Tuning question.

[5.0_GT_kid]

Ok guys here we go with the newb question...

I know the tweecer/tuner chips and so forth are very popular mods these days, but my question is why do we need them when we can adjust fuel and spark manually?

I know there is a reason, and computers are one things I don't know as far cars go right now, so just looking for some general info on when/why in the modding process we would need to have our cars dyno tuned or a chip installed. Figure this will not only help me but maybe others as well who are just starting to get into this hobby.

Thanks in advance for not flaming me for the newb question either

 

[HISSIN50]

Ill take a little stab at this (I dont have nearly the tuning knowledge of many in here). We can set base timing, but the puter takes care of all the advance, etc. these computers seem to leave a little to be desired with the spark and fuel curves/tables.

And since the EEC is adaptive, if you change something like fuel pressure, the puter will adapt the injector pulsewidth to get back to stoich. so actually modifying the actual programming with a tuner/chip, etc can really help with a lot of these issues (I would really like to simply get a decent spark and fuel curves and get the fan on earlier for a 180 thermostat).

The guys (Grady, John, et al) who have B.A.'s in TwEECer will have a ton more info.

 

[final5-0]

Ill take a little stab at this (I dont have nearly the tuning knowledge of many in here). We can set base timing, but the puter takes care of all the advance, etc. these computers seem to leave a little to be desired with the spark and fuel curves/tables.

And since the EEC is adaptive, if you change something like fuel pressure, the puter will adapt the injector pulsewidth to get back to stoich. so actually modifying the actual programming with a tuner/chip, etc can really help with a lot of these issues (I would really like to simply get a decent spark and fuel curves and get the fan on earlier for a 180 thermostat).

The guys (Grady, John, et al) who have B.A.'s in TwEECer will have a ton more info.

Eric

That is great info HISSIN50 has shared with us and I'll add a bit to it to give you an idea about just a few of the benefits of a custom tune.

The fuel on our cars is too lean for the best performance (especially on the GT) as delivered by Ford.

The same can be said about the spark not being set up for the best performance and once again, the GT is worse than the Cobra. (btw, this is the very reason you don't hear the Cobra boys crying about the ping thing)

A custom tune lets you do things that you could not do otherwise like turn on & off the fans exactaly at the temp you desire like HISSIN50 was talking about.

You can also use a custom tune to..........................

kill the spark retard when shifting at wot

get your total spark in quicker

and one of the most important and often over looked benefits of custom tuning is drivability issues can be improved upon greatly or totally banished from your car.

Think about it along these lines using a stock Stang or one with a few mods.

Using the dizzy to advance the spark and an afpr to change the pressure will make our example Stang perform better and......that is a fact we all know.

Using a custom tune to do things that can't be done by mechanical means will now make that same example Stang perform better beyond mechanical tuning in two areas......1 wot power & 2 drivability

Hope that gives you some kind of perspective on this stuff.

Later
Grady

 

[5.0_GT_kid]

Wow guys great info, thanks for your help

 

[5.0_GT_kid]

Ok another question...

I am now seriously thinking about taking my car to get it dyno tuned. Even though it only has a few mods, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have it done now and depending on the shop, they may supply cheap/free re-burns.

FordSpeed.com is the shop I'm thinking about using. They use SCT chips and have a rep for doing great work.

Right now the only mods on the car is Off-Road H-pipe with 40 series and turndowns, a brand new T-5 and UD pullies going on soon. I will probably buy a new ignition system too before sending my car to the dyno.

What do you guys think?

 

[HISSIN50]

time for my two cents again. Unless something changed drastically, the stock ignition (on a fox - not sure on an SN, but i dont see a big change between them) is good for ~400 HP N/A.

I dont have the datalogging knowledge that Grady does, but I think a chip is a good idea. my car is fairly stock and above (in post 2) i listed why i would want to tune it (fuel and timing curves/tables and fan temps - that is really all i would want that I *know* of).

as for what method to take, that is up to you (if you envision future mods, a handheld might be wiser). but if this is basically gonna be it mod-wise, a chip sounds good to me (or maybe they have a hook up on reburns?).

let's wait for Grady's input.

 

[5.0_GT_kid]

Thanks again HISSIN.

I'm a long ways from being done, as I want to build a 306 with AFR heads, Trick Flow intake and a custom cam.

Dunno about the ignition, but it'd be nice to upgrade anyways, and the whole kit is like $250 from Performance Distributors.

Also my ideal situation would be for this shop to tune it and then do free or very cheap reburns, because I know alot of places do that.

 

[final5-0]

OK Eric

I thought I'd say this stuff cause even though I've said it before I kinda think some of it got lost in the StangNet snaffoo-boo hoo. Its kinda how I see tuning our Stangs from my current view point and how I saw it when I started to do the research for how I was gonna get my Stang tuned about four years ago.

My knowledge of tuning 5.0's is really limited cause all I've been able to pick up is about my car and only my car.

Another thing about that which is kinda, not so good is the only tuner interface I have knowledge with is the Tweecer.

While I may have some experience it is very much a niche kinda thing. I wanna point out these things cause there is so much about tuning Stangs I'm not even aware about.

I don't mind sharing with you my general thoughts about your Q's but it is just my two cents worth as they say, lol.

It seems to me that what ever method is used to tune your car the results will be only as good as the guy that is behind that tune. I'd wanna have my car tuned by someone who has many cars just like mine running around town that really do rip AND drive like a stocker (except for cam lope).

I've heard nothing but good things about the SCT method of tuning.

IMHO, From the perspective of money spent and spending it wisely on tuning our cars I see it like this................

When your car is stock or with just a mod or two the smart thing to do is think ahead and plan what you want from your car so you don't buy parts that won't allow you to achieve those goals.

Tuning is no different from that example.

You really only got two options
1 tune by you
2 tune by Pro

You just gotta have your objectives and find the best way to tune your car for the buck spent, lol.

As for me, I'm such a control freak and too particular to allow anybody but me to touch my baby, and as for the tune...... I'm certainaly not about to relinquish control of that!!!

I knew the self tune route would give me that control and I'd have to make an investment in.............................................
time spent learning the basic operation of our pcm
time spent in researching various tuning methods

After a little research I knew I needed three main things to tune my car.
1 a tuning interface that allows total access to the pcm
2 a datalogging interface for baseline info and verification of tuning changes
3 a wide band for accurate info of wot fuel ratio

I just started pushing buttons and reading old threads on the tuning sites and here I am today ..........................where ever that is

Later
Grady

 

[5.0_GT_kid]

Wow, thanks for more info buddy. I do appreciate the help and it's cuz of people like you I love Stangnet

How good are you with a Tweecer? I assume you know your way around pretty well and I haven't ruled out the Tweecer yet.

So now I ask...
1) how hard was it to learn tweecer
2) are there any pros/cons with using tweecer over SCT?

 

[final5-0]

Wow, thanks for more info buddy. I do appreciate the help and it's cuz of people like you I love Stangnet

Glad I could help and lots of other peeps on this site tune their cars besides me but they must be closet tuners, lol. I think they are gonna come out very soon. I do try to help if I can cause so many in the past have done the same for me.

How good are you with a Tweecer? I assume you know your way around pretty well and I haven't ruled out the Tweecer yet.

I could not say how good I am with the Tweecer but my car does idle real good and it will squeak the tires a good bit. The sig shows a pull that I tuned around on a bit if you wish to take a look.

So now I ask...
1) how hard was it to learn tweecer
2) are there any pros/cons with using tweecer over SCT?

1) I lurked around on the tuning sites a good bit just learning basic stuff but you can make simple changes like killing the tip in retard with just a little bit of research on your part.

2) Well, lol, the SCT thing if I understand it correctly......is that they do the tuning and with the Tweecer you have to know what to do in the first place before you do the tuning. But then again, with the Tweecer, you have all the options of......control of your tune, make as many changes as needed for the same price, have the ability to datalog.

Later
Grady

 

[bayellowstang]

I tune my car with a twEEcer. I have no idea as to what I am doing, I just try it. I have never been to the dyno but with the 1/8 mile times I figure its not running to bad, if I could get traction.

I like the ability to be able to control all my own settings. Not having someone tell me thats the best way to do it. Its also nice to be able to change fan settings in the winter.

My car would not run when I put the new combo together. I had a superchip and it ran worse then the stock computer. Once I installed the tweecer and put the 95 cobra r tune in it, it runs and idles way better.

So basicly if you are semi computer/car literit (and paraniod of other people messing with your baby) then i would get the tuner of your choice.