Street Car! - How much HP is enough?

[final5-0]

I need your thoughts about ... How much HP is needed for a Street Combo!

We all want more ... that is a given ... but ... I'd like some serious input here please.

Here is how this thread came to be.

Went out to eat the other night with high school gear head bud who has been out of the Stang hobby for a good while now. He told me he had an 86 coupe he was gonna play around with.

He wanted to talk about these options for a Street Application:

OEM block with nothing but a bore clean up (306 ci) and just the basics like strong rod bolts, bearings, rings, and the like but no blueprint or balance.

At this point I asked him if he had thoughts of a Forced Induction combo

He said he liked Pro Charger's blower and was considering it

Now ... here is where I will get all of you involved in this by asking you the Question my friend then asked me.

How much HP is enough for a Street Car?

Please understand something here ...
This was asked by a fellow that has a lot of experience in building up many Old School cars but knows things have changed a whole lot these days.

He understands all too well basic facts like:
High HP needs a driveline that will support that amount of abuse
OEM driveline parts no longer are built like old top loader 4 speed & 9" rear ends
Tuning no longer can be done with a little box of dizzy springs and carb jets

About the only thing he was certain about was he wanted no turbo or juice

He has driven my Stang several times and I told him my motor and driveline in his light Coupe (very light ... btw) would have to feel like adding somewhere in the range of 50 to 75 more rwhp to my car IMHO

So ... there you kinda have our topic of discussion for a 306 NA combo option with a focus of ... the best bang for the buck spent.

I then told him that Pro Charger he liked could easily add enough power to split that OEM block 306 combo right down the middle.

At this point we talked about how 400-450 rwhp is just about the limit for the 5.0 block and that is if a good amount of common sense is kept in mind along with a good tune.

He looked at me and said ... You got 300 to the wheels with your 95 and are telling me a blower could take it to mid 400's?

Again ... He asked me the same HP Question ... but this time ... a bit differently

How much is practical for a Street Car?

Well ... Now it is your turn ... Give me some of your thoughts ... If you please
and
For now ... Please keep it to an OEM block or fresh 306 as described above.

I hope to get some insightful input from those of you who are blown at 400rwhp or above.

Grady

 

[DarkProphet]

In my opinion, 400-500 rwhp is plenty for the street. Its enough to be wicked fast and get yourself into trouble as quick as you can mash the pedal, but still alright if the weather takes a turn for the worse, or if you just want to cruise. Im somewhere around 360-370 at the wheels and I would like more, but my friend has an 500+ rwhp 03 cobra that I feel is almost too fast. It gets no traction, and can get out of hand really fast if you let it. You really have to be on top of his car when your on it. The only time you can really use all the car has in 3rd gear and up, and by that time your doing 100 mph.

So yeah, my answer is 400-500 rwhp. In a lighter foxbody setup, 400 at the wheels should be really nice!

 

[mootang]

well i didn't find the answer at 300Rwhp, and i'm about to test the waters with 450-500Rwhp. I'll let you know if the new power level satisfies my need for speed

 

[yellow1995Cobra]

my 03 had 460 rwhp and that wasnt enough... I think around 550rwhp would be about right. But it does depend on the weight of the car as well.

 

[blksn955.o]

I think realisticly 300+ is good with 300 the low end these days. If you realise no matter what your not going to be the fastest every time 300 will get the job done any more all the better of course . I would honestly stop at around 400-425 on the stock block...for the fact you will leave plenty on the table as far as longlife goes. The other reason 400-425 is not going to be TOO much in terms of driveline. The 8.8 could prob. use a rear cover brace, some stronger 28 sline axles or a cheapo truck 31spline Tloc and axles. The susp. can be still fairly street and not all out track to plant the power. The trans would need to be beefed up but if your easy on it I think the stocker could make it alittle while/if you can run a cheap stocker until you raise the funds for a better trans and not really suffer TOO bad.

With it being in a Fox 300+ will take care of ALOT of avg. street cars and suprise a good number of people.

With your dealings and results with FTI and from what you have seen in combos here, the friend will have a GOOD leg up...not even going into the toon side of things ...even if it is a fox box you will be able to help him with the basics and get bugged that much more when you learn more and more about that style of eec.

 

[bimmertech]

i think the limit is not in the drivetrain but in the chassis.

300rwhp in a stock fox would be a nightmare, but 500rwhp in a well sorted out '00 cobra r would be just right.

to me it boils down to how much time i can spend on the happy pedal. if you have to let off to stop in time, or if you can't get on it until you are pointed dead ahead then it is too much.

i have alot of brake/suspension mods so my car with 300rwhp feels like a very solid underpowered car. 400rwhp would be right for my car---any more will just make the grin wider and knuckles whiter.

 

[Synned]

You guys make me feel so sad....make me feel sooo slow.
I want to hit the magic 300rwhp mark badly, just don't have the cash.
Anyway, my dads car has around 400rwhp and i'm sorry guys but he took me for a ride down this empty road and it was seriously a little scary...haha you guys probably laugh at that but oh well.

 

[blksn955.o]

In the end its all about enjoying the hobby. Just have fun.

the goals/plans/dreams are what we do to keep it fresh in our heads and put together something that works.

 

[wytstang]

*For me* 350-400rwtq (kb power) from 3500-6000rpms would be plenty to have fun.

 

[Pokageek]

Specifically out of a stock block 306? I would stop at 375-400rwhp of course blown. Especially with that lighter fox body. As we all know now, the notch weighs around 2800#. It will move nicely.

I also agree on the chassy coments above. I blew way past my limits on the stock chassy/susp with 300rwhp (with 3.90;s)

Only thing is, there is such a difference in the interior and exterior between sn95 and older fox, I would hate driving the older car...for a 4-600# difference = .4-.7 in the quarter , I'll just get a beefier engine.

 

[reddy351]

+1 on the "OEM driveline parts no longer are built like old top loader 4 speed & 9" rear ends"

I had a 1966 Fairlane 500 with a Dart Windsor Sr headed 351w, a Toploader 4 speed and a 9" with 3.55/1 gears. It had disc brakes on the front, from a 71 Torino. That car was a "can't have a bad day" while driving it. If you did, things could get ugly QUICK. There was about 400hp to the wheels, and there were days that it was harrowing to drive. That was certainly enough hp for a "not very good" stopping/turning car. It would be fun in a 94/95, Stang, though.

I agree with 300-350rwhp, for the Fox. Enough to be a lot of fun, easy on the driveline, not a lot of headaches keeping it running.

Just my opinion.

 

[Rootus]

It very much depends on the car and the person.

My Cobra was a pig and even with 450 whp it needed more oomph. Had great top-end pull (trapped 118 mph), but in order to appreciate it you had to bypass all legal speed limits and then some.

My STI, on the other hand, is quite pleasant to drive with ~300 whp. It's still kinda heavy, but gearing is different and with the amount of speed I can hold in a corner, it turns out to be just about perfect for my daily driver.

So...

Given my experience thus far, I think if I were starting again I would aim for a well rounded package. Light wheels, good brakes, vastly upgraded suspension, and then a 347 and a good H/C/I setup. Aim for a solid 350 whp and I think it would be a real blast to drive. And not so much power that breaking things becomes a constant concern.

 

[Adam95GT]

i think it depends on the driver really... what do you feel like driving every day... i mean 300-350 is great for me... but not for someone else... I think 350-400 would be a great DD and it would be reliable... I mean... have him rethink the juice... 350 would be nice... but an added 100 on the bottle would make it a fun track car as well...

 

[HISSIN50]

Great thread!

350 ft-lbs at the rear wheels is about all a slow poke like me cares about. That had nothing to do with anything Grady, and I apologize. I do think it's nice to encompass a little talk about torque on street machines (I could care less about HP but like tons of low end torque and a flat T-curve). That's just a different kind of perspective.

 

[final5-0]

It very much depends on the car and the person.

My Cobra was a pig and even with 450 whp it needed more oomph. Had great top-end pull (trapped 118 mph), but in order to appreciate it you had to bypass all legal speed limits and then some.

My STI, on the other hand, is quite pleasant to drive with ~300 whp. It's still kinda heavy, but gearing is different and with the amount of speed I can hold in a corner, it turns out to be just about perfect for my daily driver.

So...

Given my experience thus far, I think if I were starting again I would aim for a well rounded package. Light wheels, good brakes, vastly upgraded suspension, and then a 347 and a good H/C/I setup. Aim for a solid 350 whp and I think it would be a real blast to drive. And not so much power that breaking things becomes a constant concern.

Hey Dave

Good to see you on the site again

Yea ... I mentioned a 347 to him but he still remembers their early days of
excessive oil consumption

He thought his only stroker option was 331 but is currently looking into
347 options since I let him know his concern was no longer an issue.

I told him we could easily get 350 to 375rwhp from a 347 NA setup with
drivability similar to mine and in that light weight coupe ... It would really fly

I got a gut feeling he will stick to a 306 if he goes forced however

He has asked me about tuning that old Fox pcm
Not looking forward to learning about a new box at all

Grady

 

[final5-0]

Great thread!

350 ft-lbs at the rear wheels is about all a slow poke like me cares about. That had nothing to do with anything Grady, and I apologize. I do think it's nice to encompass a little talk about torque on street machines (I could care less about HP but like tons of low end torque and a flat T-curve). That's just a different kind of perspective.

All that stuff looks good to me as well JT

Since that coupe of his is really light, I'm gonna bring up this line of thought ... that is ... if he goes NA

The need for a really steep gear is not gonna be as critical as it is in our
heavy pig Stangs.

He feels the same as us about torque on a Street Car is more fun than
putting a focus on peak horsepower

He has made a good bit of noise about how my 4th gear pulls from down low
and due to that ... he may have Ed cut him a cam

I told him the t-5 would live since I know he won't be doing things
such as drag strip like launches or power shifting or anything like that.

Grady

 

[Bosko5.0]

SOMETHINGS WRONG WITH GRADY HIS FIRST POST HAD NO SMILIES?????????

If you want my input couldnt you have Lets just say 400hp-500hp then couldn't you go for a different lower gear to make it more streetable, and leave all the power higher up in the rpm range, If needed.

He probaly could do H/C/I on the 306 and that should put him close to 325-375hp.

I have stock every thing except exhaust(maybe 220hp) and 3.55 outback and I hate driving after it rain or in the rain my car has little to no traction in wet weather.and when it dry and turn/ accelerate i can go sideways easily. but once you get use the car you can tell when it want to break loose and let off gas,.

streetable= how much the car makes hp wise + how the car can handle that power.

 

[Guero]

Around 420 is good for me. But thats spraying....The way I see it I dont always need the 400 horses but when I do it there for me to beat some ass!

 

[BlownFiveLiter]

I didn't read any of this thread. Grady, are you feeling alright? You didn't use a single emoticon in your original post!

 

[badstang123]

I'd say 108 bhp is enough to take care of daily activities in a conservative fashion.

But as far as us adrenaline and power junkies...I think somewhere around 350 to 400 at the rear wheels is more than enough. Any more than that just isn't reasonable for the street. Even if the car puts it to the ground efficiently and under control there just isn't any reason for it. We may always want more...but as far as enough...I think that more than covers it.