Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

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#4,901
95BlueStallion said:
Its like I am the Monster's human form speaking to you... But for your sake, lets hope not based on my rods and pistons suggestion.
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So in other words, this is an "I told you so moment?"

I'll do this because I have already witnessed stupidly wild boost fluctuations w/ this car having only got about 50 miles on it. Especially since I may have excessive compression just to be safe.
The Precision gates come w/ three springs, and real turbosmart units only come w/one. The precision unit is less money as well which makes it less painful, but it's still 440.00.

The only reason I may end up getting T-smart gates, and a single spring is the fact that I have my cool hard lines plumbed for that style of top dome. If they are tapped in the same orientation as the P.O.S. Chinee pieces, then they would probably be a straight conversion,....the precision pieces,......IDK.
I tell ya, now that I know that the car will live at 10 p.s.i. I should just do away w/ that stupid electronic boost controller, throw in the 10 pound springs, and tune it to that. What ever it makes at ten, it makes. Then I'll only have to line up one set of hard lines.
 
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#4,902
tannerc91gt said:
The VS racing gates I have are Tial knock-offs. Which seems to be the most popular gate to copy. Viren is a real good dude and has had a lot of good luck with them.
I'll say I've got less in both BOVs and gates than the price you quoted for new turbosmart gates. Let me know if you want more info

Edit: I realize mine are vband flange and yours are not but I know for the money saved you could make that change work.
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There's just too much at stake w/ this stupid turbo set up. Two gates, each responsible for 3 cylinders each need to be pretty much spot on w/ regard to being matched boost wise.
If this was one mono scroll turbo, I'd be inclined to consider a Chinee alternative, but since it isn't,...I'm putting the good junk on.
 
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#4,903
While tearing up the internet the last day looking at my different wastegate solutions, I come across Amazon. They are offering every single mfg's product at basically the most aggressive price. (trust me,....I looked)
The precision gates will force a re-do of my lines, but they are the best deal.
upload_2017-1-3_7-31-48.webp


So,....American gates instead of the Chinee version that cost fully 1/4 the price. You have to wonder how they can cast, assemble, pkg, and ship a version of this for 59 bucks?
I'll have them in 2 days,....I'll install the 5 pound spring, and re-perform my little pressure test.

In the interim, be thinking about why I shouldn't put the 10 pound springs in and install them and be done.
 
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#4,904
madmike1157 said:
While tearing up the internet the last day looking at my different wastegate solutions, I come across Amazon. They are offering every single mfg's product at basically the most aggressive price. (trust me,....I looked)
The precision gates will force a re-do of my lines, but they are the best deal.
upload_2017-1-3_7-31-48.webp


So,....American gates instead of the Chinee version that cost fully 1/4 the price. You have to wonder how they can cast, assemble, pkg, and ship a version of this for 59 bucks?
I'll have them in 2 days,....I'll install the 5 pound spring, and re-perform my little pressure test.

In the interim, be thinking about why I shouldn't put the 10 pound springs in and install them and be done.
Click to expand...
We have a Amazon prime account, free shipping and most times next day delivery, even on sundays, great prices on most automotive parts and accessories, although some take a while to get, that girl on the other end of the couch got it for the free books she reads
 
#4,907
madmike1157 said:
You have to wonder how they can cast, assemble, pkg, and ship a version of this for 59 bucks?
Click to expand...


It's easy. The people working for them make two dollars a day, and they have zero quality control guidelines or specs to concern themselves with.


When I was piecing together my chinee kit, before I replaced my wastegate with a precision unit, I called the owner of On3 to ask why the plethora of springs promised to me in writing wasn't there, he replied with, "I quit shipping them, because people always break the wastegate changing them out. Just buy a boost controller. That's what everybody does anyway." Yay Chad. Did I mention I shipped the wastegate and turbo to him for repair and never got the wastegate back? When I called him, he called me a liar..

Anyway, I bought a little manual turbosmart boost controller. It works great.... at least Chad was honest about that.
 
#4,908
95BlueStallion said:
So you test the new gates, and assuming they check out, you install them. Then what is your plan? Revised pump gas tune, or venturing down the E85 road?
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You gotta consider that at 5 psi from a set of real wastegates I'm more than likely to be able to do something I haven't been able to completely do yet....

Mat the gas pedal from idle.

Matter of fact, even after getting the car sideways in low gear, I was still rolling, and even at that I still rolled into the throttle. Datalog showed I only opened the TB to 40%.

Now,...If I can be sure that I won't get some obscene boost spike like Collin did, and keep it all tame relatively speaking,...I may be able to flog the thing at 5 p.s.i., and that may be all do able running pump gas w/ whatever compression I have currently.

And depending on how that goes and feels,......hell,...maybe that'll be enough?:rolleyes:
 
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#4,909
I want to try another timing table. Your timing curve seems to be like that of a early ....... Wait for it........


HONDA......... seriously.

I just got done tuning one, they need very conservative timing in boost even with low compression. By 15psi I only had 10* in the motor..... by 25psi I had 5*.

No joke.

:leghump:ing Japanese engine was an animal.
 
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#4,910
a91what said:
I want to try another timing table. Your timing curve seems to be like that of a early ....... Wait for it........


HONDA......... seriously.

I just got done tuning one, they need very conservative timing in boost even with low compression. By 15psi I only had 10* in the motor..... by 25psi I had 5*.

No joke.

****ing Japanese engine was an animal.
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Very obnoxious animal, lots of teeth.
 
#4,914
a91what said:
I want to try another timing table. Your timing curve seems to be like that of a early ....... Wait for it........


HONDA......... seriously.

I just got done tuning one, they need very conservative timing in boost even with low compression. By 15psi I only had 10* in the motor..... by 25psi I had 5*.

No joke.

****ing Japanese engine was an animal.
Click to expand...
It'll be a minute...gotta wait till the new gates are here.
 
#4,918
Boosted92LX said:
It's easy. The people working for them make two dollars a day, and they have zero quality control guidelines or specs to concern themselves with.


When I was piecing together my chinee kit, before I replaced my wastegate with a precision unit, I called the owner of On3 to ask why the plethora of springs promised to me in writing wasn't there, he replied with, "I quit shipping them, because people always break the wastegate changing them out. Just buy a boost controller. That's what everybody does anyway." Yay Chad. Did I mention I shipped the wastegate and turbo to him for repair and never got the wastegate back? When I called him, he called me a liar..

Anyway, I bought a little manual turbosmart boost controller. It works great.... at least Chad was honest about that.
Click to expand...
Nothing but hatred for that company
 
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#4,919
a91what said:
That looks good Mike. I think your catching on.
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is there a way to add another kpa row between 160 and 200? In other words,...boost at 10 psi is 168.2 kpa on my tuning tables.
If we could set the AFR table into rows of 10 from maybe 130 up.....is that do able? Is it even necessary?
I was just looking at the datalog I had to compare against Collin's and because the rows are so far apart, once everything starts to transition through the table timing falls dramatically almost straight through the floor, and then the slope decreases to a more gradual retard when it's making boost.
 
#4,920
madmike1157 said:
is there a way to add another kpa row between 160 and 200? In other words,...boost at 10 psi is 168.2 kpa on my tuning tables.
If we could set the AFR table into rows of 10 from maybe 130 up.....is that do able? Is it even necessary?
I was just looking at the datalog I had to compare against Collin's and because the rows are so far apart, once everything starts to transition through the table timing falls dramatically almost straight through the floor, and then the slope decreases to a more gradual retard when it's making boost.
Click to expand...
You can't add rows, per se, but you can edit the values in the rows to add more resolution in the higher RPMs. You can just click on the kPa value and change it to what you want.
 
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