The thought that it might be the injectors is really starting to eat at me. The last set I replaced because no less than FOUR of the things were cracked and leaking fuel all over the intake valley - indeed, I was a rolling dose of napalm waiting to happen, and I drove it that way for THREE MONTHS - and I was having all kinds of driveability issues back then, some of which were quite similar to those I'm experiencing now. The chances of my new injectors being crapola, too, seems almost astronomical ... yet not impossible, knowing my luck.

It's to my understanding that when injectors crap out, they just die, and that's that. Well, that or they get clogged and spray crappy streams, but they still fire. True/false?

*drops to knees before 'Stang* Please, oh, please, stop draining my wallet. I can't take much more a' this...

 

[darthcual]

I have nothing construtive to add, only that you saying the 'install new 05 mustang' reminded me of a green acres episode.
Whats wrong with the tractor?

Its the carberator.

Whats wrong with the carberator?

It needs a new tractor.

 

[Darkwriter77]

Yup. That'd be the one!

Picked up a reman dist. and a set of Accel Spiral Core plug wires (ooooh, pretty blue!) from work last night. Might get around to plugging that on today or Monday, depending on how much time m'lady allows me to fiddle with my car before dragging me off to go run around town with her again.

 

[Darkwriter77]

Plug wires and reman distributor are in. Timing is set to a steady 12* initial, 20* total...

... AND IT STILL DOES THE EXACT CRAP IT DID BEFORE!!! GAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

Okay, so then ... *takes thirty minutes to calm self down and bandage contusions on forehead* ... my list of suspects is now narrowed down to:

- ECM ground(s)
- Exhaust leak(s)
- Bum fuel injectors

As stated, going to notch the crossmember and clean up the ECM ground on Monday. If not that, then I guess a whole new set of injectors is in the works. Figuring I should just go with the old-school single-pintle injector style, instead of these fancy four-hole newer design units I've got in there now (anyone else seems to do fine with them, but me? Ohhhh, NOOOOO, my car's speeeeeeciallllll! crapola ).

And then, if not those ... maybe see about getting full insurance coverage and then, ohhh, maybe helping along an electrical fire that could start somewhere at the alternator (those plugs HAVE been known to flame up) and just tragically burn my beloved money pit to a scorched, hollowed-out bare frame...

Beer. Need beer. Beer fixes everything... *sniffle*

 

[darthcual]

Didnt you mention that those fuel injectors were out of an thunderbird or something? and they were 24 pounders? What was wrong with ur stock ones, leaking? Put stock 19lb injectors in, that may be your problem. Know anybody that has a fox? Ask to switch injectors with them. Or buy some from your P.O.E. Let me know for i think i'm the only one left following this Saga.

 

[Cobra5.0Jeep]

My 92 did the same thing, surged and jerked and lost power. Now it won't start when hot but for some reason without me touching it that went away and now it just runs rough.

 

[Darkwriter77]

The injectors I put in are 19# units - same ones they're still putting in 2-valve 4.6L Crown Vic motors to this day - they're just the newer Bosch Design type with the four holes on the end instead of the single pintle design. Supposedly, gives better atomization of fuel and thus better mileage, power, idle, happy feelings, etc. Also, there's something about them being a "disc" setup inside rather than a pintle, so there are some different advantages/disadvantages with them as far as the way they fail. That said, I dunno if what I've been going through has to do with them or something else, but I know for certain it's been something I've fought with since I bought the darned car.

Still haven't had a chance to notch the crossmember or anything - spent a chunk of yesterday changing out the lower hinge pin on m'lady's Town Car, and thereafter was greatly rewarded for my efforts... May get around to it tomorrow or the next ... but then, I also need a set of tires, too, soooooooo... *le sigh*

It just never ends, does it?

On a side note, the whole Satanic possession issue seems to at least have been somehow diminished by the distributor/plug wire install. Since EVERYTHING in the ignition system has been replaced, I'm only left with to conclude that it's gotta be something that's just throwing off the air/fuel mixture and causing it to periodically run really rich. Being that I've changed/checked almost every sensor on there, though, I haven't a clue what's left. Worst case scenario, it could be the MAF is just bad (I've already cleaned it), and so I'd have to plunk down $75 for a new one of those. Otherwise ... maybe ... just MAYBE it's this stupid exhaust leak that's throwing off the oxygen sensor's readings on the left bank, making it think I'm running lean and thereby upping the fuel...?

 

[Euphoric306]

could be the exhuast leak, but doesn't quite account for the intermittency of the problem....


have you checked codes yet? haha jk

anyway..... good luck and keep up with the updates

 

[RUNINAGT]

HMM Just a thought. on 2 other gt's that I have had, both seem to have an eratic idle issue. (surging). 1st of the 2 was a 1989 GT, and the 2ND was a 1986 GT both HO'S (I said ho's sorry). I faught that problem and never fixed on my 89, which I had 1st. I got my 86 in the late 90'S. It did the same thing, UNTIL I was told to install a spacer between the I.A.C motor and the throttle body. It was an $11.50 part direct from Ford. If I remember right it had some adjusting screws for the air coming in. Now remember, I only had the issue @ idle and @ very slow speeds. (like parking lot deal). If this was already replaced and I missed it, then im sorry I was just try'n to help. After this was done all my erractic idle issues were a thing of the past.
I have now recently got a total stock 1993 GT with less than 20,000 miles on it. Black with grey leather. Even the radio was stock. . Believe it or not I only paid $5,000 for this thing that has been sitting for years. Drove it home 400 miles and has not missed a beat yet. Had 16k when I got it. Anyway wish ya luck.

 

[TooFoxy]

did u check your voltages on the Fuel pump relay? also there is an EEC relay just above the computer. if you do replace them get motorcraft ones becuase i got some crappy ones and they didnt work at all... but sometimes there is a voltage drop after the relays that cause these cars to run rough also..... CHECK the 2 grounds.. one is under the pass kick panel grind alil paint off if u can then make sure its tight... and the single plug coming off the neg battery cable take it appart and clean the corrosion out of it put some electric grease and put back together.... also.... tighten up the 10 pin connectors (salt and pepper) behind the intake.... hope all of this can help remedy your problem

 

[darthcual]

Dark, as far as fuel and spark go, I wouldnt use anything except motorcraft parts unless your making huge hp and need better than stock. Just my opinion.

 

[Darkwriter77]

Already replaced the IAC, even tried reversing it one time for giggles (it idled way high during that test). The idle issue isn't so much a problem, as the power loss is the biggest gripe I have about it. The idle issue doesn't feel like the motor is missing out, it just feels like it's idling too low (about 650 rpm) or lopey, and it smooths itself out if you sit at a light for about 30 seconds or so ... and then it comes back a little while later (along with the power loss). When the power loss goes away during acceleration, it's almost like hitting a nitrous button, although that may be a bit of a severe comparison.

I've already given the salt n' pepper shakers plenty of lovin' with fresh dielectric grease and careful use of a thumbtack to spread the pins out a little farther to make better contact. The negative battery cable has no such terminals going to it on my car, due to its relocation to the trunk (was done before I ever got it), so finding that extra ground wire could prove to be a bit of a challenge.

What sort of voltages should I be seeing at the fuel pump relays, and on which pins of it? Fuel pump's new, but the prior owner (or their mechanic, whomever did it) buggered up the fuel level sending unit, so I have no functional gas guage ... but otherwise, new pump, and plenty of pressure at the fuel rail (around 35 psi at idle).

With regards to aftermarket parts, I don't really have anything "performance" on there, so to speak. I replaced the coil with an MSD, but more so because it wasn't much more than an OEM replacement. Ditto for the wires when I installed Accel SuperStock Spiral Cores (oooh, pretty blue color!). Distributor is just a reman'ed Motorcraft unit - I had a hunch it wouldn't solve it, knowing my luck, so I didn't want to blow any more on it than I absolutely had to.

Again, my current list of suspects:
- Exhaust leak behind driver's side header flange
- Bad ECM ground(s)
- Bad MAF sensor
- Got screwed on eBay 19# fuel injectors

Any other things I haven't replaced yet? Air charge temperature sensor, mayhaps? (Located on the back of the intake manifold, right?)

If and when I get this ironed out, all I have left to solve is my leaky transmission, and I'll wind up with an almost 100% brand new 'Stang in my driveway for just under $6,000 total ... with a $25 paintjob on it.

 

[TooFoxy]

one of the EEC grounds is on the driver fender apron in front of the starter selinoid should have 2 wires commin of the ring connector one is normally straight from the battery, the other is 1 of the grounds for the EEC the one we are talkin of has a connector in it.. looks kinda like a bullet becuase of its proximity to the battery that connector can corode its worth trying to clean. the other is under the pass kick panel u may have to peal the carpet back alil its a ring connector attached to the unibody right under the kickpanel if u can scrap alil paint off may help but makin sure its tight should do the job. if u have the kick panel off... u can take the glove box door off too... u can get right to the EEC relay its above the computer i would try changing that as one last resort... make sure its a motorcraft though

 

[RUNINAGT]

I replaced the IAC on mine also and it never corrected the problem. When I installed the spacer between the IAC and TB it cured the problem. Its about a 1/4 in spacer that you simply put between the IAC and where it mounts to the tbi.

 

[Darkwriter77]

Mayhaps ... but the IAC wouldn't be causing the power loss issues I'm experiencing. When it isn't going through its Satanic possession moments, it idles smooth as "buttah."

Going to attack the grounds here in a few minutes. Will soon have results...

 

[darthcual]

Maybe a silly assumption but how bout your plug wires? They in good shape? I'm sure this is one of the first things you looked at. Drop that tank and see whats going on with the fuel pump and sending unit. It sounds like he forgot to plug something back in. Remember that movie Gremlins? Yeah thats whats going on.

 

[87nashgt]

Do you have an aftermarket tach, if so try and unhook it and see if that helps. I had a bad tach before that caused simlar problems. good luck

 

[RUNINAGT]

Yea I never had a power loss, just a surging idle. It sounds like you have put lotsa money in the hunt. Whats another $11.00 bucks. I keep try'n to picture the monkey exhaust thing lol. O'well good luck.

 

[Darkwriter77]

Whelp, re-did all the grounds, including the ECM and relays. There was some dielectric wannabe paste gunk on the ECM ground, but the others looked good. Sanded down to bare metal, added my own clear gel dielectric. Gave it a test drive.

STILL THE SAME SYMPTOMS.

New plug wires went on at the same time as the reman'ed distritbutor a few days ago.

No aftermarket tach yet. Sure would like one, though - I'm pretty sure mine's way off on the top end, as the OEM ones do tend to be.

Whelp, three suspects left:
- Exhaust leak (throwing off the O2 sensor readings)
- MAF sensor
- Crappy injectors

Tomorrow, I must decide between spending my time waiting to have tires installed, or removing and notching the crossmember and farting around with that driver's side downpipe to make it seal up...

 

[TooFoxy]

dumb question but are the o2 sensors good/clean? the exhaust leak shouldnt throw the o2 sensors off unless its like MASSIVE leak. can u tell where the leak is? if not best way to find them is w/ a long piece of hose and put to ear and find the hissing noise. do u have a friend that you could swap MAF's w/ just to test it? also IAC spacers seem to fix alot of people problems like this i havnt had to use one my self. another thing that could help sense u have done all this work is un hooking the battery for a while let the computer reset sense so much stuff has changed.. i'd pull the codes if u havnt before u reset it though