TFS 11R 170 Heads on a 331?

darkfader

Mustang Master
Feb 16, 2017
243
319
83
44
Davis, WV
I’m looking for a little advice as I’m about to assemble my stroker bottom end and take some final measurements and order the top end parts.

I called Trick Flow this morning with a few questions regarding the Track Heat top end kit and the guy suggested the 11R top end kit from Summit Racing. This is the kit:

The heads have a 53cc chamber and that cam has Advertised Duration 275/279, Lift .499/.510, Lobe Sep. 112

I asked about what intake would be suggested for that and he said either the Box or the Track Heat. He told me the kit made 432hp but I don’t know if that’s a stock 302 or what. Obviously I plan to call back with more questions but I was curious what experienced guys here thought about all this. My original plan was to bolt a Track Heat kit on and call it a day, but the thought of 80 more naturally aspirated HP certainly peaked my interest.

Of course I need to assemble the rotating assembly so I can measure deck clearance to calculate compression ratio, and maybe I can make a more informed decision but I’m curious what you more experienced guys think. Can anyone enlighten me on how this setup would perform on a street driven fox?
 
  • Sponsors(?)


RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
5 Year Member
Apr 26, 2010
2,666
1,232
174
Georgia
The heads will work good for a 331. The cam is pretty mild for a stroker setup. The intake is not bad, but there are better in my opinion. Although, there is really nothing wrong with any of those parts and they will work fine together.

Joe
 
  • Like
Reactions: darkfader

darkfader

Mustang Master
Feb 16, 2017
243
319
83
44
Davis, WV
The heads will work good for a 331. The cam is pretty mild for a stroker setup. The intake is not bad, but there are better in my opinion. Although, there is really nothing wrong with any of those parts and they will work fine together.

Joe
Joe, I’m curious what intake you might prefer for this? In the end, I’m wanting reliability and drivability for a car that will only be driven once in a while. I’ve already completed the suspension and brakes with full Maximum Motorsport coilovers, K member, Panhard bar, control arms, SFC’s and the brakes are 5lug ‘95 cobra front and rear. The rear end is fitted with 31 spline Moser axles, FRPP Trak-Loc and 3.73’s.

I figured long tubes, off road H, flowmaster catback, CAI, 30# injectors and a higher flowing fuel pump. Haven’t really researched TB’s yet but everything will be new and sized to match. Probably adding a megasquirt or Microsquirt depending on what will be the most sensible for my situation. I’ll certainly need to research the hell out of that soon too.

I appreciate your opinions.
 

96pushrod

Advanced Member
May 15, 2018
783
470
73
28
Savannah
I don’t know what you plan on keeping your stock hood, but with the box that’s tough to do. Don’t get me wrong, I love mine, just something to be aware of.

A systemax is a solid, well rounded intake as well. They fit well under stock hoods too.

I’d just get a 75mm or bigger Tb; you can’t go too big.

The megasquirt pnp systems are quite nice, stinger makes one that uses ms3 so you can keep the sequential injection. A microsquirt will also get done almost anything the average person needs.

And also, that trickflow cam wouldn’t even get it done for a decent 302, not gonna cut it for a 331. I would also just get the 190 or 205 heads. These are tried and true on strokers and stock bottem ends alike. Not to say the 170s won’t get the job done and it is a good price for the whole kit. Sucks you can’t get it with another cam though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: darkfader

darkfader

Mustang Master
Feb 16, 2017
243
319
83
44
Davis, WV
I don’t know what you plan on keeping your stock hood, but with the box that’s tough to do. Don’t get me wrong, I love mine, just something to be aware of.

A systemax is a solid, well rounded intake as well. They fit well under stock hoods too.

I’d just get a 75mm or bigger Tb; you can’t go too big.

The megasquirt pnp systems are quite nice, stinger makes one that uses ms3 so you can keep the sequential injection. A microsquirt will also get done almost anything the average person needs.

And also, that trickflow cam wouldn’t even get it done for a decent 302, not gonna cut it for a 331. I would also just get the 190 or 205 heads. These are tried and true on strokers and stock bottem ends alike. Not to say the 170s won’t get the job done and it is a good price for the whole kit. Sucks you can’t get it with another cam though.
I have no problem ordering things separately, in fact that’s probably what will happen anyway. I’m sure a custom cam is preferable in most situations from what I’ve read since getting the car.

So the 190 has a slightly larger CC. I’ll be limited by this once I’ve calculated my deck clearance since I’ve got to be able to stick with 91 octane, correct? I’m still trying to learn about compression ratio. I gather that I need to be 10.5:1 or less to use pump gas, right? I definitely want to be able to use pump gas. I haven’t fit the bottom end yet to check deck clearance so I can’t complete the compression calculations just yet. This is first on the to-do list though. The larger the CC, the lower the compression, but what does that do to the power? And do I still run the 1.6 rockers and just use a pushrod measurement tool to find the proper length there?

As far as the hood, I had my heart set on the heat extractor Cervini hood, which looks to actually dip down into the engine compartment at the vents. This “want” is based purely on aesthetics because I think they look badass. I suppose I’d need to call Cervini to get specifics on that hood. I’d really rather not have a cowl hood taller than the stock.

This is all pushing me back to the track heat kit. The multitude of possibilities makes it easy to be indecisive.
 

96pushrod

Advanced Member
May 15, 2018
783
470
73
28
Savannah
I have no problem ordering things separately, in fact that’s probably what will happen anyway. I’m sure a custom cam is preferable in most situations from what I’ve read since getting the car.

So the 190 has a slightly larger CC. I’ll be limited by this once I’ve calculated my deck clearance since I’ve got to be able to stick with 91 octane, correct? I’m still trying to learn about compression ratio. I gather that I need to be 10.5:1 or less to use pump gas, right? I definitely want to be able to use pump gas. I haven’t fit the bottom end yet to check deck clearance so I can’t complete the compression calculations just yet. This is first on the to-do list though. The larger the CC, the lower the compression, but what does that do to the power? And do I still run the 1.6 rockers and just use a pushrod measurement tool to find the proper length there?

As far as the hood, I had my heart set on the heat extractor Cervini hood, which looks to actually dip down into the engine compartment at the vents. This “want” is based purely on aesthetics because I think they look badass. I suppose I’d need to call Cervini to get specifics on that hood. I’d really rather not have a cowl hood taller than the stock.

This is all pushing me back to the track heat kit. The multitude of possibilities makes it easy to be indecisive.
One nice thing about the custom cam is that it is tailored to your car and driving habit. It’s a pretty good extra $50-$70 bucks to spend. And you don’t have to pour over pages of cam specs.

The extra combustion chamber volume will lower your compression ratio a couple points. It would be like going from 10.3 to 9.9 or so. That’s only About a percent and a half less power, barely noticible. With a quench of .040 ish you should be good to run 10.5:1 on 91 octane. I don’t think you’ll be quite that high though.

The track heat is a fine intake, I’d honestly rather have the systemax though. Or ditch your hood and get the box r lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: darkfader

FastDriver

My dad had a bra
SN Certified Technician
Sep 5, 2001
4,543
1,245
214
Seaside, CA
Old rule of thumb is 3% more power for every point of compression. I'd bet dollars to donuts you'd make more power with the 190cc heads, even if the combustion chamber is a bit larger. You could mill them down, but I wouldn't. Leaving the extra material means more ability to flatten them again between builds.

I like the Systemax Intake & a custom cam. I agree with the other comments. That cam is very small. It's not that it won't make power, but you're going to leave a lot on the table. I'm a believer in custom cams, and I've always used Ed Curtis on the expensive builds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: darkfader

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
5 Year Member
Apr 26, 2010
2,666
1,232
174
Georgia
I am with the others, the Holley is hard to beat. I would also buy the biggest heads I could within reason. Again, the kit you posted will run just fine, there is just more power to be made.

Joe
 
  • Like
Reactions: darkfader

96pushrod

Advanced Member
May 15, 2018
783
470
73
28
Savannah
I have no problem ordering things separately, in fact that’s probably what will happen anyway. I’m sure a custom cam is preferable in most situations from what I’ve read since getting the car.

So the 190 has a slightly larger CC. I’ll be limited by this once I’ve calculated my deck clearance since I’ve got to be able to stick with 91 octane, correct? I’m still trying to learn about compression ratio. I gather that I need to be 10.5:1 or less to use pump gas, right? I definitely want to be able to use pump gas. I haven’t fit the bottom end yet to check deck clearance so I can’t complete the compression calculations just yet. This is first on the to-do list though. The larger the CC, the lower the compression, but what does that do to the power? And do I still run the 1.6 rockers and just use a pushrod measurement tool to find the proper length there?

As far as the hood, I had my heart set on the heat extractor Cervini hood, which looks to actually dip down into the engine compartment at the vents. This “want” is based purely on aesthetics because I think they look badass. I suppose I’d need to call Cervini to get specifics on that hood. I’d really rather not have a cowl hood taller than the stock.

This is all pushing me back to the track heat kit. The multitude of possibilities makes it easy to be indecisive.
One nice thing about the custom cam is that it is tailored to your car and driving habit. It’s a pretty good extra $50-$70 bucks to spend.

The extra combustion chamber volume will lower your compression ratio a couple points. It would be like going from 10.2 to 9.9:1 cr. Wouldn’t be that dramatic.
 

darkfader

Mustang Master
Feb 16, 2017
243
319
83
44
Davis, WV
Thanks a lot for the input guys.

I suppose my plan of attack will be to assemble the bottom end and take measurements, and hope the 190 heads will fall within the compression calcs. Then I’ll contact Ed Curtis for the cam and go from there. I’ll plan on the Holley intake for when that time comes as well.

Thanks again!
 

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
5 Year Member
Apr 26, 2010
2,666
1,232
174
Georgia
He's notoriously tough to talk to. Just go here: http://www.flowtechinduction.com/cam-tech-form/ Fill out the form and then email it to him. If you need help with any of the questions, we're happy to help.
Yeah, tough as in you WILL NOT hear the man's voice unless you are some type of repeat customer.

I did a 331 with afr 185s, the Holley intake and one of his cans. It does run well for what it is. I think you will like the results.

Joe
 
  • Like
Reactions: darkfader

FastDriver

My dad had a bra
SN Certified Technician
Sep 5, 2001
4,543
1,245
214
Seaside, CA
Haha. It makes me feel pretty good that he's always taken my call. Though, last time he asked, "How did you get this number?" From you! 10 years ago, you old crotchety Bastage! j/k... He's really a nice man. He actually talked me through adjusting my rocker arms and aligning my cam for around an hour on the phone when I was 19 and that was the first time I'd done more than an accessory. But, I've heard how tough it is from everyone else.
 

Mustang5L5

i'm familiar with penetration
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
32,888
9,051
224
Massachusetts
Just a heads up, my custom cam came with a requirement to use different springs on my tfs170 heads. An extra $300 expense.

If you really don't want to do that, then make sure you note the spring specs and specify you want to keep them. It may change your grind.

I had no issues buying my cam. I paid for it, sent him my mod list and wishes and 3 weeks later got a cam
 
  • Like
Reactions: darkfader

mikestang63

SN Certified Technician
Aug 27, 2012
9,877
6,666
204
In the garage
Haha. It makes me feel pretty good that he's always taken my call. Though, last time he asked, "How did you get this number?" From you! 10 years ago, you old crotchety Bastage! j/k... He's really a nice man. He actually talked me through adjusting my rocker arms and aligning my cam for around an hour on the phone when I was 19 and that was the first time I'd done more than an accessory. But, I've heard how tough it is from everyone else.
just don't tell Ed you voted for Obama...lol
 

FastDriver

My dad had a bra
SN Certified Technician
Sep 5, 2001
4,543
1,245
214
Seaside, CA
Ha! I was his friend on facebook for a while. I'm a conservative leaning independent, and I still couldn't take all of his rants, lol. Yeah, you definitely don't want his Obama-cam, lol.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
PakstinN cam swap w/ 11r 190 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 16
J Engine PRW rockers, TFS heads, and pushrod length Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 2
L 90 5.0 Turbo TFS heads stock cam Help tuning ASE Digital Self-tuning Forum 16
S 98 tfs heads or pi? 2005 - 2014 S-197 Mustang -General/Talk- 1
9 WTB/Trade 302 lower intake/TFS streetburner Engine and Power Adder Parts 1
J Timeserts and TFS heads experience Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 40
BKM48198 TFS stage 1 cam advance amount??? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 8
Reddevil91 Tfs R Series Craigslist Find 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 24
BKM48198 Fox Advice On Engine Combo Needed, Have Tfs Heads & Cam 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 4
mustangramair SOLD Tfs Stage 1 Cam, Tfs Valve Springs, Hydraulic Roller Lifters Engine and Power Adder 0
Reddevil91 Tfs 170? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 9
Sweetcaroline88GT Tfs Heads With Broken Spring Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 5
autopart101 SOLD Tfs 351 Intake 80mm Holly Tb Vortech Fuel Rails Engine and Power Adder 1
BKM48198 Setting Valve Lash/preload On Tfs Heads.......1/2,3/4, Or 1 Full Turn Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 5
BKM48198 Which Spark Plugs To Use On Tfs 170 Heads? Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 8
S Engine Stuck/seized Tfs Aluminum Head 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 0
BKM48198 Best Gaskets For A Set Of Tfs 170 Heads? Felpro9333 Or ?? Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 9
WhiteCobra95 Engine Inlet Adaptor: Tfs Or Edelbrock? 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 3
S Expired Tfs Cast Iron High Port Cylinder Heads Tfs60194 Other Classifieds 0
fiveohlover What To Expect From Comp Polymer Box Upper And Gt 40 To Switch To Holley Sytemax Or Tfs R Intake 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 58
krazedstang Tfs 170's 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 12
A5literMan Progress Thread Tfs 205cc 302 Build 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 250
B Tfs-r Or Edelbrock Performer Rpm Ii Intake 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 5
deathb4dismount Valve Covers For Tfs Heads 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 2
mikestang63 Tfs Head Group Purchase? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 27
Grabbin' Asphalt Tfs 170 Ported Support 363ci N/a 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 19
90lxwhite What Fuel Pump And Injectors Tfs Top End 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 42
90lxwhite Bang For My Buck: V3 Or Tfs 170 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 42
the_david Feeler: 1994 Mustang Gt, Tfs Upper, T64e Turbo SN95 Mustangs For Sale (1994-04) 4
mikestang63 Nice Video On Tfs Spring Install Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 3
dcurtis Cracked Tfs Head Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 8
C Crane 2031 Or Tfs Stage 1? 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 10
jaketuff Tfs Top End... Evolved??? Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 28
KDK1988GT Part Number Tfs 9827992???? Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 0
stangstalx TFS twisted wedge 170s Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 7
C SOLD ** NIB Crane Cam (TFS Stage 2 eq) ** $150 shipped ** Engine and Power Adder 6
Mattstang04 New TFS intake 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk- 10
R Engine Sn95 4.6 Turbo Or 5.0 Tfs Top End SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech 3
O Help With Tfs Box R Manifold 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 0
smitty1991 Expired Complete Tfs Head Setup Engine and Power Adder 5
InMyPrimeSVT Engine Would I Benefit From A Tfs Stage 1 Cam On My Vortech Setup? 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech 8
Topher306 Installing Tfs Street Burner Intake Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 3
fiveohlover Help With Tfs Heads On Stock 302 Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 42
smitty1991 Typhoon Intake,tfs Cam,42lb Injectors And More Engine and Power Adder 13
JasinC19 24lb injectors TFS Manifold Fitment Issues Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 12
JasinC19 TFS Top End Kit Rocker to Guide Plate Height Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 13
JasinC19 Ugly gash in TFS intake manifold Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 21
JasinC19 TFS Twisted Wedge Heads: Torque long bolts an extra 10? Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 2
ford_thoroughbred 5.0 gt40p top end and tfs stage 2 cam 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- 2
Rick 91GT Greg @ TFS Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech 0
Similar threads