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Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

  • Thread starter Thread starter CarMichael Angelo
  • Start date Start date Aug 26, 2013
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    1978 2jzgte 6 cylinder american racing ar 500 australian head custom interior cyclone cyclone spoiler fairmont ford fuel injected futura indepedant throttle bodies inline ms3x roller cam snow cooler turbocharged
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a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
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#4,921
  • Jan 4, 2017
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madmike1157 said:
is there a way to add another kpa row between 160 and 200? In other words,...boost at 10 psi is 168.2 kpa on my tuning tables.
If we could set the AFR table into rows of 10 from maybe 130 up.....is that do able? Is it even necessary?
I was just looking at the datalog I had to compare against Collin's and because the rows are so far apart, once everything starts to transition through the table timing falls dramatically almost straight through the floor, and then the slope decreases to a more gradual retard when it's making boost.
Click to expand...
It's looks as though it falls off dramatically because you have multiple lines running on different scales.... it also depends on how timing is being pulled, is it setup linear? Or does each row pull it's own amount?

If you are pulling timing linearly you technically only need one row above 100kpa.

Let's say you wanted to pull 1* per psi up to 15psi. With a wot total of 27* at 100kpa.

Simply set the 100kpa row to 27*
Then make a row above it at 203kpa with timing set to 12*
The boost retard will be a perfectly linear 1*per psi up to 15psi where it will level off to 12. But it will not retard past 12 even if you pummel 30psi into it.

Sometimes fewer rows is better so that you don't play with the number in between them too much. One row above 100kpa with your total retard amount is much simpler and will act more like a BTM. Set it and forget it.
 
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a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
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#4,922
  • Jan 4, 2017
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Collins nonlinear timing curve in boost is because he has it setup that way. He pulls more timing early then the second retard amount is less.

Say 1* up to 10psi /then he pulls .5* per psi above 10.
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
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#4,923
  • Jan 5, 2017
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Oh for fuksake.... Will someone come up with a way to just look through the damned thread pictures already?

Who's running this chit-chow anyway? Just trying to find a damned image....


 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
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Birmingham, al
Jan 6, 2017
#4,924
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,924
So,.....off early today,...courtesy of the weatherman.
When I get home,...three boxes from Amazon are standing in the door way.....(wonder what's inside) This was supposed to be one of my better kept secrets from the wife because if she finds out that :
A. These things cost 440.00 when I am constantly complaining about never having any money (now that I'm on the regular "fixed" BMW income)
B. That I applied for 6mo same as cash to pay for them,...even though it's entirely on me

She'll have a come apart.

So,....I got the two Turbosmart gates,.....These are the models that my Chinee copies were made off of...

Actually it's kinda ironic. The Turbosmart gates are domestic.........If you live in New South Wales, Australia that is.

One more Australian add-on.

Anybody interested how different the domestic vs the Chinee copy actually is?
 
Reactions: dr. Dan W., 7991LXnSHO, 90sickfox and 3 others

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
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#4,925
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,925
Yes, I think I need pics,
 

RaggedGT

Been here over a DECADE and still no CT
Mod Dude
Jul 20, 2014
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Taylorsville ky
Jan 6, 2017
#4,926
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,926
madmike1157 said:
One more Australian add-on.

Anybody interested how different the domestic vs the Chinee copy actually is?
Click to expand...

Yes...

Video explanation of said difference..
 
Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
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90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
SN Certified Technician
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#4,927
  • Jan 6, 2017
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Yes....we need a comparison !

Why oh why must you play with our emotions like this ?
 
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hoopty5.0

mechanicus terribilis
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#4,928
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,928
I'm more interested in hearing how you're still married after applying for a loan without your wife knowing.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
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Birmingham, al
Jan 6, 2017
#4,929
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,929
Ok,...I aint given you no video.

You just have to suffice w/ stills and my witty commentary.

When last we remember The chinee waste gates wouldn't open until 14 p.s.i., despite the fact that they had 5 pound springs.
The reason for the HUGE difference was due to the slop between the valve, and the guide. MOF, air was escaping so significantly,..it literally backed up against the palm of your hand when you blocked both the inlet and outlet w/ the palms of your hand.
When you have an engine that has an unknown compression ration due to the fact that I have either got dimensia, alzheimers, oldtimers, or some other brain disintegrating illness,...having no clue where your boost is gonna top out would be......................
Bad. Yes,.....let's just say that having a wastegate just arbitrarily decide to spike up to 15p.s.i. would be extremely bad.

So,...they needed to go.

I will not rehash the jugphck that took place to get two new gates, but let me just say this about that...they are lucky that those gates arrived here today. Especially considering that this city has effectively shut down due to the fact that we are in an ice storm as of this minute.

But I digress.

I open the gates and immediately you can see the difference. The quality of the part is obvious. The valve is similar to what you'd expect in a high perf automotive engine, and had a stepped tapered stem. When you look at the Chinee gate,..big ole Klondor looking thing, w/ no taper.
The Tsmart gate is significantly heavier than the Chinee copy. Probably the difference between alloys on the body castings and internals making up the difference there.

The thing passes the "Why did I pay 4 times more than a Chinee piece" test just by sight and feel.

But I needed to do the pressure test to complete my review.

I rigged up the exact same tester that I used on the Ding-Pao version, and applied slow incremented pressure to the bottom port of the gate. (These things are supposed to have 7 pound springs).

Gate #1 (The blue gate):
The gate started to crack open at 8.5 pounds, and was fully open at 15 p.s.i. There was zero leakage past the guide, and every other time I applied pressure to the gate it did the exact same thing.

Gate #2 (The black gate):

This one started to open at 8 p.s.i, and was also fully open by 15 p.s.i. It also duplicated that standard everytime I re-applied pressure.

That left me w/ a half pound discrepancy between the gates.

Do I care about that?

Do I have to get the finger out for a final answer?...........................well?.....................Of course not.

Not only does the finger say no,..The fingers says Hell no!

So,..I got these two gates,..one is black, and one is blue. Considering that I name almost everything when I talk about this car...
(i.e Winkin, and Blinkin,...G vents/Gills/Nostrils/Hole,)........... I'd guess that you'd think I'd probably have a name for the waste gates.

No silly,...they're wastegates. Why in the hell would I name some inanimate object?

I'm all prattled out,....I guess I'll tie this up with my pictorial.






Now I'm gonna tell ya,...That back blue gate is a sonofabtch to put on,..you can bet I was cussing up a storm.

So,...I'm back in the boost business. The only casualty was one hard line,...For whatever reason there was enough difference between the Chinee and the Aussie, that that short hard line looked like ass. So,..I'll have to make a new one.

In the mean time,..I'm drinkin grapefruit tasting beer.



And I have a "don't ask, don't tell" thingy going on w/ the wife,.....She didn't ask,....and I'm not tellin.
 

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90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands
SN Certified Technician
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#4,930
  • Jan 6, 2017
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You'll mess around and match your gates....black and blue. Lol

Wear the helmet cam while she kicks your butt.... We'll be watching.

Edit; the head cam thingy...

For your sake I hope the Monster is fast as hell....you're going to need it buddy.
 
Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
Reactions: A5literMan

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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polk county florida
Jan 6, 2017
#4,931
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,931
She probably don't care what your flavor your beer is.
 

Davedacarpainter

Chicks can make things hard if they’re inspired...
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Discordia
Jan 6, 2017
#4,932
  • Jan 6, 2017
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They look nice Mike, and as Billy Crystal used to say, "it's better to look good, than to feel good."

I hope they feel good too.

Ice storm? When i was stationed there for a short period of time back in the early eighties we had an "ice storm", you think it was armageddon! LOL!

Alabama is worse than Oklahoma, i have to admit, when it comes to inclement cold weather.

I'm looking forward to a "driving with CONTROLLED boost" video.
 

old_blue

15 Year Member
Nov 3, 2003
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Jan 6, 2017
#4,933
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,933
Here are some options if you want to start from scratch

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/5946683364.html

https://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/5916039905.html
 
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Davedacarpainter

Chicks can make things hard if they’re inspired...
SN Certified Technician
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Discordia
Jan 6, 2017
#4,934
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,934
old_blue said:
Here are some options if you want to start from scratch

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/5946683364.html

https://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/5916039905.html
Click to expand...
Oh that's GOOOOD blue!
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
43,317
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Box behind Walmart
Jan 6, 2017
#4,935
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,935
Did anyone notice that the waste gates are different colors?
 
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RaggedGT

Been here over a DECADE and still no CT
Mod Dude
Jul 20, 2014
4,750
3,206
203
Taylorsville ky
Jan 6, 2017
#4,936
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,936
old_blue said:
Here are some options if you want to start from scratch

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/5946683364.html

https://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/5916039905.html
Click to expand...
I like the 2nd one
 

old_blue

15 Year Member
Nov 3, 2003
1,783
282
124
Jan 6, 2017
#4,937
  • Jan 6, 2017
  • #4,937
I was leaning toward the first one. More sleeper.
 
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95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
15 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
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Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Jan 7, 2017
#4,938
  • Jan 7, 2017
  • #4,938
old_blue said:
I was leaning toward the first one. More sleeper.
Click to expand...

Anyone else notice in the list of mods of the first one, "Ebay head studs"? All that work and money, and you skimp on head studs??? I feel like there may be a disclaimer in there in size .00003 font that says, "needs head gaskets at minimum, should probably check out all internal bearings."
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Jan 7, 2017
#4,939
  • Jan 7, 2017
  • #4,939
I wanna know why those two ugly assed cars are polluting my beautiful car thread?
 
Reactions: stangboy, Davedacarpainter, dr. Dan W. and 1 other person

7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
10 Year Member
Sep 1, 2010
7,387
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194
Kearney, NE
Jan 7, 2017
#4,940
  • Jan 7, 2017
  • #4,940
stangboy said:
Unfortunately I won't be buying too much from Amazon anymore because they are now charging sales tax for Louisiana. I guess I'll be going back to ebay.
Click to expand...
Amazon collecting sales taxes keeps us from having to keep track and claim it on the state taxes each year if you prefer not to cheat. I am not impressed with the junk from China on eBay or how they treat honest sellers anymore. Amazon has been good about fair fixing things when two transactions went wrong.
Mike,
Those other Fairmonts are a good reminder how far you took it. Even with bad knees!
 
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