The Truth about FOX FRONT BRAKES!

latham83 · Feb 17, 2004

if i DO buy the 73mm's..do i need to look for rotors that fit those calipers or just get the 87-93 STOCK rotors as listed....
also MM has this for hawk pads.....84-86 SVO (front calipers are 73mm) is that what i would buy then?
but still look for MY year of rotors

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 17, 2004

latham83 said:
what about clearance issues with the 73mm's??? are they the SAME dimensions as the stock calipers or not..cause i have aftermakrt rims...??

and will the hawk pads have ZERO noise and squeak with a stock rotor?

They are the same size, only the piston is bigger. Brake noise is cause by high frequency vibrations. Use some brake quiet stuff on the outside of the pads. Some pads now come with a paper-like material on the outside of the pad, such as on newer mustangs....buy the new calipers, make it look like you own a Lincoln, then go back and return the cores after your done, they won't know the difference between the calipers, unless the measure the piston, or compare them, and why would they do that? Overe here they don't even open the box, they just take it and give you your money back, no questions asked....

As for why pads wear faster on drilled/slotted rotors, the reason is most likely the pads getting shaved by the holes, something like how a cheese grater works....

Xtreme Limits · Feb 17, 2004

benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors........ COOLING THATS IT!!!

a non-sloted rotor will always girp better, but they cant stand up too stop after stop!

So whats better is non-sloted, but if your road raceing , then sloted cus, non-sloted will fade!

WHY DO YOU THINK YOUR FLYWHEELS FLAT A.K.A. NON-SLOTED!

CUS IT HAS MORE SUFACE , GRIPS BETTER PLAIN IN SIMPLE!

DONT START A FLAME THREAD CUS YOUR GOING TO GET BURNED!

YOU HONDA LOVER !

QCStang · Feb 17, 2004

custom89stang said:
Right. No need to upgrade master cylinder or booster. Just make sure to get ur brakes bled/flushed. As for stock rotors, it doesnt really matter. Personally i'd keep the ones you have right now, unless they are at their end. Then i would get some remanufactured (if they even have them?) or get the cheapest ones i can find. stock rotors ARE stock rotors.

Would they work on an 84?

87gtconv · Feb 17, 2004

Try Brembo not slotted non drilled they make a lot of OEM rotors and they are cheap! I got some for another car at Tire Rack! Also, the SS sleves fit on the Lincoln 73 MM calipers just like the stock ones! I know I put them on!

custom89stang · Feb 17, 2004

wait wait wait, did you just say 60mm and 73mm are the same size? LMAO

Okay nevermind you said pistons.

But anyways, yeah it works like a cheese grader, so with the slotted rotor, it grabs better just like a cheese grater grabs the cheese. wow....talking about cheese in a mustang forum!

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 17, 2004

QCStang said:
Would they work on an 84?

I am assuming you are asking about the 73mm calipers.
To answer that question:
No, you need 87-93 5.0 Spindles, rotors and calipers.

Stang951 · Feb 17, 2004

OK how do you figure that you don't have to change the master cylinder?
I changed from 2.3L 10" brakes to the 11.5" brakes when I did the 351W swap. I got the master cylinder for the 4cyl. I am finding out that because of the smaller bore of the master cylinder I am not pushing as much fluid through the system and have to stand on the pedal to get it to stop. When you upgrade to the 73MM calipers there is even more of a difference between the calipers. BIGGER CALIPERS NEED MORE VOLUME TO MOVE THE PISTONS IN THEM. Why do you think that most upgrade kits come with new master cylinders.
You can use the stock master cylinder, but you will have wasted your energy and time because you will not be able to move the piston as easily as with a larger bore master cylinder. You may even see diminished braking becuase of it.

SmockDoiley · Feb 17, 2004

If people have an issue about cracking crossdrilled rotors, then just get the slotted ones. Also, slotted or crossdrilled do provide better braking for obvious reasons already posted. I dont know why we are even arguing about the info on their sites because everything on the web should be taken with a grain of salt. IMHO, they should remove all information about pre 87 cars because they dont know what the hell they are talking about. His argument will be that its only guidelines, but if you dont have the full scoop, dont run the story!! I take his advice and decide to do the swap for my 85 Mustang and I come to find out that he left out a crap load of valuable information. When I called him on it, he gets an attitude and calls me stupid. I figured out the info, but SORRY for trying to get some help from another stanger. His bitterness and inability to help me just showed me that he had no idea what he was talking about. For your info retard, you cant just change the spindles on an 86 and older car because you have to change the struts too, or modify them. But that isnt on your site is it? No, I didnt think so. Thanks for the no headsup on needing adapters for all the brake lines too, but I resolved that on my own too. Stop bragging about being a brake pro if your going to be overly cocky and give a better-than-thou attitude about everything. Dont get pissed when I know more about something than you. And fix your fraggin site with the correct info instead of giving us all a bum scoop. I understand the site is engineered toward 87-93 Mustangs but if your going to give advice about other cars then be prepared to hear it when you screw up which you did. Thats my 2.

latham83 · Feb 17, 2004

well wtf..some ppl say i need a bigger master cylinder for 73mm's and some dont...whats the deal?
i dont wanna spend the money on one!!! how mucha re they anyway?
is my stock gonna work or not...who is running it

custom89stang · Feb 17, 2004

Stang951, you dont HAVE TO, but you are right, would be better to get a better master cylinder, etc. but the guy we are talking to is on a tight budget.

PLUS, with the stainless upgrade/the caliper bushings and the brakes bled with new fluid, he should do fine with the 73mm calipers!

latham83 · Feb 17, 2004

alright sounds like a plan man..i thank all u guys for the help i couldnt do all this sweet
shiit without ya's... i am doing about 4000 worth of work for a new 306 right now and im trying to find the best upgrades for the best money possible...
is my stopping power gonna be like 100 times better over stock or what!? lol

miamifiveoh · Feb 17, 2004

latham83:

Don't forget a followup post on how your brakes are after following the advice on this thread.

latham83 · Feb 17, 2004

why do u ask that??? being sarcastic?
u sayin im going to have alot of trouble or something

Stang951 · Feb 17, 2004

You might want to consied swapping the MC down the road, especially if you want to go with rear discs later. I went with a 94-98 mc and booster for the 2 port design to make the roll control install easier, and bexcause I want rear discs in the future. Plus the benefit of better braking with the 73mm's

Mustang5L5 · Feb 17, 2004

custom89stang said:
That came from MATT90GT and BLACKFOX5.0, I KNOW GT40XStang9, its a bunch of BS! Hate people who dont know what they're talking about.

Why did you feel the need to make a new thread about this subject? Also it would perhaps not be a good idea to call BS and proclaim your HATE for a ser senior members that have been around for a long time. I already replied to the other thread but maybe i should cut/paste what i said there here.

custom89stang said:
Okay, Matt and BlackFox5.0, I dont care how smart you think you are. But if you think that a full rotor (non-slotted/dimpled) is better because it has more surface area you are flat out wrong. Slotted/dimpled rotors are better. Unless you want to show me some actually tests Matt and BlackFox5.0 and anyone else, you HAVE to quit giving false information..

True...but they are not wrong in this case.

Why slotted/dimpled rotors are better?

1. Non Slotted/dimpled dont release as much heat, i dont care what kind of pads you have, the more heat, the worse the braking. The whole point of Slotted/dimpled is to cool the brakes.!!!

How do they not release as much heat? Are they made out of a new space age metal? Heat is produced by friction. You need friction to stop. You cannot generate friction without heat. A FULL out emergency stop from 100MPH is going to generate the same amount of heat in the rotor no matter what type of rotor you are wearing.

2. You say that a Non Slotted/dimpled has more surface area for breaking and that is why they are better thats wrong to. !!!

Yes it does. Think about it. All those holes and slots...hey no brake pad touches those. You want to stop...brake pad needs to TOUCH THE ROTOR!!! You want maxiumum stopping power, get as much pad contact as possible.

Also, #2....drilling and slotting REMOVED mass from the rotor. Go back to what i said earlier about the same amount of heat being produced no matter what rotor is on the car. This heat NEEDS to go somewhere. It is absorbed into the rotor and the energy is spread to all the molecules evenly. Now, a solid rotor has more molecules to absorb this so the overall temp of the rotor stays slightly cooler. A rotor that is cooler has less of a chance of warping plus overheating brakes can lessen the ability of stopping.

Also, all solid, drilled, slotted rotors have the same internal directional venting. The air gets sucked in from the center of the rotor on the backside and pumped outward centrifigally through the vanes. This is where MOST of the cooling comes from. It's a simple centrifigal pump design that works very well.

The drilled holes are not in any spot to aid airflow. The are perpendicular to the airstream and therefor quite useless when it comes to getting anything to actually flow through them. The drilled holes are for gases to escape and there hasn't been a street pad that produces gases made in 30 years.

The holes and slots give the Brakes better grabbing ability to slow down and like they pointed out above, less mass.....!!!

Like i said...how can you grab empty air?? I'm gonna go drill holes in my flywheel because the clutch will grab harder if i do that. It's the same concept as drilled rotors isn't it? But i would be the laughingstock of stangnet if i drilled my flywheel now wouldn't I?

To prove my point, why do you think brake pads with dimpled/slotted rotors where out faster? You'd think since they'd have less surface area they would wear out slower, but they dont! NEWSFLASH, they grab better and wear out faster because they are better with breaking. More of the pad gets scraped off because they grab the slots/dimples better.

Wearing out pads means better braking? Shoot...that must mean my sis's eclipse can stop from 100MPH in 90 feet because it goes through a set of pads in 10,000 miles.

I have not seen any data showing pads wear out faster with slotted/drilled rotors. Taking someone's word for it who has these rotors doesn't mean much because there are so many variables such as driving style, etc. Until i see a real test of sort sort, this doesn't hold weight to me.

Plus it's pretty hard for the 0.5" of the pad over the drilled hole to be pressed in any more than the rest of the pad at any given time. It's going to stay flush with the surface of the rotor because the rest of the pad is pressing on it.

I like your passion for this subject, but your ideas are flawed.

3spd on floor said:
care to elaborate on how a PLAIN rotor has a larger surface area to dissapate heat than a slotted or drilled rotor?

Ok imagine this. Take a rotor...now drill some holes. Hey, you just took out mass and your "airholes" are perpendicular to the airflow that will go around the rotor. Therefore any surface area inside the drilled hole is useless.

Same deal with slotted...the slots are recessed away from the direction of airflow. Therefore they are useless for channeling air. Look at any impellar design and you will see the vanes need to channel water/air whatever from a central point. The slots on the rotor...just appear. The pad covers the slot. And as before...less mass to absorb heat.

This is why we say there is more surface area on solid rotors...think of the direction of airflow across the rotor. More metal for the faster flowing air to be in contact with.

You guys are almost making me want to take a set of rotors down to our wind tunnel and do some testing.

Anything else??

Mustang5L5 · Feb 17, 2004

Also, any of you guys contemplating the 73mm Caliper upgrade SHOULD upgrade your MC. The 73's require 21% more fluid volume flow to achieve the same braking pressure as the stock 60's.

The stock MC is not capable of this. You really should upgrade. What's the point of larger calipers not operating at 100%?

What will happen is you will have great stopping ability around town and you can still lock the wheels. But the first time you come to a "panic" situation, you will slam on the brakes and your heart rate will increase when the pedal goes to the floor and your rate of stopping does not increase proportionally. Trust me...I have done the swap without the MC. Not a good feeling.

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 17, 2004

The best thing to do is to add more cooling to your stock brakes, such as brake ducts, but most of you will never get your rotors up to temps that will effect the brakes enough that they would need this kind of cooling.

Also some pads today still emmit gasses, but only when they are VERY hot, such as in F1 racing, they go from 100+mph and stop very rapidly, over and over again, have you ever watched an F1 race? notice how fast the slow down coming into a turn? Now can you imagine the temps of the brakes after constant repetition? They have holes in thier rotors (not drilled, but cast into the rotor) that will allow the gases from the compounds that hold the pads together (like a glue) that bake up and emmit gas.

Unless you are doing racing like this, Slotted/drilled rotors are of no use to you. You should never see any non stock type of rotor on any cars. If you do then, the owner obviously knows nothing about braking, and "thinks" they are good, or they just want the look of it.

In conclusion, slotted or cast hole rotors should only be used in applications such as Open Track and the like. Otherwise they are just useless, and only for asthetics.

RydeOn · Feb 17, 2004

Didnt waste my time reading all the bickering but... Those that say slotted or cross drilled rotors dont work better on the street obviously havent driven that many cars. All the ones Ive used I noticed an IMMEDIATE difference. They are not cosmetic upgrades, they actually do work, quite well.

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 17, 2004

Are you sure the difference wasn't from going from old glazed rotors and pads to freshly cut rotors with new pads?

The Truth about FOX FRONT BRAKES!

latham83

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latham83

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latham83

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