Fox Traction control

[Sparky714]

Upgrading from a Megasquirt DIYPNP to a MS3Pro Ecu this winter so I have more options for inputs and outputs. The biggest one I'm looking into doing is traction control. I know the easiest way is to upgrade to SN95 spindles and use the antilock brake bracket for the front wheel sensor, but I have three full sets of 4 lug tires and wheels, so I'm not interested in going 5 lug. I've found some information on guys making their own brackets for a hall effect sensor and using the back of the wheel studs as pickups. But from what I'm reading, it doesn't work great at low speed. You need a reluctor wheel with more teeth. Has anyone modified a sensor wheel or had one made to work on a stock 4 lug brake disk?

 

[rednotch]

Turbo coupe front rotors if stockish 4lug is fine, the tone ring is on the rotors, explorer 8.8 pull out diff for cheap gears and tone ring but not going to find much info online for budget home brew stuff like that anymore at least not in detail now that most people are on ty social media type sites now.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWyUPVkziHo
. Should be able to see how most of the turbo coupe abs was layed out in this video for an idea of how to do it.

 

[Sparky714]

Turbo coupe front rotors if stockish 4lug is fine, the tone ring is on the rotors, explorer 8.8 pull out diff for cheap gears and tone ring but not going to find much info online for budget home brew stuff like that anymore at least not in detail now that most people are on ty social media type sites now.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWyUPVkziHo
. Should be able to see how most of the turbo coupe abs was layed out in this video for an idea of how to do it.

That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Thanks!

 

[General karthief]

Foxbody traction control

 

[rednotch]

Foxbody traction control

Sadly that don't work any more these days unless you find a real no electronics class, traction control tech these days is nuts.

 

[Noobz347]

Not to mention that it doesn't interface with the Megasquirt.

 

[Sparky714]

Not to mention that it doesn't interface with the Megasquirt.

Foxbody traction control

I plan on wiring a switch so I can use your old school method, or the Megasquirt, depending on the situation

 

[Mustang5L5]

traction control tech these days is nuts.

It really is. These systems work so fast these days compared to 20 years ago. The T/C setup in my '00 GT is horrible, but the setup in the GT500 I drove on track was just simple amazing.

 

[nicholase]

I'm not framilar with the MS stufff. So if this is wrong I apologize. A quick search says the MS3Pro has several traction control strategies. I'd give the perfect run / perfect pass style a try. It doesn't utilize wheel speed sensors or any wiring. It compares VSS / RPM against an adjustable pre set curve acceleration curve.

I'm running this style strategy traction control with my ProM / Motiv8 EMS. It works awesome. No sensors or rings. It does take some tweaking (and tearing around town) to get it dialed in. Once set up though it feels very natural. I'd assume the MS3 would operate similar to my set up.

Essentially you program a curve of what is maximum realistic acceleration. Anytime it sees RPM / VSS increase faster than the pre set curve it's considered wheel spin and ignition is reduced. I can set up maximum degrees of ignition retard per percentage of deviation from the sweep.

What's nice about this method is that it can be set up to still allow some wheel spin. That gives it a much more natural feeling and you don't have that weird bogging feeling you experience in modern cars with the tech. I set it up where it still spins through first and second and leaves black marks on the road. But its controlled.

IMO T/C is essential in a higher powered fox. I leave it in all the time. I'd do some research on that strategy and see if its something you'd like to try.

 

[Sparky714]

I'm not framilar with the MS stufff. So if this is wrong I apologize. A quick search says the MS3Pro has several traction control strategies. I'd give the perfect run / perfect pass style a try. It doesn't utilize wheel speed sensors or any wiring. It compares VSS / RPM against an adjustable pre set curve acceleration curve.

I'm running this style strategy traction control with my ProM / Motiv8 EMS. It works awesome. No sensors or rings. It does take some tweaking (and tearing around town) to get it dialed in. Once set up though it feels very natural. I'd assume the MS3 would operate similar to my set up.

Essentially you program a curve of what is maximum realistic acceleration. Anytime it sees RPM / VSS increase faster than the pre set curve it's considered wheel spin and ignition is reduced. I can set up maximum degrees of ignition retard per percentage of deviation from the sweep.

What's nice about this method is that it can be set up to still allow some wheel spin. That gives it a much more natural feeling and you don't have that weird bogging feeling you experience in modern cars with the tech. I set it up where it still spins through first and second and leaves black marks on the road. But its controlled.

IMO T/C is essential in a higher powered fox. I leave it in all the time. I'd do some research on that strategy and see if its something you'd like to try.

This is why I come to StangNet for a lot of my info. This is great information and I will definitely be doing more research on it. My new setup makes 600hp to the tires, and consistent traction on a hard launch with a stick car is pretty tough. My 60' times are absolute trash, but once I get it to hook, it pulls like freight train. This might be a simpler solution than trying to figure out a wheel sensor. Thank you!

 

[Mustang5L5]

I actually have not messed with that feature in MS3 quite yet, but now I am curious about it.

I think I'll have to wait until next spring/summer to set it up. Temps in the 40's here now and on summer rubber so I don't think doing some WOT tuning is smart right now

 

[Sparky714]

I actually have not messed with that feature in MS3 quite yet, but now I am curious about it.

I think I'll have to wait until next spring/summer to set it up. Temps in the 40's here now and on summer rubber so I don't think doing some WOT tuning is smart right now

My MS2 DIYPNP has worked awesome since I soldered it together 10 or 11 years ago. But I'm limited on features with it. I need a winter project and DIYAUTOTUNE currently has their Black Friday sale going on, so perfect time to upgrade. I also ordered it through Chris Salmon, the remote tuner recommended to me by Steven VanOrder. Chris helped me out with some driveability tuning on my new setup, and he's also a DIYAUTOTUNE dealer. He even saved me a little money over the Black Friday pricing. So if anyone is looking for a Megasquirt tuner, I highly recommend Chris.

 

[nicholase]

This is why I come to StangNet for a lot of my info. This is great information and I will definitely be doing more research on it. My new setup makes 600hp to the tires, and consistent traction on a hard launch with a stick car is pretty tough. My 60' times are absolute trash, but once I get it to hook, it pulls like freight train. This might be a simpler solution than trying to figure out a wheel sensor. Thank you!

I was following your build. Its the Blueprint 347 long block w/ a Vortech right? You'll definitely want the TC. You're putting down quite a bit more than me. I did 530hp to the wheels. Getting out of the hole even with a pretty decent suspension set up and drag radials it just blew the tires off. Didn't really even feel like a fast car becasue of that lol. The TC made a huge difference here.

Dialing it in takes some time. Becasue it senses RPM acceleration as vehicle acceleration if you blow past it too fast, like a clutch drop against the two step, the tach will just rip up to 6k and stay pretty steady until the vehicle speed starts to catch up, much like not having TC at all. It does this becasue even though the tires are getting blown off the RPM isn't actually rising very quickly anymore. So it acts much like no TC at all. It took a bit to get that part tuned. I had to use enough ignition retard very quickly so I didnt "blow past it". Its a bit of a balancing act. As long as I set the ignition retard deep enough quick enough to catch it from tire annihilation in the first place its perfect for the rest of the pull.

I was also getting tires breaking loose when boost would start to really bump up. Probably the 5-6psi and up range. Right when the freight train started the tires would erupt. The TC solved that very simply. I don't feel any intervention there at all.

From a rolling start it's perfect. Pure madness. Don't feel any intervention and if someone else drove the car they'd never guess it had TC. Two black stripes, very little smoke, and its gone.

It actaully feels like a legit street weapon now. Goes like hell and full boost is slightly terrifying lol.

I'm still working on it though. Mine also has launch assist which solves the "blowing past it" problem. But getting the two systems to play nice is taking a little time (and tires). I've currently switched off the launch assist and just working on the TC. Very happy with this approach so far.

 

[Sparky714]

I was following your build. Its the Blueprint 347 long block w/ a Vortech right? You'll definitely want the TC. You're putting down quite a bit more than me. I did 530hp to the wheels. Getting out of the hole even with a pretty decent suspension set up and drag radials it just blew the tires off. Didn't really even feel like a fast car becasue of that lol. The TC made a huge difference here.

Dialing it in takes some time. Becasue it senses RPM acceleration as vehicle acceleration if you blow past it too fast, like a clutch drop against the two step, the tach will just rip up to 6k and stay pretty steady until the vehicle speed starts to catch up, much like not having TC at all. It does this becasue even though the tires are getting blown off the RPM isn't actually rising very quickly anymore. So it acts much like no TC at all. It took a bit to get that part tuned. I had to use enough ignition retard very quickly so I didnt "blow past it". Its a bit of a balancing act. As long as I set the ignition retard deep enough quick enough to catch it from tire annihilation in the first place its perfect for the rest of the pull.

I was also getting tires breaking loose when boost would start to really bump up. Probably the 5-6psi and up range. Right when the freight train started the tires would erupt. The TC solved that very simply. I don't feel any intervention there at all.

From a rolling start it's perfect. Pure madness. Don't feel any intervention and if someone else drove the car they'd never guess it had TC. Two black stripes, very little smoke, and its gone.

It actaully feels like a legit street weapon now. Goes like hell and full boost is slightly terrifying lol.

I'm still working on it though. Mine also has launch assist which solves the "blowing past it" problem. But getting the two systems to play nice is taking a little time (and tires). I've currently switched off the launch assist and just working on the TC. Very happy with this approach so far.

Yes, that's my build. It runs amazing. But any hard first gear launch just blows the tires off. I had it to the track once this fall, and it was slower than the previous setup, just because I couldn't get it to hook at all. Pedal it in first, finally get some traction, shift to second mash the throttle, and more tire spin. And that was with a 28" slick. This was a flashlight Friday event with no track prep, but nothing I tried seemed to help. I know I don't have the perfect suspension setup, but at least with the old setup, I could get it to hook and it would just pull and go. So I'm looking forward to playing around with this next year. I appreciate your input.

 

[General karthief]

Gaud, I'm just a dinosaur

 

[AeroCoupe]

Just me but I do t think traction control has anything to do with the exciter rings off the front wheels unless you have an all wheel drive. You need the rear wheels to have exciter rings or the differential to have one.

Sounds like Nicholas has a good solution though. I am going to use the exciter rings on the rear axles as I transplanted ABS into the Coupe but that’s waaaaaay down the road.