Build Thread The Hoopty Chronicles - New House, New garage, New Car?

[a91what]

Timing is a tricky animal. CR, quench area, head design, piston speed, boost and octane all play the timing game.

Easiest way to do this assuming that you are using a modern head (trickflow, afr ect) with no greater than 10:1 CR, stock style piston (flat with notches), 93 octane.

Run no greater than 30* timing NA all in by 2500 rpm. Set the timing curve so that at 170kpa (that's the same as 10psi) you have 20*
Then by 203kpa (15psi) you have 16*

These are conservative numbers to use as a starting point.

This is a starting point, you may need less timing depending on the quench area ( compression ratio and quench area or not necessarily the same) quench will cause the flame front to move faster, meaning you need less timing to make the same amount of power. more will only cause detonation.

Piston speed has everything to do with the rod to crank ratio more piston speed will cause more turbulence in the combustion chamber which will also cause a faster burn with boost.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Timing is a tricky animal. CR, quench area, head design, piston speed, boost and octane all play the timing game.

Easiest way to do this assuming that you are using a modern head (trickflow, afr ect) with no greater than 10:1 CR, stock style piston (flat with notches), 93 octane.

Run no greater than 30* timing NA all in by 2500 rpm. Set the timing curve so that at 170kpa (that's the same as 10psi) you have 20*
Then by 203kpa (15psi) you have 16*

These are conservative numbers to use as a starting point.

This is a starting point, you may need less timing depending on the quench area ( compression ratio and quench area or not necessarily the same) quench will cause the flame front to move faster, meaning you need less timing to make the same amount of power. more will only cause detonation.

Piston speed has everything to do with the rod to crank ratio more piston speed will cause more turbulence in the combustion chamber which will also cause a faster burn with boost.

Max timing should be easy, as there are scads of N/A combo's running as much timing as can be used before detonation for reference. ( I'm thinking a late model aluminum aftermarket head w/ 10:1 in a 351 wind bone should tolerate up to 38 degrees).

From there though, the timing should fall through the floor as it moves through N/A into boost. Now it becomes tricky. Set rules of thumb w/ regard as to how much timing to pull per pound of boost don't apply as there are too many variables to consider, Obviously using E85 over Pump gas would start w/ a more forgiving octane number, but the whole mess as a whole runs so much colder you cannot even attempt a side-by-side. You'd have to run like 110 Rocket race gas to have comparable anti-detonation characteristics, but the burn temps in the E 85 chamber are still gonna be colder than hell..There are X275 cars out there that don't even need to wrap the down pipes because they never get hot enough to melt sht..(Course that's straight Meth,...but you get the idea).

The only rule you can follow is to start fat enough, and pull out a lot of timing initially. Stop going straight to 15-20p.s.i.....
Start and stay w/ conservative boost numbers as a point of reference that won't hammer the hell outta the rod bearings get a safe AFR established,....look at the plugs (several of them), and then move up from there..

There are calculators out there to scare/show you just how high the CR goes when you start forcing air into the engine in the form of boost....I've linked this one, cause you can change thigs and it spits out new data as often as you choose..
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/compression.htm

So,....yeah....you see that an engine that starts life w/ a 10:1 CR at sea level that gets 15 p.s.i dumped into it now has an effective CR of over 20:1......You effectively doubled the atmosphere (like were living on Jupiter now) and you expect your poor old JY 351 w/ stock rods and Sealed Power pistons to live in that environment?


Use good stuff if you intend to dump 15 p.s.i into the engine...At the very least, basic machine practices like a rod rebuild w/ good bolts, with good pistons that'll tolerate a few mistakes,...Keep in mind that boost increases cylinder pressure exactly the same way that a dome does on a high compression piston (only exponentially). and having a static CR of 10:1 leaves very little leeway for a mistake.



** Mic drop

 

[a91what]

+1 Mike.

My advice is based on my personal experience I used to run more timing NA and then drop more as a transition in the Boost. However I found a smoother transition running Less NA timing with a smaller drop

 

[RaggedGT]

Saw a Fb meme today-is that one yours?

 

[hoopty5.0]

Saw a Fb meme today-is that one yours?

Nope.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Nope.

What? are you and I in a "I don't care if I ever get it running" contest?

I lose.

The sign below your name says Mod,...Where did you volunteer to babysit? It's certainly not here,...I've been closet movin' and merging stuff for the last month.

And now all you give rags is a one word answer?

"So tired,......must.......get........some rest................................................................................"

 

[hoopty5.0]

What? are you and I in a "I don't care if I ever get it running" contest?

I lose.

The sign below your name says Mod,...Where did you volunteer to babysit? It's certainly not here,...I've been closet movin' and merging stuff for the last month.

And now all you give rags is a one word answer?

"So tired,......must.......get........some rest................................................................................"

No, my buddy doing the powder coating is/was way backed up. And since I'm getting the brother-in-law deal, I sit at the back of the line. I texted him last weekend to see if he had started and the gist was no. He was supposed to move to a bigger space, but it didn't have 3 phase power, so now he's staying. Before that, TX2K17 was in full swing and all the shops were cramming to get their cars ready, so he was slammed with that.
Some of you may have seen the M2K motorsports GT go 293.6 mph this weekend, well they were thrashing to get that car back together too. Guess who did all the powder coating on that one? You guessed it - my buddy.

Sooo, I don't have a good answer for when.

Also, I still haven't made it to get the "new" short block yet. It's 1 1/2 hours each way to grab it, so I just havent seen the need to get it yet if I can't do anything with it.

I promise, the car will get done, just not sure when.

 

[tannerc91gt]

What? are you and I in a "I don't care if I ever get it running" contest?

"

You two are fighting for second place

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

You two are fighting for second place

No,...Mine is running,....I already conceded.

 

[hoopty5.0]

I'm very seriously considering buying a JY 302 to stick in my car just to get it back on the road. I honestly have no idea when I'll get all my stuff back from coating. Thoughts?

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I'm very seriously considering buying a JY 302 to stick in my car just to get it back on the road. I honestly have no idea when I'll get all my stuff back from coating. Thoughts?

I think a running car is more fun than one that doesn't.

If the 302 you're talkin about is a straight drop-n-swap, and you don't have to change out anything,....(and you can live with it as it comes) then You go Boy!

 

[Black1987]

I'm very seriously considering buying a JY 302 to stick in my car just to get it back on the road. I honestly have no idea when I'll get all my stuff back from coating. Thoughts?

Go ahead and then drive it, nothing worse than having a car in the way you cannot move. Plus a fox in stock form is fun to drive or even if you were putting the turbo stuff back on....drive it like you stole it.

 

[hoopty5.0]

Ive got 3 weeks until MS 150 (shameless plug - http://main.nationalmssociety.org/site/TR?px=14810171&pg=personal&fr_id=28263&s_src=BF_emailbadge) , which is the bike ride I'm training for right now. If nothing materializes by then, I may go that route.

I could just stick the 351 back in, buy some sh*tty swap headers and do that, now that I think about it. It will be a slug, but it runs.

 

[RangerJoe]

You have a coyote to drive around. I say no short cuts, wait it out.

Joe

 

[Chuckman]

meh, having both........fox > coyote. just something about a loud obnoxious cramped rattletrap that wants to kill you

 

[NIKwoaC]

So I think I'm kind of caught up... Just in time to see you've got it torn apart. Bummer!

Keep at it man, I love simple 351 setups that make good power... Thus why I've had that 351 block holding my engine stand down for the past few years. Someday... Someday...

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Ok, I've been patient......

What's going on here? Powder coating done? Rebuild done?

Come on! Feed a starving old man!

 

[HotFox]

Give him a break, yesterday was the big MS ride!

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/hate-to-ask-but-need-help-if-you-can.888916/page-5

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Jeez, how did i miss that?

Well Collin? How's the knee now?

 

[Boosted92LX]

Geez. I knew it was coming up but had no idea about the donation thing. :/