tuner and timing

[ooraceredgt]

i have a diablo predator and i have it maxxed out on advance timing to try and make use of the methanol/water inj. does diablo make a program for the predator to allow more timing? is there any other programmer on the market that will give more timing then the predator or should i try a different approach instead of a programmer. the programmer is really handy to have but if i cant go any higher why bother with it. any suggestions would really be a big help. thanks in advance

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Are you getting any detonation?

 

[ooraceredgt]

none even on the dyno it didnt show any

 

[propellerhead]

I never tried it but the rumor is that you can export your Performance Tune to your PC. Leave it with the timing max'ed when you do this. Then do a RESET ALL PARAMETERS. Then import the tune back in. It will appear as a custom tune. Then you can modify that and advance the timing again.

 

[ooraceredgt]

if that true that would be great.

 

[jstreet0204]

Where do you have your ait sensor located? If you can locate it after the charge is cooled you will be able to make the most out of your timing. Otherwise the EEC is still going to see the pre cooled temps and pull timing.

 

[blackfang]

Well the thing with the Predator is they have global timing unlike the SCT products so it is kind of hard to get the timing right. That is one of the reasons why I never got it, but went with SCT. The predators tend to have too richness and when you lean it out it affects load and non adaptive. Plus I rather add 3* of timing only when I need it vice throughout my band.

However I do think you can have a custom tune done and sent to the predator.

 

[propellerhead]

Well the thing with the Predator is they have global timing unlike the SCT products so it is kind of hard to get the timing right. That is one of the reasons why I never got it, but went with SCT. The predators tend to have too richness and when you lean it out it affects load and non adaptive. Plus I rather add 3* of timing only when I need it vice throughout my band.

However I do think you can have a custom tune done and sent to the predator.

Where did you get that information about Predators having global timing?

The Predator adds timing proportionally. It adds a percentage of what the stock timing would be.

 

[DogVomit]

none even on the dyno it didnt show any

The dyno is not a good place to determine detonation. The road is much better.
I might think a dyno tune can give you the most timing, but after the road test, it may need to come back a little.

 

[ooraceredgt]

i havent got any detonation on the road either. i just need someway to get the timing up a little more or that methanol/water inj kit is worthless

 

[jstreet0204]

i havent got any detonation on the road either. i just need someway to get the timing up a little more or that methanol/water inj kit is worthless

http://forums.stangnet.com/showpost.php?p=5706327&postcount=6

 

[blackfang]

Where did you get that information about Predators having global timing?

The Predator adds timing proportionally. It adds a percentage of what the stock timing would be.

ED Clark and my local tuner who used to be a diablo rep and now an SCT rep. Both said the same thing. Yes a percentage which is global.

Yes, say lets add 2% of stock timing across the board, but does the engine really need it across the board? No.That is global timing. SCT sioftware will recreate the timing table to allow you to add or pull it where the engine will need it unlike the Predators(unless you pay to have a custom tune added into the Predator but that costs even more $$) I am talking adding and pulling at different rpm ranges, i.e like add 2*@ 4500 rpms and pulls 3* @ 6500.

 

[blackfang]

Come to think of it Ed Clark and Ken B even told you the same thing on Modular Depot in this thread right here

http://forums.modulardepot.com/show...6&perpage=20&highlight=b1ackfang&pagenumber=2

 

[propellerhead]

Maybe we are not clear on what global timing means. Go figure out what it means and let me know.

The Predator will let you add or subtract a percentage of timing (not a fixed number of degrees) to the timing in the 2000-4000 RPM range and the 4000-7000 RPM range. Whether that's global timing or not,

 

[blackfang]

Like you have been told by Ed Clark (works alot with Steen Racing) and Ken B with Modular Depot, who both are well known and respected tuners who have a big reputation for tuning alot of cars with great results.

Why add a certain percentage of timing over a broad range, when the car might only need it in certain areas and you can add how much you want. The predator doesnt give you that ability. The SCT products re create the timing tables.

BTW thats 2k-7k and thats global timing.
How much more can I go into this?

 

[jstreet0204]

Maybe we are not clear on what global timing means. Go figure out what it means and let me know.

The Predator will let you add or subtract a percentage of timing (not a fixed number of degrees) to the timing in the 2000-4000 RPM range and the 4000-7000 RPM range. Whether that's global timing or not,

If it will adjust in ranges, then it not what most people refer to as global timing. Global timing usually refers to the "Global spark multiplier" By default it is set to one. Change it to 1.1 and it will globaly advance spark by 10% across all rpm ranges and load levels. 0.9 would retard spark by 10%. If the predator adds in ranges like that, it is either manipulating the spark tables, or maybe the spark_adv_rate function.

 

[propellerhead]

If it will adjust in ranges, then it not what most people refer to as global timing. Global timing usually refers to the "Global spark multiplier" By default it is set to one. Change it to 1.1 and it will globaly advance spark by 10% across all rpm ranges and load levels. 0.9 would retard spark by 10%. If the predator adds in ranges like that, it is either manipulating the spark tables, or maybe the spark_adv_rate function.

That's what I thought 'global timing' meant. Like what mechanical timing adjusters do. You dial in 2* advance and you get an additional 2* at idle, 2* at part throttle, 2* at heavy throttle, 2* at WOT, and so on. You get an additonal 2* no matter what the IAT, LOAD, RPM say.

With my Predator, I can add 10% in two seperate ranges. 2000-4000 and 4000-7000. Not 2000-7000. I know this for a fact. I have a Predator in the trunk of my car right now. This is not just based on what <insert big name here> said. Adding 10% means where the EEC normally adds 5* of timing, I'll now get 5.5; and where it would normally add 10* of timing advance, I would now get 11*; and where it would normally add 20* of timing advance, I would now get 22*; and where it would normally add 30* of timing advance, I would now get 33*. And yes, it rewrites the timing tables.

 

[ooraceredgt]

http://forums.stangnet.com/showpost.php?p=5706327&postcount=6

not positive where

 

[jstreet0204]

not positive where

Your stock location was in the inlet tube just after the MAF. It is a small black sensor that slides into a rubber grommet. The reason I ask, is the EEC will adjust timing any many variables. One of which is intake temp read by the IAT sensor. If you are cooling the air charger after that sensor, then the EEC does not know it has cooled off and will pull timing. My set up is quite a bit different than yours, but the principle is the same. My IAT sensor has been relocated in the lower intake just under the intercooler. Air charge temp also drives many other functions such as fuel pressure, and a/f ratio, so it is best to make sure you are reading the temps after it is cooled.

 

[ooraceredgt]

Your stock location was in the inlet tube just after the MAF. It is a small black sensor that slides into a rubber grommet. The reason I ask, is the EEC will adjust timing any many variables. One of which is intake temp read by the IAT sensor. If you are cooling the air charger after that sensor, then the EEC does not know it has cooled off and will pull timing. My set up is quite a bit different than yours, but the principle is the same. My IAT sensor has been relocated in the lower intake just under the intercooler. Air charge temp also drives many other functions such as fuel pressure, and a/f ratio, so it is best to make sure you are reading the temps after it is cooled.

yea mine is located after the maf.