Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

Status
Not open for further replies.
#4,881
The thing that makes me think negatively about E85 is that I have read it can vary drastically in quality from pump to pump, especially in areas where it isnt common. Meaning your tune may work great one tank, but after your next fill up you will need to adjust your tune... I have never run it, even living in Iowa where it is at almost every pump, but have read about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

  • Sponsors (?)


#4,882
RaggedGT said:
Sorry mike,I misread the water meth kit part.. lol... still some good e85 info at that link though :)
Click to expand...
I read it. I was close to going that path save for the fact that I'm so close w/ the gas tune. I wish that I knew somebody that had one of those NHRA cubic inch calculator thingys that they use for classes that are C.I. limited. to be 100% sure of the compression ratio.


However.

95BlueStallion said:
The thing that makes me think negatively about E85 is that I have read it can vary drastically in quality from pump to pump, especially in areas where it isnt common. Meaning your tune may work great one tank, but after your next fill up you will need to adjust your tune... I have never run it, even living in Iowa where it is at almost every pump, but have read about it.
Click to expand...

I have heard of the inconsistency between fill ups/stations, but haven't done anything more to check into that beyond hearing about it. When you read raggedy's linked info, it looks like the problem can be tied back to the fact that water can get into the fuel so easily. With the occasional use that the car will see, that means a lot of time spent in high humidity with less than a full tank, I'll have to look into that more seriously.

But,...it is like a siren call.

To think that simply converting over will add up to between 10- 40% RWTQ over gasoline, and the engine will run significantly cooler in 90 degree heat is a strong reason to consider it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
#4,883
You busted my chops once for the Rocket fuel post, but that is a cheaper and less problematic answer than E85. Rocket fuel is essentially Toluene or Xylene added to pump gas to bring the octane level up. Many pump gas blends have a small amount of Toluene or Xylene blended with them. Add Toluene to pump gas and get an easy 100 octane brew that won't sabotage your fuel system by making everything corrode.

See http://www.worldofchemicals.com/428...ive-for-racing-fuels-fuel-octane-booster.html

http://vanilla47.com/PDFs/Toluene/BESTCHEM Racing Fuel additive - Toluene (114 octane).pdf

Follow the link below for extensive information on using Toluene as an octane booster.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=toluene+as+a+gas+additive
since it is your project, I suggest that you do some Googling and see what e
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
#4,884
jrichker said:
You busted my chops once for the Rocket fuel post, but that is a cheaper and less problematic answer than E85. Rocket fuel is essentially Toluene or Xylene added to pump gas to bring the octane level up. Many pump gas blends have a small amount of Toluene or Xylene blended with them. Add Toluene to pump gas and get an easy 100 octane brew that won't sabotage your fuel system by making everything corrode.

See http://www.worldofchemicals.com/428...ive-for-racing-fuels-fuel-octane-booster.html

http://vanilla47.com/PDFs/Toluene/BESTCHEM Racing Fuel additive - Toluene (114 octane).pdf

Follow the link below for extensive information on using Toluene as an octane booster.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=toluene+as+a+gas+additive
since it is your project, I suggest that you do some Googling and see what e
Click to expand...


Have you done this before? What size was the fuel tank, how much Toluene did you use? Did you mix any of the other suggested ingredients?

I wouldn't mind an extra point or two in the new car particularly, if it were cheaper to start with 89 octane fuel vs. 93 with no ill effect.
 
#4,885
Noobz347 said:
Have you done this before? What size was the fuel tank, how much Toluene did you use? Did you mix any of the other suggested ingredients?

I wouldn't mind an extra point or two in the new car particularly, if it were cheaper to start with 89 octane fuel vs. 93 with no ill effect.
Click to expand...
I have done it and it makes even a relatively stock 5.0 run much smoother. I used straight Toluene from Home Depot, which is the expensive way to buy it. The gotcha is that in high concentrations of greater that 1 gallon Toluene to 5 gallons of pump gas that the car becomes harder to start a cold engine.
 
#4,886
jrichker said:
You busted my chops once for the Rocket fuel post, but that is a cheaper and less problematic answer than E85. Rocket fuel is essentially Toluene or Xylene added to pump gas to bring the octane level up. Many pump gas blends have a small amount of Toluene or Xylene blended with them. Add Toluene to pump gas and get an easy 100 octane brew that won't sabotage your fuel system by making everything corrode.

See http://www.worldofchemicals.com/428...ive-for-racing-fuels-fuel-octane-booster.html

http://vanilla47.com/PDFs/Toluene/BESTCHEM Racing Fuel additive - Toluene (114 octane).pdf

Follow the link below for extensive information on using Toluene as an octane booster.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=toluene+as+a+gas+additive
since it is your project, I suggest that you do some Googling and see what e
Click to expand...
Well joe,...far be it from me to challenge the advice that you offer, because 99% of the time it is spot on, and much appreciated.

But....

According to the stuff you linked, I read that if I mix 11.2 gallons of 93 octane with 4.8 gallons of tolulene and pour that mix into my 16 gallon tank,...It'll yield a 99.3 octane. Which is great.

But,.........

According to what I read,..a 5 container gallon of tolulene costs $160.00. That's 160 DOLLARS, on top of the $30.00 that that the premium costs, for a total per tank cost of 190.00. for a tank of 99 octane

So,...in the grand scheme of things,....at 1.89 a gallon for what will amount to be 100-105 octane fuel,.....I'll take 16 gallons of E85 for 32 dollars everytime.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
#4,887
Dude what the big deal here?......

Turbo coyote 5.0 11:1 comp all day long no issues......

Higher compression raises the speed at which the flame front moves so you have to run lower timing to avoid detonation. Same concept with boost it essentially raises compression.......

So what do we do with that information hmmm.....

Run lower timing. Or higher octane.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
#4,888
a91what said:
Dude what the big deal here?......

Turbo coyote 5.0 11:1 comp all day long no issues......

Higher compression raises the speed at which the flame front moves so you have to run lower timing to avoid detonation. Same concept with boost it essentially raises compression.......

So what do we do with that information hmmm.....

Run lower timing. Or higher octane.
Click to expand...
Or you can kiss rats red bunions......There's always that.;)

I know that. However, there is that cylinder pressure thingy,......the stock HG, old chamber design and 4 studs per hole are probably not on par w/ how a coyote head is clamped down.
 
#4,890
madmike1157 said:
Well joe,...far be it from me to challenge the advice that you offer, because 99% of the time it is spot on, and much appreciated.

But....

According to the stuff you linked, I read that if I mix 11.2 gallons of 93 octane with 4.8 gallons of tolulene and pour that mix into my 16 gallon tank,...It'll yield a 99.3 octane. Which is great.

But,.........

According to what I read,..a 5 container gallon of tolulene costs $160.00. That's 160 DOLLARS, on top of the $30.00 that that the premium costs, for a total per tank cost of 190.00. for a tank of 99 octane

So,...in the grand scheme of things,....at 1.89 a gallon for what will amount to be 100-105 octane fuel,.....I'll take 16 gallons of E85 for 32 dollars everytime.
Click to expand...

Sorry that I didn't check the price for Toluene first, and you are right about it being an expensive cure. The best price I found was $138 for 5 gallons shipped to your door. That still puts it out of the reasonable price range for anything but a big $$$$ championship drag race.
 
#4,891
a91what said:
Running e85 is not going to change cylinder pressure.

Nope not at all.


So much for that low compression no quench thing I originally built your tune around. I'm glad it didn't grenade
Click to expand...
I know that too Steve,...I thought the compression was lower than it is. Maybe it is,....maybe it isn't. Your tune is close I think, and whether the compression is 9.14, or 9.8, or 10.23:1, I know that it's all just a matter of fuel and timing to equal things out.
 
#4,892
madmike1157 said:
I know that too Steve,...I thought the compression was lower than it is. Maybe it is,....maybe it isn't. Your tune is close I think, and whether the compression is 9.14, or 9.8, or 10.23:1, I know that it's all just a matter of fuel and timing to equal things out.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mike. I think with safe timing you can still let the boost build. We need to figure out where the torque peaks, pull timing there.

Peak torque means peak cylinder pressure
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
#4,893
a91what said:
Thanks Mike. I think with safe timing you can still let the boost build. We need to figure out where the torque peaks, pull timing there.

Peak torque means peak cylinder pressure
Click to expand...
Well that's gonna be tough if the engine follows the example I posted earlier. The engine should make peak torque somewhere in the 2600 RPM zone and stay there through 5k.
 
#4,894
Well hell.

I google how to test an external wastegate spring using air compressor, watch the You tube video, and go downstairs to go about the pain-in-the-ass ritual of removing my Chinee Turbosmart copy wastegates.
Once done with that I go about cobbling together the necessary junk to make a regulator w/ a very accurate low pressure gauge to be able to see where these things start to crack open, and what pressure is required to get them to full open.

image.jpeg


Now I have two tire pressure gauges from back in my drag racing days fro measuring drag slick pressure. These things are incremented in like 1/4 pound increments so I figure that this has to be the most accurate gauge I can put into this contraption.

So,..more scrounging around, and I find a piece of vacuum tubing and a hose barby dude, and I'm all set to check this thing.

I apply pressure and start to roll up the regulator...4 pounds, 5, 6,7,8,9,10, 11,12, (I'm hearing escaping air pressure) 13, and finally at between 13, and 14 p.s.i., these things start to move. It takes beyond the gauge reading to fully open them, all the while air pressure is bleeding past the valve and it's guide.

I know these pieces of crap are working at less than that pressure, so I'm now concerned that my testing procedure is somehow suspect. I switch the gauge from the longacre piece that I've pictured above to a Moroso unit that I also had laying around in a drawer. (Effectively killing off two barely used drag slick testing air pressure gauges,....but that's OK,.....I guarantee you that I'll never have a drag car again)
The test is the same.

I open the thing, and get the other springs on the off chance that I have installed the higher pressure spring....I haven't. Now the gate wont open at all based on the 15p.s.i that the gauge reads, and finally opens at some point well north of that.

So I decide that some of the leakage must go away with heat. As this piece of crap gets hot, some of that slop must tighten up, but it still sucks,....there's no way in hell that I'm gonna use a wastegate that is leaking boost pressure past it's guide.

This effectively kills the Monster for a long time. I haven't the freakin foggiest idea where I'm gonna turn over a rock and find the 600.00 that a new set of turbosmart 38mm gates are gonna cost me. I have to use them though,...the exhaust is built specifically for that style.

Here,....let me use this little dude.:doh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
#4,896
The VS racing gates I have are Tial knock-offs. Which seems to be the most popular gate to copy. Viren is a real good dude and has had a lot of good luck with them.
I'll say I've got less in both BOVs and gates than the price you quoted for new turbosmart gates. Let me know if you want more info

Edit: I realize mine are vband flange and yours are not but I know for the money saved you could make that change work.
 
#4,899
madmike1157 said:
I'm just gonna bite the bullet and buy some precision turbo gates through amazon. They are two bolt flange just like turbosmart, and can get them for around 220 ea.
Click to expand...
I know personally of a few guys having good luck with the Emusa eBay gates as well. They have 38s for well under $100 each. I won't knock going name brand though, especially on something critical like a gate. I just remember how expensive my PW46s and turbosmart BOV were for the cobra
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back
New
Hot
Menu