Useable Street RWHP

stirling33 · Nov 18, 2005

There has been alot of talk lately about achieving high HP #'s(400&500rwhp),
my question to all the people who have higher HP engines: is where do you think the threshold is for a great street engine?

Is it 300rwhp, is it 350,400 - and I am talking 90% street use, I am curious to hear some opinions I am thinking engine upgrade over the winter.

tylerrocks · Nov 18, 2005

I personally do not know the answer to your question, but I think you are going to have to give more info on how the car's suspension, wheels, and any other area that gets power to the ground is setup to get an accurate number.
Sorry I couldn't give a number

Tyler

stirling33 · Nov 18, 2005

tylerrocks said:
I personally do not know the answer to your question, but I think you are going to have to give more info on how the car's suspension, wheels, and any other area that gets power to the ground is setup to get an accurate number.
Sorry I couldn't give a number

Tyler

The suspension is not stock and is upgraded but by no means is high end aftermarket, the car does have sub frame connectors and traction bars, so I would say it is set up as any typical weekend or cruise type car.

As far as the tires go I currently have 235's on 15x7 Mag 500's, but according to Dodgestang you can fit 255's back there.

180 Out · Nov 18, 2005

In the December 2005 Car & Driver, there's a comparo of the Viper Coupe vs. the Corvette Z06, and another of the Pontiac Solstice vs. the Mazda Miata. Vital stats:

Viper: 510 hp @ 5600, 535 lb-ft @ 4200, 3470 lbs, 12.1 @ 120
Vette: 505 hp @ 6300, 470 lb-ft @ 4800, 3147 lbs, 11.8 @ 125
Miata: 170 hp @ 6700, 140 lb-ft @ 5000, 2425 lbs, 15.2 @ 91
Pont.: 177 hp @ 6600, 166 lb-ft @ 4800, 2877 lbs, 15.4 @ 89

All four were tested by the same crew on the same day at the same track and on the same Ohio hill country backroads loop. Guess which one scored highest fun-to-drive on the public road loop? Guess which one was slowest on the track? (Hint: they were both the same car.)

Max Power · Nov 18, 2005

I dunno, I buit what could be considered a fairly mild torque build of a 393 last year. I would guess 325-350 to the wheels. In first gear at 20mph, I mash the pedal and go up in smoke. I don't really see a need for more power in a street car.

Jester67 · Nov 18, 2005

My original plans for my car was to build a fire breathing corvette killer. But I have rethought that plan. I am going to go with a milder much more street able car that will be fun to drive. Mega horsepower is only really good for dragging and I’m not into that. This has come form seeing people chase 60’ times etc and making there car something that they can no longer enjoy on the street. My current goal is 300rwhp no more. Besides for me it is better to look good than to go real fast. If I wonted to go that fast I would get a ricer where power is cheaper, the cars are cheap and if you kill it you have not removed a classic from the world. Just my .02 cents it your car do what makes YOU happy.:SNSign:

steel1212 · Nov 18, 2005

I agree with the above. I think 300rwhp is the best streetable horsepower. Hell thats still a mid 12 second car at the strip which is very respectable.

stirling33 · Nov 18, 2005

Great info and opinions guys keep em comin'......so and far as fwhp goes somewhere around the 400 or 425 range with a manual trans should hopefully get you around the desirable 300 rwhp.

steemin · Nov 18, 2005

streetable RWHP

In the original post in this thread Stirling33 asks what is the threshold for a good street engine that 90% of its time will be spent on the street.
Before I offer up my opinion I would like to state that IMHO in order to truly
enjoy a car that is driven on the street the car must be set up properly.
In other words power alone does not make a "fun" street machine.
To me this means great brakes (preferably 4wd),updated suspension or at the very least rebuilt with new components,upgraded high end radial tires,
rebuilt or upgraded steering components,chassis reinforcement (subframe connectors,Monte Carlo bar and shock tower bracing and don't forget a quality transmission with proper gearing.
I have purposely left out creature comforts as these do not directly affect the performance aspect of driving pleasure.
Now that your car is set up to handle the added power we can begin to discuss RWHP #'s. I believe that 300-400 RWHP is a good range for usuable power in a street machine.
In a 3000lb +/- car 300 RWHP is going to provide enough power to make driving on the street exciting. Rarely would you be embarrassed by other vehicles on the street.
At the high end of the range 400 RWHP is more than enough to get into lots of trouble and to put to shame most other cars on the road.
As someone mentioned in an earlier post if you have not driven a car with 300 RWHP (or 400 RWHP)you may be over estimating your needs.
Obviously everyones wants and needs differ. But I would suggest that you focus on building a complete package as oppossed to chasing a big high horsepower number.
Scott

steemin · Nov 18, 2005

streetable RWHP

In the original post in this thread Stirling33 asks what is the threshold for a good street engine that 90% of its time will be spent on the street.
Before I offer up my opinion I would like to state that IMHO in order to truly
enjoy a car that is driven on the street the car must be set up properly.
In other words power alone does not make a "fun" street machine.
To me this means great brakes (preferably 4wd),updated suspension or at the very least rebuilt with new components,upgraded high end radial tires,
rebuilt or upgraded steering components,chassis reinforcement (subframe connectors,Monte Carlo bar and shock tower bracing and don't forget a quality transmission with proper gearing.
I have purposely left out creature comforts as these do not directly affect the performance aspect of driving pleasure.
Now that your car is set up to handle the added power we can begin to discuss RWHP #'s. I believe that 300-400 RWHP is a good range for usuable power in a street machine.
In a 3000lb +/_ car 300 RWHP is going to provide enough power to make driving on the street exciting. Rarely would you be embarrassed by other vehicles on the street.
At the high end of the range 400 RWHP is more than enough to get into lots of trouble and to put to shame most other cars on the road.
As someone mentioned in an earlier post if you have not driven a car with 300 RWHP (or 400 RWHP)you may be over estimating your needs.
Obviously everyones wants and needs differ. But I would suggest that you focus on building a complete package as oppossed to chasing a big high horsepower number.
Scott

KiwiGT · Nov 18, 2005

steemin said:
In the original post in this thread Stirling33 asks what is the threshold for a good street engine that 90% of its time will be spent on the street.
Before I offer up my opinion I would like to state that IMHO in order to truly
enjoy a car that is driven on the street the car must be set up properly.
In other words power alone does not make a "fun" street machine.
To me this means great brakes (preferably 4wd),updated suspension or at the very least rebuilt with new components,upgraded high end radial tires,
rebuilt or upgraded steering components,chassis reinforcement (subframe connectors,Monte Carlo bar and shock tower bracing and don't forget a quality transmission with proper gearing.
I have purposely left out creature comforts as these do not directly affect the performance aspect of driving pleasure.
Now that your car is set up to handle the added power we can begin to discuss RWHP #'s. I believe that 300-400 RWHP is a good range for usuable power in a street machine.

At the high end of the range 400 RWHP is more than enough to get into lots of trouble and to put to shame most other cars on the road.
As someone mentioned in an earlier post if you have not driven a car with 300 RWHP (or 400 RWHP)you may be over estimating your needs.
Obviously everyones wants and needs differ. But I would suggest that you focus on building a complete package as oppossed to chasing a big high horsepower number.
Scott

Scott, I see from your signature you have the FRPP 347 crate engine. I am considering purchasing the same engine for my '66. Would you recommend this as a good crate engine to purchase, are you happy with it ?

Hissing Cobra · Nov 18, 2005

I agree with the 300 rear wheel horsepower level for regular street driving. I've seen many cars with 400 horsepower running high 11's and low 12's. I'm almost there with my small 306 (307 rear wheel horsepower.) I've run a best of 12.42 @ 109 and have gone as fast as 110. It runs on 93 octane just fine. I also installed a 5 speed. Because of the overdrive, I drive 2+ hours to the track each way when racing. I also drive 2 hours each way to the car shows in Connecticut. Let me tell you, 300 rwhp is fun! I can "toast" many cars (of course the new corvettes are going to be tough!)

My buddy has a '93 Cobra that makes 400 rear wheel horsepower and he has trouble keeping it tuned with the supercharger. When it is running right, he'll light the tires up at 45-50 miles an hour. Fun, but not safe.

It's all in what YOU want to do.........

Bullitt · Nov 18, 2005

i've got 325 to the wheels and i have to run on DRs (nitto 245/50/16s) on the street if i don't want to spin the tires anytime i lay into the throttle. i guess 4.11s and the low TKO first gear help make that problem too though...

iskwezm · Nov 18, 2005

My last "little" 289 put down 305 at the wheels and i had 125 shot that was used occasionaly and it was fun,could keep up with whatever got next to me at a light,but was no where near scary.My new combo,I dont know what it puts down,but i would guess(or really hope) its about 435+ RWHP,with 275 radials on the street,they dont have a chance,but plans call for 26X11.50X17 M/T for street tire replacement.I have a roll bar,shelby suspension,stock disc brakes,i wouldnt trust this car doing 125+ on the freeway,but its safe enough,decent gas mileage,sounds wicked, and street driveable.

jbsteven · Nov 18, 2005

personally I am in the "as much as possible" club. On pure motor at speeds above 30-40mph you can have 500rwhp and not break the tires loose so why not have more?

steel1212 · Nov 18, 2005

If you have 500rwhp and you stomp it at 30-40 miles an hour your going to break the tires loose.

steemin · Nov 18, 2005

Kiwi

The car in my signature is not on the road yet.
Still a couple of minor details left to finish.
Should be completed in the next few weeks.
This is the same motor that is being used in the Teralingua (SP?) Mustangs
that Dallas Mustang's are building. From what I have gathered everyone seems to be pleased with the FRPP 347/450hp crate engine.
I spoke with a gentlemen that owns a shop that does quite a bit of warranty work for FRPP. He states that his shop has not seen any issues regarding this particular engine. He also indicatd that he has dynoed several of these engines and they are right on the money in regards to producing the advertised 450FWHP. I will post my personal experiences as soon as I get the chance.
My comments in my previous post were based on my experiences with cars I have previously owned.
Scott

10secgoal · Nov 19, 2005

As long as it's reliable, and runs on pump gas. That's is all there is to a street car for me, more or less. A car that goes any other direction than intended when the pedal down, does not make it unstreetable. Your cheap ass just needs to buy good tires, lol. If you can't control your car, that doesn't make it unstreetable. Mine is perfectly streetable, but I wouldn't let my wife drive it. I think she wouldn't be able to figure out how to put it back in park, of just kill herself. I want mine to last at 500 rwhp for a little while. If all you do is drive around and have fun, that's cool. Maybe 350 hp is enough. But I want the big stick I can carry on the street so when I go the track, I can crack some skulls, and drive it home while they load they're car on a trailor.

Edbert · Nov 19, 2005

I think we need to try and avoid using terms like "streetable" in these discussions. That term is too heavilly dependant on what ammounts to no more than one persons' opinion. I mean, there are factory street cars with ~500hp, nobody can say they are not 'streetable'. Also, I don't care if you can get 750rwhp there's always gonna be that guy next to you at the light that will beat you. But for the sake of this thread I'll agree with the 300-350rwhp in a ~3,000 pound vehicle as beeing a good basis for a generally fun-to-drive street car.

I am also glad to see posts like steemin's, setting up the brakes/chassis/suspension is every bit as important, arguable MORE, than setting up the drivetrain. I always said that if you want to have the go you'd better have the whoah. 300rwhp is enough to get any driver into serious trouble on the street, it is only made worse if those other components are not properly configured. I said any driver can get into trouble with 300rwhp because the street is a gangerous place to drive fast. Other drivers being the biggest threat of course. So even the 150rwhp Honduh can get you into trouble. If you don't have a lot of seat time in a 300rwhp car then do NOT build your street rod to have 400, you are simply pushing your skill set too far too fast IMHO.

My suggestion is this; build you motor with a solid bottom end, build it to take high power and high RPM, then put an induction it it that will hold it back until you get some experience, then you can (relatively) cheaply and easily replace the heads/cam/intake with something more agressive and keep the short block.

Useable Street RWHP

stirling33

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180 Out

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Max Power

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