Selecting cam for stock bottom end, good OTS?

281pony · Jan 19, 2010

i've been attempting to get a custom cam going. i've been unsucessful at actually speaking to the two i'm trying to go with for one. im also not really in the position to wait a month for the cam to get ground for me.

the last 2 night's ive sat on hold with comp cams for over an hour total now. never got to a representative for a suggestion. so, can anyone suggest me a cam that will blow away a tfs stage 1? is there anything worthwhile that will drop in?

stock bottom end, tfs twisted wedge old casting with stock springs, systemax 2, all bolt-ons, 4:10, manual.

270hr? sorry for a blunt question, i've been trying to search peoples combo all night. i just switched over to the systemax from a tfs track heat. well i will be when i swap cams. car is going down this weekend. needs to be down no more then one week.

281pony · Jan 20, 2010

before i hear how i should go custom;

i plan to run this new combo with intake/cam for a bit. i want to get some track times with this, dial in the suspension some, get stickier tires, just have fun with it.

then the plan is to let money trickle into an account for a fresh 302 with some boost. heads will be worked over, and all the other supporting things to come. at that time, a custom cam will come when it will be appreciated more. this stage 1 cam is ok i guess, but from all my reading it seems to leave power on the table. my dyno tuner agreed. i dyno'd at 289 hp on a mustang dyno. the operator said i needed more cam to bring out some better hp figures.

so in a nutshell, i am looking for a better camshaft right now. without breaking the bank on springs, custom grind, waiting period, ect. i plan to just run this setup hard until it either lets go or i am done with my other build. (semi long term).

281pony · Jan 20, 2010

i have been searching the 270hr heavily for a couple hours. i see alot of people recommend this cam. i also ran into a thread where the guy specifically asked for a cure to an issue i have.

he has bucking under 1800-1900 rpms even with a dyno tune. i HAVE this and it drives me insane. so a couple questions for you educated cam guys.

is this the specific model number everyone references as the "270hr" ; XE270HR-14

there are 2 other grinds. -8 and -12 grinds. which is the famous grind everyone runs?

i ran into an article where a custom cam grinder said this would be the best OTS grind for a combo pretty similar to me. same heads, gt40 intake to my systemax and 3:73 to my 4:10 gears.

i think this is the winner outside a custom cam, can anyone else recommend a newer/better OTS cam? this was a fairly recent thread (early 09).

these will be next day aired with some lifters tomorrow if nobody has a solid objection to power gains/driveability improvement. i paid $150 for a dyno tune to solve the bucking. so the cost of the cam alone is worth it to fix that.

Pratice · Jan 21, 2010

I ran the xe270hr114 cam in a gt40 motor I had. The car made 315 hp and ran 7.80's @ 89 in the 1/8. In my current 93gt I'm running a xe276 with a systemax topend and brodix heads. My car made 358hp with that cam.

The xe270 is a good street cam, it peaked at 5500 rpms for me. The xe276 peaks out a 6k.

Rick 91GT · Jan 21, 2010

The (-xx) on those cams relates to the LSA 114, 112 or 108. If you stay with the 114 or 112 you will not have too many issues.... On any motor no matter what tune, if the motor doesn't have any load on it, it will buck

Personally I like the TFS 1 for that combo, but I would also look into the K35-552-8 it's a COMP N2O grind but it works very well, NA and should clear with no issues. I've never waited that long on hold to speak to my rep at COMP, they have a lot of grinds that can be turned around fairly quick in there system, trying giving them another call if your looking for a shelf or quick ship cam.

Your big factor is you have the only heads/springs, if they are the single spring the spring pressure (seat and open) is pretty low and any of the XE lobes may cause you float issues

281pony · Jan 21, 2010

i called 3 nights in a row at comp cams. each night i waited at a minimum, 30 minutes. i finally last night talked to someone and i was really pissed in the end. i spent over 90 minutes of my time sitting and listening to the same **** over and over. he answers, i tell him i'm looking for a more aggressive cam on a stock bottom end, trickflow heads, ect.

he says we don't have anything. i'm like ok so the trickflow stage 1 is a good cam? no ours are better.. well what can i use? nothing, you have stock heads he didnt pay enough attention to me to remotely listen to my combo.

end result was i said how about the 270 grind? he immidiately said yep thats a great cam. i asked if there was any profit in going with a custom COMP CAM, not another competitor! he said NO thats the best one available. i have seen a ton of good feedback regarding this cam, he was just so immidate to answer that. if it weren't for reading online, i wouldnt have listened to a word he said. hell, i brought up the cam myself.

so basically, i am going to explore all options. definately not impressed with their "service".

281pony · Jan 21, 2010

Rick 91GT said:
The (-xx) on those cams relates to the LSA 114, 112 or 108. If you stay with the 114 or 112 you will not have too many issues.... On any motor no matter what tune, if the motor doesn't have any load on it, it will buck

Personally I like the TFS 1 for that combo, but I would also look into the K35-552-8 it's a COMP N2O grind but it works very well, NA and should clear with no issues. I've never waited that long on hold to speak to my rep at COMP, they have a lot of grinds that can be turned around fairly quick in there system, trying giving them another call if your looking for a shelf or quick ship cam.

Your big factor is you have the only heads/springs, if they are the single spring the spring pressure (seat and open) is pretty low and any of the XE lobes may cause you float issues

i assume by "Your big factor is you have the only heads/springs", you mean i have the old heads? i was told by a tfs rep, that these were the same springs/heads they produce today as twisted wedge heads. do you know that to be true/false?

i am basically fairly close to happy now, but i want a little bit more. i plan to run this combo i go to for the summer. then by fall/winter go forth with the winter build.

do you think my gains would be worthwhile if i either chose the 270 or that nitrous grind you suggested? maybe i am better off getting some longtubes instead? i am really just feeling for that extra 20 hp i didnt make. if i can do it outside tearing apart the engine, thats a plus in itself.

57fairlane · Jan 21, 2010

xe274/trick flow stage 2.

The systemax is way too much intake for a n/a 302 but will be fine when you put the blower on.

But to be honest, when you put boost to it the intake/cam won't matter so much over what you have now because you will be in b-splitting range.

281pony · Jan 21, 2010

gonna run the tfs heads, stage 1, and systemax intake for now. ill build my engine on the side like i planned. i see alot of guys run this intake on 302s..

i bought it to be compatible with my future plans too. i know it will work with boost or a stroker combo.

Pratice · Jan 22, 2010

57fairlane said:
xe274/trick flow stage 2.

The systemax is way too much intake for a n/a 302 but will be fine when you put the blower on.

But to be honest, when you put boost to it the intake/cam won't matter so much over what you have now because you will be in b-splitting range.

I knew I should of went with a smaller intake...

281pony · Jan 22, 2010

Pratice said:
I knew I should of went with a smaller intake...

are those numbers on a stock bottom end in your sig? what kind of cam are you using? headers? you can pm me if you want.

Rick 91GT · Jan 22, 2010

Yes sorry I ment "old heads" do you have single springs or double springs? I've never had that issue, I email an internal rep or call and always get an immediate response, sorry to see you had issues. I wouldn't expect a large gain with the long tubes over what you have right now....aftermarket shorties I assume?

Off the top of my head the single springs are under 120 on the seat, the dual in the 125 range at the stock 1.78" installed height. Dont' get caught by these will accept up to a .542-600" lift cam, that just means they shouldn't coil bind at that lift. You need enough pressure to control the valve with what ever cam you pick.

The COMP XE lobes are aggresive and need a little spring pressure to work properly and not cause any issues. AFM make a nice TFS High Rev kit that will drop in and @ 1.80" installed it will yield 140# AF-HR-15018 if your interested, I've used that in the past with some pretty aggressive profiles. They have it all in one kit, easy....

For the comment about the Holley SysteMAX II being too large, it's all in the combo. My own old 302, 8.8:1 comp (notch pistons for cam), Holley heads, AFM N-61 cam .544/.568 228/236 110, stock internals, long tubes, full exhaust, 75mm TB, 80mm MAF, 4" Power Pipe...made 340RWHP and went 11.7 @ 116mph trapping only 5200rpm (I needed more gear then the 3:73 I had) I think with some 4:30's to take advantage of where the cam made power it would have went 11.40's. I had the 3:73 because with a 175 shot the car made 540RWHP/742RWTQ and trapped into the 6500 range @ 133mph+

Pratice · Jan 22, 2010

281pony said:
are those numbers on a stock bottom end in your sig? what kind of cam are you using? headers? you can pm me if you want.

The bottom end is stock. I'm using a xe276cam (224/230-112). BBK long tube headers. My build is similar to Ricks's 302. 75mm tb,4inch power pipe.

When I was doing the motor, I almost fell into the holley is too big trap. But after doing some research, I took the gamble.

I dont have track times yet though.

281pony · Jan 22, 2010

thanks for the input.

rick, pm sent.

281pony · Jan 22, 2010

i had some pics of my heads with the valve covers off. it looks as though they are just the single springs rick. i also noticed i have 1.6 rockers, not 1.7. perhaps that will slightly affect what cam i should choose..

gotta love canon camera's. i could zoom in on the scribing from 6 feet out to see they are 1.6 rockers

jka · Jan 23, 2010

You can run that cam with stock pistons but you will have to go with 1.6 rockers. But you're better off using the stage1 . Are you talking about the 270hr. If thats the cam you are talking i can't see you making much more power with a power band of 1800-5300 vs the stage1 you already have that got a power band of 2000-5500. maybe you will have more power down low but that's it. Is this the cam you are talking about comp cam 270-HR 215/224dur. .533/.533 lift. If that's the cam you are talking about then it will work with stock pistons with the use of 1.6 rockers.But i can tell you right now unless you are runing a supercharger it's not going to make much more power on a n/a motor. I would stick with the stage1 and save the $269.95 and plus i think comp cams are over rated and over priced. Plus if you get a supercharger later on that stage1 works good with blowers but you will get more lift with the compcam but remember bigger is not always better unless you have a stroker motor. On a n/a motor that's not a stroker you don't need alot of cam and if you pick the wrong cam you could be stuck with a cam that makes less horsepower than the stage1.KEEP THE STAGE1

scottmach · Jan 24, 2010

Have you tried contacting Anderson Ford? They have some good ots cams and if you email them they get right back to you.

281pony · Jan 25, 2010

i haven't fully made a decision yet, cause i haven't had the chance to spend my money. i sent in a form with full info to 1 custom grinder, left a voicemail/email with another. out of the 2 i've heard zero in 2 weeks. that is outside the comp cam ordeal to get nearly zero assistance. i thought the economy was tough? i guess nobody needs my money

i gotta give props though, to rick. he has been the only vendor/business to assist me out of 4 companies total now. for that reason, he will get my money when i do build my stroker shortblock. regardless of wait times or nickle and dime price differences, it will be with him.

i just wish i had the full amount now to do the stroker build.

jka · Jan 26, 2010

Are you going with a 306 or 331 or 347.

281pony · Jan 26, 2010

my plan is to put a little better combo in my 302. run it until i either get the money for a stroker or it lets go. then go over to a 347.

right now i was looking to see what ots cam i could gain power with, on my stock 302 bottom end.

Selecting cam for stock bottom end, good OTS?

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