Here's hoping you dont need to glue together LS heads to make your car run "right."
Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.
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I'll say...I'm thinking that I'll give it as much attention as I can and if it keeps phcking w/ me, the turbo will have to go.
OK Mike I looked over the log and made a few changes to get the AFR closer to target. I pulled the timing in boost all the way down to 10* we are now pulling more than 2* per psi.....Well, the Monster is legit. He is a bonafide street car.
I decided against the personalized plate. The reason for that was simple. I did not want to have to explain a bazillion times what it meant when only the twelve of us know why it's called GMONSTR.
Other contributing factors were that the state of Alabama decided to charge me for all three years that the car has been in my possession despite the fact that it has been non-running.
So,...I paid $171.00 to license the Monster today,..when I was expecting 70.
I intend to modify the coverage I put on the Monster to include a stated value policy, But for the sake of what I wanted to accomplish today, all I needed was proof of ins.
It did drive the distance. There and back was about a 20 mile round trip. I'm starting to become concerned that what I think are 3.55's are way deeper than that. It seem that the car runs at 2400-2600 RPM at what I think is 70 MPH. I still need to properly calibrate the speedo to be sure,..but it's like the engine is spinning way to high to be in 4th gear to be a 3.55.
I'll have to look into that more.
After I got it back I removed the Autolite 65 plugs (which looked perfect,..IDK why I decided to go colder0 But I installed a set of 64's that I have had since day 1. I gapped them to .032, and then took the car for a drive.
This thing detonates so bad when you try to put your foot on the floor that had these been hyperU craptic pistons, they'd be broken by now. I'm only talkin about 1 second of that, but there is clearly something wrong.
When I roll into the throttle, as long as I keep it at about 1/2 throttle, it pings. Stand on it, and it freakin rattles.
Here's my new Auto- Hypochondriacism.
Along time ago I was building a Clevor that I intended to put nitrous on.I planned to use a open chamber 2v head. After reading and talkin to people, I learned that the lack of a "quench area" would cause the engine to detonate very easily.
Consequently,..I bailed on the Clevor thing, and just went w/ a conventional Windsor head instead. I never got to see for myself whether or not that head was gonna cause rampant detonation.
This is a pic of that chamber.
And this is the closed chamber version of that head. The flat area is necessary to promote a clean burn, as it forces more complete combustion as a result a tighter packed mixture.
Now,......this is the Monster's camber:
I'm not seeing no quench.
I knew this in the back of my head, but gave it little consideration. Now it may be that this is why the thing is rattling.
Then again,..It could just be tune related. Time will tell I guess.
If that turns out to be the case,..it'll be the death nail for any boost north of probably 5 P.S.I. as this all ties back to lack of quench being intolerant of high cylinder pressure.
we may need to look into using a different timing light on the thing, try and see if there is any timing drift with RPM....
No,...that is a Barra. Engine has a DOHC head,...Different architecture similar to a mod motor w/cross bolted mains.
Gotcha, I was trying to remember some of the key points about that cylinder head-I'll go back and read it
This is a Barra in stock config
And this is a barra NOT in stock config
In my favorite you tube video of a turbocharged inline 6 cylinder
I know a guy with cylinder heads and a willingness to provide LS parts to stangnet membersNope,..not from what I understand. The only cure is to not try and pound a bunch of cylinder pressure in there.
The other option,.....waaaaaayyyy down the road,...and probably NEVER......is this:
That is a sectioned pair of LS heads on a Ford 300 six banger.
The engine is longer than my 250,..so a LS bolt pattern will probably NOT work,...but the power this thing could make.
Yeah,.....that would only go as far as checking the bore spacing to find out that the 250 is not the same as a 300.
That will never happen for the sake of the turbo.
And the 250 was always intended to have one.
Hence the catch 22 paradigm.
There's a guy on the F.E.P forums that haunts the 6 cylinder forums from New Zealand that is an absolute encyclopedia when it comes to this engine and whether or not anybody is using the head w/ a turbo. He's also an engineer of some kind.
I'm gonna float out a similar thread to this last update there and see if he can shed some light on whether or not I'll ever be able to tune the detonation away, or whether or not it's the chamber design causing it.
He'll also be able to give me an idea of how much power I'll be looking at N/A if I remove the turbo altogether, so I'm gonna go over there now, and throw this lure in the water.
Do you remember my post on octane boost? You may decide to revisit it just for the sake of having a "Plan B" for special occasions when you really want to run higher boost.
I'm thinking that before any talk of ditching this or that, a fully documented trip to a professional tuner might be in order.
Now, I've been to tuners that read the steps off of a set of cards no doubt, but I've also been to tuners that knew how to diagnose and apply effective changes. You got any of those near you Mike?
Now, I've been to tuners that read the steps off of a set of cards no doubt, but I've also been to tuners that knew how to diagnose and apply effective changes. You got any of those near you Mike?
Yeah,...trust me,...I've felt boost now. The turbo will be in the plan for as long as I can keep it. Originally, I planned to go with a guy the works w/ my turbo supplier, but he was always too busy when it came time to get this thing up and running. He was gonna charge like 500-600.00 and actually come over to my house to get a initial start up map going so I could start the thing. with the rest of the time spent on the dyno.
Didn't happen.
When I got it started, then the whole head gasket fiasco w/ the leaking copper HG ensued, after that he was never reachable,...too much hassle.
I got it running myself.
Now,...we're here. Today is Vid #2 day,..but the camera is gonna be on the roof pointing forward. I'll dump Steve's revised tune into the car and we'll all go for a drive again. (I got the only fairmont that'll comfortably seat 12).
I looked at my datalog. When I stepped on the car yesterday and opened the throttle progressively albeit alot quicker, the thing showed me almost 11 p.s.i. at less than half throttle. When it peaked, the AFR was big fat at 10.8, the timing was at 17.1, the MAT was mega cool at 72.9 degrees......There is no reason this btch should be detonating, unless it needs more octane than what I'm currently feeding it at 93 octane.
I'm gonna go down to the turbo supplier today, and see what he thinks. Like right now, as it's pretty cold this morning, and I'm gonna wait till after noon for the test drive.
Good luck today, hope you get some good insight. Also, meant to tell you yesterday, but I think the exhaust looks better in black than it did in orange.
I've been reviewing portions of the thread and looking at possible mechanical reasons why the tune should be such a PITA.
Found a couple of:
Hmmm....
but no OMGWTFBBQ!
yet. 
Found a couple of:
Hmmm....
but no OMGWTFBBQ!
Fwiw I can see the detonation in the datalog. It comes in as a transient in the afr. However without the car in front of me it is difficult to troubleshoot issues.
I just talked to Reed at Work turbo where I got my turbo from.
Said its two things,....both in the tune.
(Well, 4 things actually)
# 1. Nobody is gonna be able to cyber tune a car safely ( as you have already stated Steve)
# 2. Given that the timing that my light is showing is accurate, the transition from N/A to boost may need to be more lead-in as opposed to going from 39 degrees at 90 kpa, and jumping straight to 18 at 100.
#3. The fuel transition is more than likely the problem. Similar to acceleration enrichment, there isn't enough fuel through the transition to properly feed the engine.
#4.
He thinks (for today) I should remove the line that goes to the dome so that pressure can escape to atmosphere ( just in case it isn't) otherwise, there's trapped air on top of the diaphragm that won't let the spring open at 5 p.s.i. He said that a crappy chamber like mine has will not be a factor that tuning can't deal with,..so yea.
He wants me to get back in touch with the tuner guy that was always too busy to talk to me back when I had the money. Now,that 500.00 for the dyno tune is probably gonna have to come outta my ass, cause I sure don't know where else I'm gonna get it from.
He did say one other thing:
He thinks that the power the car will make will surprise me, even limited to 10 p.s.i.. And he knows I'm only expecting 300-400.
Getting mikes mini washed at a car wash right now, as we are still restricted from water usage at the residence due to the drought. When that's done, I'll get what remains of my hair cut,...then eat, and remove those two lines from the wg's and see if this damn thing will stay at 5p.s.i.
Edit: deleted post.
10-4 Mike.
I will rebuild the tune again, I am going to give you tune based on an ls engine. Maybe we will have better luck that way.
Cylinder head is way different than I expected.
10-4 Mike.
I will rebuild the tune again, I am going to give you tune based on an ls engine. Maybe we will have better luck that way.
Cylinder head is way different than I expected.
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Another reason to like Reed. Bought my turbos from him as well. Those guys are awesome, and that kind of customer support is rare considering it doesn't have 
to do with the turbo
to do with the turbo- Status