Progress Thread Seriously? Another Boosted Coyote Swap Build? - Still Slowly Moving Forward

[Hoytster]

I'll add one more thing that I've learned lately. Best corning control requires a "square" wheel setup. By that I mean whatever you run up front you need to have in the rear. Same width wheels and tires all around. I say that because if you can only fit a 17x9 with a 275 tire up front then that's the widest you should run in the rear. Having narrower wheels up front and wider in the rear will make for a loose front end because the rear will have more grip. So don't get too carried away with tire clearance in the back because it's limited by what you run up front. This of course depends on how serious you want to hook in turns.

You're absolutely right and I should have mentioned that as one of my goals. I'm really aiming at the possibility to run 305-315s front and rear. I used to have a staggered setup on my 95' Cobra, and it worked well, but that's because at that time I was running a mainly stock suspension on the track and was trying to compensate for other suspension deficiencies. Only if I was switching to a SLA front end would I have considered a staggered setup with a SRA rear setup. I think it might be obvious at this point I want this thing to corner quite well. I'll mess with other items, other then the tires, if I don't like the handling balance I achieve.

 

[bird_dog0347]

You're absolutely right and I should have mentioned that as one of my goals. I'm really aiming at the possibility to run 305-315s front and rear. I used to have a staggered setup on my 95' Cobra, and it worked well, but that's because at that time I was running a mainly stock suspension on the track and was trying to compensate for other suspension deficiencies. Only if I was switching to a SLA front end would I have considered a staggered setup with a SRA rear setup. I think it might be obvious at this point I want this thing to corner quite well. I'll mess with other items, other then the tires, if I don't like the handling balance I achieve.

Sounds like you need to call up MM and ask for the Matt Farah package, his is square setup I think with 305's and supposedly handles great!

 

[Davedacarpainter]

I keep going back to your sfc's, is the reason that you didn't cut through the rear subframe because of retaining and reinforcing the original torque boxes?

I ask this because I will use those WR lower S-boxes. If i'm cutting out the old torque box anyhow, wouldn't this be an opportune time to run a set of connectors like yours? I mean with trimming the lower part of the rear subframe and weld it like you did with the front subframe? That would keep me from having to shape the lower part to fit the subframe too.

Then I might be able to do similar to what you did to your front by extending the sfc to the upward curve in the rear. All I would really need to account for is the two oblong holes for bolting up the trailing arms I think.

Don't mean to pull you off your train of thought, sorry.

But to keep doing it, where would I connect the front bracket for a torque arm using this style of connectors? Or is this when I give serious thought to an IRS? Lol.

I keep liking what you've done more and more as I think on it.

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

Sounds like you need to call up MM and ask for the Matt Farah package, his is square setup I think with 305's and supposedly handles great!

Unless he changed his tires recently I just saw a video of his car where he notes he has 18x10.5 wheels with Continental 295/35's all four corners. That's still a lot of tire for a Fox under 3k pounds.

 

[Hoytster]

I keep going back to your sfc's, is the reason that you didn't cut through the rear subframe because of retaining and reinforcing the original torque boxes?

I ask this because I will use those WR lower S-boxes. If i'm cutting out the old torque box anyhow, wouldn't this be an opportune time to run a set of connectors like yours? I mean with trimming the lower part of the rear subframe and weld it like you did with the front subframe? That would keep me from having to shape the lower part to fit the subframe too.

Then I might be able to do similar to what you did to your front by extending the sfc to the upward curve in the rear. All I would really need to account for is the two oblong holes for bolting up the trailing arms I think.

Don't mean to pull you off your train of thought, sorry.

But to keep doing it, where would I connect the front bracket for a torque arm using this style of connectors? Or is this when I give serious thought to an IRS? Lol.

I keep liking what you've done more and more as I think on it.

You got it, since this car is low mileage and the torque boxes are in decent shape, I'm just trying to augment what is there already. If I was replacing the boxes like you are planning, I would have definitely completely cut out the lowers like you described and fabbed them up into the curve of the rear rails for added strength. In that case, I would just window the new frame rail where the mounting bolts for the lower control arms go and weld in a piece of ~1.5" tubing to box the frame back in. In hindsight, I would do it this way even if I was keeping the frame rails like I did. I would also upsize the metal thickness of the frame rail to .120 since you are completely removing the stock frame rail. Those WR lower S-boxes are pretty sweet, if you do that, I'm definitely going to be paying attention.

Concerning the torque arm front bracket mounting, they usually just get mounted between the frame rails. To use the maximum motorsport one I was originally looking at, I was just going to weld mounting tabs on the insides of my frame rails to mount the mounting bracket too. Like this:

And no worries, not distracting my train of thought at all. I'm pretty random as it is Once I finish this IRS mounting stuff I'm going to get back to finishing the subframe bracing, stitch welding, and torque box reinforcements. I just wanted to get this IRS mounted and checked out before I reinforce the torque boxes to the point I can't hammer things into place if needed.

My car was no virgin so I was a little concerned the existing torque boxes were tweaked a little. Between the old style Lakewood traction bars, air bag in the passenger rear spring, old rubber in the wheel well, cracks in various sheet metal, and the supercharged GT40 package motor, this original NJ car definitely saw Englishtown Raceway a couple times. I even found old Englishtown tickets from the very early 90's in the back seat, this is all pretty nostalgic for me even though I couldn't even drive yet. Subframe connectors and torque box reinforcements were not mainstream yet, as you can see by the condition of my boxes and rear seat area. Luckily these weren't tweaked at all and everything checked out.

 

[Hoytster]

Unless he changed his tires recently I just saw a video of his car where he notes he has 18x10.5 wheels with Continental 295/35's all four corners. That's still a lot of tire for a Fox under 3k pounds.

I believe you're correct, according to his build sheet.

https://wheelwell.com/matt-farah/mnu/1988-ford-mustang

 

[Hoytster]

Sounds like you need to call up MM and ask for the Matt Farah package, his is square setup I think with 305's and supposedly handles great!

It does! If you get a chance, look at the video @FoxMustangLvr posted a few posts back. Watching Justin Bell drive his mustang is amazing. That video shows you what it takes to be just a 1/2 second faster and win.

 

[hoopty5.0]

Some dude sold a MM TA this weekend for $100. I thought really hard about it, but I can't right now.

 

[Hoytster]

Just to update my progress, I haven't had a chance to finish the IRS hard tail brackets since I am still waiting for some metal stock. Apparently 10 guage hot rolled sheet is not something my local shops stock normally, so I had to order it in. I should have a finished bracket(s) with cut-out dimensions by the end of this weekend, for anyone that is interested. I've decided to continue with this bracket design since I'm not going to need to gain any additional tire clearance with my current plans, and I think this design is strong enough. I will be reinforcing the IRS subframe itself down the road.

I did get the rear bump stops remove off the car (that was a PITA) and started on the additional subframe reinforcements while I'm waiting. I need to start selling some stuff soon, garage is starting to get full of parts I don't need.

 

[Hoytster]

Some dude sold a MM TA this weekend for $100. I thought really hard about it, but I can't right now.

That would have been a crazy good deal, but I understand. Priorities, like food and housing always come first.

 

[bird_dog0347]

Unless he changed his tires recently I just saw a video of his car where he notes he has 18x10.5 wheels with Continental 295/35's all four corners. That's still a lot of tire for a Fox under 3k pounds.

*User not responsible for *Fake News* posts after drinking Whiskey* (So basically all the time)

 

[bird_dog0347]

Some dude sold a MM TA this weekend for $100. I thought really hard about it, but I can't right now.

Your build is now in the baby steps where mine started (or even before that) given the kid. Your budget is GONE for the next 7-8 years, but you can sneak some stuff in as long as mama is happy. I learned that daycare in TX (good daycare) is minimum $200 per week per kid (or a little over $10k/yr for those who are worse at math than I am) so it gets stupid expensive fast if you both work. The good news is that once your kid(s) are in school full time the daycare/after-school cost is less than half, so basically more car parts. My boys just turned 10 and 7 so I'm about done with daycare/after-school care and I have a special bottle of wine set aside for the last check I write for them!

P.S. I know a great urologist if you're willing to migrate north and get fixed to prevent further car budget problems!

 

[hoopty5.0]

Your build is now in the baby steps where mine started (or even before that) given the kid. Your budget is GONE for the next 7-8 years, but you can sneak some stuff in as long as mama is happy. I learned that daycare in TX (good daycare) is minimum $200 per week per kid (or a little over $10k/yr for those who are worse at math than I am) so it gets stupid expensive fast if you both work. The good news is that once your kid(s) are in school full time the daycare/after-school cost is less than half, so basically more car parts. My boys just turned 10 and 7 so I'm about done with daycare/after-school care and I have a special bottle of wine set aside for the last check I write for them!

P.S. I know a great urologist if you're willing to migrate north and get fixed to prevent further car budget problems!

I’ll be in Dallas all week. Snip snip!

 

[bird_dog0347]

I've got a guest bed you're welcome to along with some frozen peas... the icing on the cake is if you keep it quiet you can try to talk the wife into a 2nd a year later (DON'T do this). And the ONLY thing I regret about my appointment was not having 1-2 drinks first to take the edge off. That first shot hurts like hell but after that it's not bad at all.

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

*User not responsible for *Fake News* posts after drinking Whiskey* (So basically all the time)

Glad to see I'm not the only one that suffers from this

I’ll be in Dallas all week. Snip snip!

You can't have just one bro! I am done though so I'll be setting up my neutering appointment very soon!

 

[Hoytster]

Lets keep this "kid" talk out of this thread, I've been dodging that bullet for 20 years and don't need to give her any ideas.

 

[Hoytster]

Finally finished up the IRS hardtail mount fabrication this afternoon. Was really enjoying this 55 degree weather with the garage door open for the first time since November.

I'm pretty happy with how this all turned out all things considering. This is as far as I am taking it at this point as I want to get back to the subframe reinforcements/torque box/stitch welding/cage and finish that all up. I have a plan for reinforcing the shock towers since I am going to be running coil overs. This will tie in with IRS hard tail mount as I will sleeve and through bolt the irs hardtail mount to the shock tower reinforcement. The shock tower reinforcement will then tie into the cage and another frame reinforcement I am planning on doing. I will also sleeve and through bolt other bolts on the hardtail mount. In the end, there will be a total of 5 bolts holding the hardtail mount to the frame and reinforcements. I'll detail all that in the near future once I get there. I will also be reinforcing the IRS subframe itself and will detail all that.

Anyways, here is what I ended up with. I have the entire process documented and all the measurements of the pieces required to reproduce what I did. Let me know if there is any interest in a "how-to" and I'll write it up and post it. I know my design is a little overkill for most, but it could be modified pretty easily to be a little less intense.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Finally finished up the IRS hardtail mount fabrication this afternoon. Was really enjoying this 55 degree weather with the garage door open for the first time since November.

I'm pretty happy with how this all turned out all things considering. This is as far as I am taking it at this point as I want to get back to the subframe reinforcements/torque box/stitch welding/cage and finish that all up. I have a plan for reinforcing the shock towers since I am going to be running coil overs. This will tie in with IRS hard tail mount as I will sleeve and through bolt the irs hardtail mount to the shock tower reinforcement. The shock tower reinforcement will then tie into the cage and another frame reinforcement I am planning on doing. I will also sleeve and through bolt other bolts on the hardtail mount. In the end, there will be a total of 5 bolts holding the hardtail mount to the frame and reinforcements. I'll detail all that in the near future once I get there. I will also be reinforcing the IRS subframe itself and will detail all that.

Anyways, here is what I ended up with. I have the entire process documented and all the measurements of the pieces required to reproduce what I did. Let me know if there is any interest in a "how-to" and I'll write it up and post it. I know my design is a little overkill for most, but it could be modified pretty easily to be a little less intense.

Again, welds look very pretty.

I like the idea of the IRS that your putting in the car, I won't have to make a firm decision on mine for at least another six months.

I do think I'll be doing my own version of your sweet sfc's though. That has to be soooo much more stout than the MM ones I had welded on my red car (not mine anymore).

I really appreciate you documenting this so well. Show the details of your cross bracing between the sfc's and the jacking rails when you get to that point. I was just going to buy Stifflers products for that, but now between you and Mike, I may make my own.

 

[Hoytster]

Again, welds look very pretty.

I like the idea of the IRS that your putting in the car, I won't have to make a firm decision on mine for at least another six months.

I do think I'll be doing my own version of your sweet sfc's though. That has to be soooo much more stout than the MM ones I had welded on my red car (not mine anymore).

I really appreciate you documenting this so well. Show the details of your cross bracing between the sfc's and the jacking rails when you get to that point. I was just going to buy Stifflers products for that, but now between you and Mike, I may make my own.

Thanks! I had thought about tig welding this piece, but decided against it since it really won't be seen and didn't want to add additional time. Once I strip the subframe and get it power coated after all the reinforcements it should all look pretty good.

I'll definitely post up pics of the cross bracing. That's my next step and will start on it Monday night after work (actually I already started but haven't gotten very far). I'm hoping to also update the CAD drawing I did of all the subframe reinforcements with final rough measurements of all the pieces so someone could reproduce what I did fairly easily. I'll do this after I finish one side. Thanks for letting me know you are appreciating this documentation, I was afraid I might be posting too much info for people.

I must say, the subframe reinforcement is quite strong already. I can jack all three corners of the car at once with a properly placed jack on a main rail. I remember when I installed the MM subframe connectors on my 95' it made a huge difference, but was not nearly as stiff as this is already.

 

[General karthief]

I am following this, I may never need this level, crap I know I'll never need this level but I really like the subframe like you did, looks like it belongs there, never liked the bars under the car just hang'n down a sht.