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  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
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Very dissapointed in my new combo

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nibblesworth
  • Start date Start date Nov 26, 2006
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Nibblesworth

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Sep 17, 2006
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#1
  • Nov 26, 2006
  • #1
Well, I just finished with my 93's head/intake swap. Aside from a custom catted 2 1/2 h-pipe/flows and 4.10s, the car was bone stock. Still had stock timing.

Today, I finished installing GT40X heads (64cc), TFS Street Heat intake, and 1.72 RRs.

The car started up beautifully--took about 5 cranks for the fuel to re-fill the lines, and then *boom* it fires right up. I was impressed with the new sound; it was deeper, throatier, and just ballsier. I let the engine idle for about 5 minutes, until it hit operating temp, then I shut it off and changed the oil.

Took her out for a spin, and she felt exactly like she felt before the swap. In other words: SLOW. It's a 93 GT Vert auto, so it's the biggiest of the bunch. One problem I know of is that we haven't timed it yet, because my buddy forgot his timing light. So, the timing could have been WAAAAY off. We did hand-time the motor twice, each time with a noticable change in power. We figure that we may be close to stock timing, but he's coming later this week with his gun so check it out for sure.

However, if it isn't the timing, I'm screwed because I've spent abuot $2500 on the car, and it feels nothing like my 93 5-sp with stock heads drove. I'm really worried that aod verts just suck without major power adders. I'm even more worried that I just shat out $2500 for nothing.

Are vert aods really this slow, or is my timing just out of wack?
 
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GTOreturns

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2003
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West Coast Best Coast
Nov 26, 2006
#2
  • Nov 26, 2006
  • #2
Personally I would have gone with a Cobra or GT40 intake. But now what you wanna do is get a high speed stall converter and gears. Theres only 2 good choices for converters IMO.Edge and Precision Ind. Precision Ind is the best IMO.But edge make a real good one too. I put a 2800 stall in as my first mod (93 LX AOD) WOW!!! I went from not even being able to power brake the car too smoking the tires off the line by just punching it out! That with 373 gears,Trans go shift kit and you will have a "TOTALLY" different car on your hands,especially with those heads and intake. My heads and intake were stock at the time and WOW!! What a difference it made! If you get a converter a tranny cooler is a must,but there real cheap!
 
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Nibblesworth

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#3
  • Nov 26, 2006
  • #3
GTOReturns said:
Personally I would have gone with a Cobra or GT40 intake.
Click to expand...

I would have as well, and I probably would have gone with different heads, too. The reason I didn't is that I was working on a very limited budget, and I found the heads, intake, and RR's for $1000 used (with 2500 miles).

I need to look into the stall convertor--but it sounds like the right thing to do.
 
G

GTOreturns

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2003
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Nov 26, 2006
#4
  • Nov 26, 2006
  • #4
Im dead serious when I say it turns it into a "totally" different car!
 

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!
Founding Member
May 17, 2000
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Nov 26, 2006
#5
  • Nov 26, 2006
  • #5
I'm running my stock AOD and did the H/C/I listed in my signature over the summer. The difference was night and day. Something must not be right with your install or tuning. You should be seeing a MAJOR difference in performance.
 
G

GTOreturns

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2003
51
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West Coast Best Coast
Nov 26, 2006
#6
  • Nov 26, 2006
  • #6
What MAF and TB are you using?
 

TheBocSez

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Feb 3, 2004
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Nov 26, 2006
#7
  • Nov 26, 2006
  • #7
A converter will definately make it act like a different car. I went with an Edge 3200 and its great!!

Looking at the the parts you added, the only thing I can think of would the 64cc combustion chamber. Not sure what the CC of a stock E7 is, but with a stock piston and the 64cc, maybe the compression dropped a little? Not sure on that one, just thowing it out there.

Hows it run over all, other than "slow"? does it pull good, have any flat spots ect...
 
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Nibblesworth

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#8
  • Nov 26, 2006
  • #8
TheBocSez said:
A converter will definately make it act like a different car. I went with an Edge 3200 and its great!!

Looking at the the parts you added, the only thing I can think of would the 64cc combustion chamber. Not sure what the CC of a stock E7 is, but with a stock piston and the 64cc, maybe the compression dropped a little? Not sure on that one, just thowing it out there.

Hows it run over all, other than "slow"? does it pull good, have any flat spots ect...
Click to expand...

The car runs very well, considering I'm not jazzed with the performance. It took about 5 minutes of idling for a shakey idle to go away, and after that it ran very smoothly. The only real flat spot is between 1500 and 3500 rpms. After 3500, it comes alive, but nothing spectacular. My buddy, who's a certified Ford tech of 8 years, did the work. He's a bit stumped too, but figures things'll get better with timing.

I'm running the stock TB, stock MAF, and stock headers, primarily because my only purpose for the car is as a mild DD. The rpm's I'll be driving at get the air they need with stock TBs and MAFs. I do, however, plan to swap them out in the next 6 months or so.

If I had to guess, I'd say I'm pushing about 210rwhp. Torque seems non-existant below 3000rpm.

Dunno. Hope it gets better.
 

302RollinHard

New Member
Sep 26, 2005
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Columbus, OH
Nov 27, 2006
#9
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #9
CAM. Good heads, good intake, stock cam (at least it doesn't seem like you changed the cam) that won't make the most of it. Converter is a good idea, but I don't think that getting a cam that will let the other parts shine would be a bad one either.
 

DMAN302

My mom says thanks for the pearl necklace.
Nov 8, 2003
2,120
2
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windsor, Canada
Nov 27, 2006
#10
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #10
Well you've added some power with the heads and intake...but you've inhibited a portion of the gains by retaining the stock MAF and headers. My guess is you're not going to find a ton of HP with timing, in order to optimize the combo you're going to need to get more air flow...both in and out.
 

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet
SN Certified Technician
Sep 5, 2001
6,089
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Vass, NC
Nov 27, 2006
#11
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #11
agreed, the stock MAF is too small even for stock heads/cam/intake cars... If you don't know what your timing is, then you're wasting time worrying about the choice... My timing at 10* and fuel pressure at 40psi starved my H/C/I of fuel and was waaaay to little initial timing - I made 258 rwhp. I adjusted the timing to what I found worked best at the track - 18* @ 55psi of fuel pressure - and suddenly made 311 rwhp. I had injectors that were too small, so you probably won't see those kind of gains, but timing can definitely wake a car up.

I'm curious, if the heads/cam/and RRs only cost you $1k, what did you spend the other fifteen hundred on?
 
G

GTOreturns

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Oct 1, 2003
51
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Nov 27, 2006
#12
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #12
DMAN302 said:
Well you've added some power with the heads and intake...but you've inhibited a portion of the gains by retaining the stock MAF and headers. My guess is you're not going to find a ton of HP with timing, in order to optimize the combo you're going to need to get more air flow...both in and out.
Click to expand...
The stock headers are the best headers for a 5.0 till you reach 260+HP then you change them.If you change them now you will have even LESS low end then you have now. Its the intake that is killing you.The stock,Cobra,and GT40 are great for low end torque which youve seemed to lost.The stock one is one of the best for low end but falls on its face at 4000rpm.A Cobra will do you justice and there pretty cheap rite out of the box.They have the same low end torque as the stock but keep pulling after 5000rpm. As far as TB's? Get a 65MM. MAF you can go 75mm. But Ive had idle issues with the 75mm Pro-M. The 80mm Seems to work perfect and its not too big and theres no idle issues. Im not a big fan of C&L Maf's!
 
B

Boss 351

Here sthhhhhhhheeeve take a picthh of my man flowe
Jul 13, 2003
2,433
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Canada
Nov 27, 2006
#13
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #13
I changed my headers and didn't loose power and I don't have 260hp I agree too much intake won't help, the stock E7's are 63cc... I'd get some pistons with a small dome to get the CR up in the 9.5~10.5 range for more power...
 
G

GTOreturns

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Oct 1, 2003
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Nov 27, 2006
#14
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #14
Boss 351 said:
I changed my headers and didn't loose power and I don't have 260hp I agree too much intake won't help, the stock E7's are 63cc... I'd get some pistons with a small dome to get the CR up in the 9.5~10.5 range for more power...
Click to expand...
You mite have even gained a little up top. But you lose low end torque. I know I did.
 

Dachipsta

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Oct 1, 2006
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Nov 27, 2006
#15
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #15
Sorry to hear it didnt live up to your expectations. I know thats a lot of money to dump into it and not see any big results like you expected. I am planning a new set of heads soon so I dont like hearing stuff like this...:0.

JMO, but I think you just arent moving enough air to let the heads and intake reach their full potential. Your induction is limited by the smallest componant and that sounds like it would be your TB as it is still stock. Also, running stock headers, the rest of your free-flowing exaust is being choked as well. As far as the stock 19lb injectors, I think they are good up to only about 250-260 hp at stock fuel pressure. If you dont have an adjustable reg. to bump up the pres., then you are prolly will be in a little trouble there too once you get the engine breathing better. Bigger injectors also is gonna require an aftermarket pump at a minimum of 190lph. 24lb inj. with a 190lph pump plus an adj. fuel pres. reg. would prolly do ya good for that setup.
The heads that you got and the intake will work good as long as you have the other hardware in place to support it. Get a bigger TB and Mass Air Meter and get rid of those stock headers and I will bet you'll notice a big difference. You will prolly wind up running a bit lean tho until the fuel componants are addressed.
As far as the stock AOD, that thing is a known power sucker. Definately get it up to snuff as that will make a HUGE difference too. Good luck
 
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Nibblesworth

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#16
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #16
FastDriver said:
I'm curious, if the heads/cam/and RRs only cost you $1k, what did you spend the other fifteen hundred on?
Click to expand...

I've been asking myself that for the past month! haha

Everything I've done so far:

Heads/Intake/RR : $1050
Custom Catted H-Pipe: $300
Gears: $500
Assorted gaskets, bolts, etc: $500

I should have known better than to assume I could keep this in a range where the wife would be happy. I figure I'll spend, at most, another $200 on a used TB and MAF (hopefully a 70mm TB and perhaps a 75mm MAF). I also plan on putting some steel-braided brake lines.

I may spend the next couple of months putting together a 5-spd swap. This is the first AOD musang I've owned, and I'm not too jazzed with it.

Either that, or I'll sell this and search for a nice coupe.
 

stangjunkie

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#17
  • Nov 27, 2006
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does no good to have an engine that can flow alot of air if you can't supply the air to the motor.... new MAF TB etc. also a cam will benefit you in huge ways
 

Roland69

Sergeant Tangnet
Sep 17, 2005
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Nov 27, 2006
#18
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #18
I love having SD.....
 

Flavadave4

Active Member
Nov 28, 2003
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Nov 27, 2006
#19
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #19
I had a simular problem......If you dont know what your timing is you have nothing to even start from though.
Adjust Timing
Fuel Pressure 38-40psi with vac off
Maf a TB should be upgraded to feel the full potential of your combo, but you should feel a differnce with what you have now.

Timing and fuel would be where i would start.
 

stangjunkie

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#20
  • Nov 27, 2006
  • #20
Roland69 said:
I love having SD.....
Click to expand...


wait till you do an HCI
 
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