- May 8, 2006
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So I've been away all this time and the Fairmont is not completed? Wait, neither is mine...lol.
Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.
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Drew, 6900 rpm is used on occasion by the Mike Miester.....Bad Mike!
All alloy head sixes with side plates feed rather uncomfortable vibes up through the big in line blocks.
Don't forget, all six cylinder guys were supposed to be cardigan and knee high sock luvin' Ned Falanders types who worry about how to tune the 1-bbl. They question things like if putting a 2-bbl Pinto carb on their 250 might upset some vast eternal plan.
It’s very uncomfortable for V8 owners to then to have dropped back to tremoring Essex V6's and 250 in lines.
The reason for the 100% alloy case AOD and Mazdawg 5 speed gearboxes was because these ended up behind 3.8's, and they vibrated, and chatter and zizzed under load in a very un Windsor v8 manner. It upsets people right being the inner ear lobe, and I can take you to 200 posts on one forum that have six cylinder cars with non-standard ramp cams and stud mounted rocker conversions, and all the owner is worried about is how effing noisy the rocker gear is. It’s not because Mike is becoming an old fuddy duddy, it’s that the noise is real, and it upset 90% of all I6 owners that are stupid enough to Sex up a Six.
Ford Australia from 1978 to 1991 spent so much time with Keller's Swiss division on NVH. To others here, sorry about the language, but all that kHz power spectral density shEE+ is based on finding sound signatures which pi%% off computers, ECM, electric currents, knock sensors, and Soon to be 60'S.
The later Aussie OHC's (1988 to 1992) were especially Rowdy Cartwrights, and Ford Australia hired Tickford/Prodrive in England. Before that time, Ford Australia dicked around with iron webbing in the block, and they redcued the bore size to rasied the frequency of the six cylinder engines combustion process.
That's what the old Knock Sensor formula on sound frequency to bore size relationship does. And why all Honda passenger car in line fours have tiny narrow bore, long stroke engines...to remove unpleasant Pinto, Ranger and Mustang 2.3 bore size related engine roughness.
The Consultant Engineers Ford Australia used had years of I6 XJ40 Jaguar and AJ6 and earlier alloy DBS 4 liter Aston Martin engineering work to draw on, and in due course, decided to pull the 250 in line six based engine apart in sonic labs to fix the noisy and unpleasant "Eye Six" Vibes.
Result for 1993 was they ripped apart the 250 crank, and welded it up with a 12 counterweight crank. And the sump got made of either plastic or coated to pull out the noise.
The alloy heads, much rougher than iron heads, becasue of the drop in aluminums material density verses good old cast iron.
Probably, the Melling cylinder sleeves are vibrating more than a pure cast iron cylinder wall would, as well as the rocker gear, rocker studs, and tie bar lifters.
Fords USA solution was the Ford 240/300 camashfts ramp angle. Instating that spec on a your roller cam, with whatever cam operation you can manage, will probably help a lot.
Of course, the finger came
out when I suggested a Lincoln LSC or VII BMW diesel engine top firewall "NVH Ramp".
But its not me that has to do service on the Gila Monster...
All alloy head sixes with side plates feed rather uncomfortable vibes up through the big in line blocks.
Don't forget, all six cylinder guys were supposed to be cardigan and knee high sock luvin' Ned Falanders types who worry about how to tune the 1-bbl. They question things like if putting a 2-bbl Pinto carb on their 250 might upset some vast eternal plan.
It’s very uncomfortable for V8 owners to then to have dropped back to tremoring Essex V6's and 250 in lines.
The reason for the 100% alloy case AOD and Mazdawg 5 speed gearboxes was because these ended up behind 3.8's, and they vibrated, and chatter and zizzed under load in a very un Windsor v8 manner. It upsets people right being the inner ear lobe, and I can take you to 200 posts on one forum that have six cylinder cars with non-standard ramp cams and stud mounted rocker conversions, and all the owner is worried about is how effing noisy the rocker gear is. It’s not because Mike is becoming an old fuddy duddy, it’s that the noise is real, and it upset 90% of all I6 owners that are stupid enough to Sex up a Six.
Ford Australia from 1978 to 1991 spent so much time with Keller's Swiss division on NVH. To others here, sorry about the language, but all that kHz power spectral density shEE+ is based on finding sound signatures which pi%% off computers, ECM, electric currents, knock sensors, and Soon to be 60'S.
The later Aussie OHC's (1988 to 1992) were especially Rowdy Cartwrights, and Ford Australia hired Tickford/Prodrive in England. Before that time, Ford Australia dicked around with iron webbing in the block, and they redcued the bore size to rasied the frequency of the six cylinder engines combustion process.
That's what the old Knock Sensor formula on sound frequency to bore size relationship does. And why all Honda passenger car in line fours have tiny narrow bore, long stroke engines...to remove unpleasant Pinto, Ranger and Mustang 2.3 bore size related engine roughness.
The Consultant Engineers Ford Australia used had years of I6 XJ40 Jaguar and AJ6 and earlier alloy DBS 4 liter Aston Martin engineering work to draw on, and in due course, decided to pull the 250 in line six based engine apart in sonic labs to fix the noisy and unpleasant "Eye Six" Vibes.
Result for 1993 was they ripped apart the 250 crank, and welded it up with a 12 counterweight crank. And the sump got made of either plastic or coated to pull out the noise.
The alloy heads, much rougher than iron heads, becasue of the drop in aluminums material density verses good old cast iron.
Probably, the Melling cylinder sleeves are vibrating more than a pure cast iron cylinder wall would, as well as the rocker gear, rocker studs, and tie bar lifters.
Fords USA solution was the Ford 240/300 camashfts ramp angle. Instating that spec on a your roller cam, with whatever cam operation you can manage, will probably help a lot.
Of course, the finger came
out when I suggested a Lincoln LSC or VII BMW diesel engine top firewall "NVH Ramp".
But its not me that has to do service on the Gila Monster...
You'd be wrong droop...the rev limiter is set to 6250, and I've bounced off that several times since trying to sort the engine out from first start up a year ago. ( just ask Steve, @a91what ,...he's seen my DL's....he's watched my duty cycles peg at 100% when it does.....)
I'm sure the engine would service a higher RPM band, but my cast rods are suspect. ( if you saw them, you'd probably wanna keep it below 6k, much less 6250.)
Trying to quiet the thing down I'm already running tight lash ( cold) .12/.14)) I read it best to adjust cold because of different rates of expansion when trying to adjust hot, and cold is a better starting point because.....cold is cold.
So that's where that all is...
And for the record....money is tight because of the knee-n-dectomies now 2 months hence...The 300+ dollar investment in a water meth kit would be frivolous for me now,...especially since I've talked about the kit as a possible bday present for her to get me awhile ago. So, out of respect for getting a "surprise" gift, I'll have to wait a few weeks to hopefully,.... finally......be able to flog the piss outta the Monster w/o having to lift because the engine sounds like it just swallowed a bag of rocks.
I can attest to the fact that Mike has in fact maxed out the injectors on his current configuration..... (I set the safety margin at 85%) above 90% duty cycle I don't trust the injector not to spray erratically. Meth would actually richer the mixture and require less fuel.
Hold on, let me tell the wife to mark the calendar. November 1, 2017 1,371,343 time Drew was wrong.
Do you pick your feet up and use a stick to push the peddle down to 6250? Of course a flexplate isn't QUITE as explosive as a clutch and flywheel...
Need more videos at 6,000 plus!!!
Do you pick your feet up and use a stick to push the peddle down to 6250? Of course a flexplate isn't QUITE as explosive as a clutch and flywheel...
Need more videos at 6,000 plus!!!
It's has an automatic already in it...A full, manually shifted 4R70w that has two little buttons to push to put it into 4th and lock up the converter respectively.
I know...I guess my poorly worded attempt at the dangers of flexplate explosion were a FAIL. I saw one about 20 years ago at the drag strip..not pretty.
I am trying to figure out how an injector would spray erratically above 90% duty cycle. What is the difference if it is spraying 20% of the time or 95% of the time? How could it possibly affect spray pattern? Not that it really matters much, 85% is a safe limit to prevent a possible lean condition by maxing out the injector, but that is only an issue if the engine needs more fuel than what the injector can provide at 100%. No sense in taking chances on that.
I suppose erratic was a bad choice of words. What I should have said was the injector going static or semi static and causing a lean condition under boost.
I have never seen this happen before but have read about it plenty, so I follow suit and only go as high as 85%.
While I've had the car at the few shows that I've been to, the one recurring question that people ask of me is how much power it makes.
I always shrug, tell them that it's never been on a dyno, but my " butt dyno" thinks it feels like 350-400 hp.
Today I was bored.
So I went to the key machine, checked out our only M2, and took it out and beat on it....
It feels like the Monster does.
Except...
( the traction control is limiting the tire spin, and the Monster is blowing its tires off, so the monster spinning tires feels like an M2 hooked and cooking.)
What's that tell us?
Rated at 369/343 FWHP/TQ, w/ a 3.43 rear gear and weighing 3450 lbs. it seemed like it was close,
I put the thing in 4th, and matted the pedal,...it seemed similar in how it pulled as well.
As a reference, it felt similar, but I know that if there was a drag radial on the GM, that would probably be where the similarity would end. Conversely, adding timing back into the high boost areas of the map where the monster is in high gear once I start spraying meth will change that as well...
In hindsight, I think I'm pretty close telling people it makes between 350-400 whp now that I've had recent exposure to a decent ride to compare it to...but it's sooo one sided. It's a drag car that I can go around a corner in.
As for the M2... Stopping,....going around a corner,...power transition coming out of that corner is a whole different bag of worms....The ABS is so freakin amazing on a BMW, it's just as much fun to stand on the brake pedal as it is the gas. If you've ever jammed your foot through the floor trying to slow one of these cars so you can make a turn that you've over shot, and the car still turns into the curve,........ If you think " turn" the car does it,....it's no wonder BMW wannabe heros are good when they spend a little track time with one of these cars.
The car takes care of them.
As for the monster in anything other than a drag race, and ONLY if I put tires on it that it'll never see..
That freakin car would kill the monster.
I always shrug, tell them that it's never been on a dyno, but my " butt dyno" thinks it feels like 350-400 hp.
Today I was bored.
So I went to the key machine, checked out our only M2, and took it out and beat on it....
It feels like the Monster does.
Except...
( the traction control is limiting the tire spin, and the Monster is blowing its tires off, so the monster spinning tires feels like an M2 hooked and cooking.)
What's that tell us?
Rated at 369/343 FWHP/TQ, w/ a 3.43 rear gear and weighing 3450 lbs. it seemed like it was close,
I put the thing in 4th, and matted the pedal,...it seemed similar in how it pulled as well.
As a reference, it felt similar, but I know that if there was a drag radial on the GM, that would probably be where the similarity would end. Conversely, adding timing back into the high boost areas of the map where the monster is in high gear once I start spraying meth will change that as well...
In hindsight, I think I'm pretty close telling people it makes between 350-400 whp now that I've had recent exposure to a decent ride to compare it to...but it's sooo one sided. It's a drag car that I can go around a corner in.
As for the M2... Stopping,....going around a corner,...power transition coming out of that corner is a whole different bag of worms....The ABS is so freakin amazing on a BMW, it's just as much fun to stand on the brake pedal as it is the gas. If you've ever jammed your foot through the floor trying to slow one of these cars so you can make a turn that you've over shot, and the car still turns into the curve,........ If you think " turn" the car does it,....it's no wonder BMW wannabe heros are good when they spend a little track time with one of these cars.
The car takes care of them.
As for the monster in anything other than a drag race, and ONLY if I put tires on it that it'll never see..
That freakin car would kill the monster.
Soo.. On top of all the cam change and piston ring overhaul (or instead of) a suspension redesign/overhaul over the winter?While I've had the car at the few shows that I've been to, the one recurring question that people ask of me is how much power it makes.
I always shrug, tell them that it's never been on a dyno, but my " butt dyno" thinks it feels like 350-400 hp.
Today I was bored.
So I went to the key machine, checked out our only M2, and took it out and beat on it....
It feels like the Monster does.
Except...
( the traction control is limiting the tire spin, and the Monster is blowing its tires off, so the monster spinning tires feels like an M2 hooked and cooking.)
What's that tell us?
Rated at 369/343 FWHP/TQ, w/ a 3.43 rear gear and weighing 3450 lbs. it seemed like it was close,
I put the thing in 4th, and matted the pedal,...it seemed similar in how it pulled as well.
As a reference, it felt similar, but I know that if there was a drag radial on the GM, that would probably be where the similarity would end. Conversely, adding timing back into the high boost areas of the map where the monster is in high gear once I start spraying meth will change that as well...
In hindsight, I think I'm pretty close telling people it makes between 350-400 whp now that I've had recent exposure to a decent ride to compare it to...but it's sooo one sided. It's a drag car that I can go around a corner in.
As for the M2... Stopping,....going around a corner,...power transition coming out of that corner is a whole different bag of worms....The ABS is so freakin amazing on a BMW, it's just as much fun to stand on the brake pedal as it is the gas. If you've ever jammed your foot through the floor trying to slow one of these cars so you can make a turn that you've over shot, and the car still turns into the curve,........ If you think " turn" the car does it,....it's no wonder BMW wannabe heros are good when they spend a little track time with one of these cars.
The car takes care of them.
As for the monster in anything other than a drag race, and ONLY if I put tires on it that it'll never see..
That freakin car would kill the monster.
lol
I always planned to look at the suspension w/regard to handling. The chassis is plenty rigid, but I can always add some more bracing. I was always thinking I'd change the rear 4 link over to a pan hard bar and a torque arm some day. But the voice of reason screams "What for?" and that's about as far as I get.
Regardless of whether I make those changes, nothing is ever gonna make this car stop like that car does unless they make a really good ABS system for the aftermarket, and I upgrade the rotor size 2" on all four corners ( 15/13's).
I'm sure that even if they do, the monies involved to convert would be stupid Larry expensive,..and I'm not gonna spend stupid larry money on a brake system that I'll probably never need.
( are you getting the gist of how likely any of this is ever gonna be?)
You KNOW he will. We all know the project is never FINISHED. Too much is NOT enough!!
While I've had the car at the few shows that I've been to, the one recurring question that people ask of me is how much power it makes.
I always shrug, tell them that it's never been on a dyno, but my " butt dyno" thinks it feels like 350-400 hp.
Today I was bored.
So I went to the key machine, checked out our only M2, and took it out and beat on it....
It feels like the Monster does.
From midway of the doors back, it looks like some kind of Hot Wheels car with those flares. How big are the back tires????
Another question....if you take out the only M2, beat on it, wreck it, does your wife have to kill you or does the manager do that?
They did what most rednecks do when they stuff a too wide rear under a car that isn't wide enough....they flared the quarters. The rear under an M2 is the same rear under a M4 ( which is a wider car) the tires are 265 x35x19's, so in perspective, not that big.
It is a high demand, very short supply car...this one is used. They are selling it for list price.
If I would've wrecked it, there would've been hell to pay.
In retrospect, this is a 4 corner coil over car, w/ reinforced torque boxes, rear sway bar, massive SF connectors, UPR upper/lowers, and poly bushed stock stuff up front with a 1.250" GT front sway bar. It handles decently already.
If I add the stuff to the suspension I'm talking about, I'll be making the panhard bar, the torque arm, and the front lower k member lateral bars, and upper strut tower to firewall brace myself. I'd also probably drop the K member and do all of the stuff outlined in the Mustang Performance Handbook to add some anti dive to the lower front C/As,..raise the rack, and Maybe lengthen the tie rod mount points to affect Ackerman steering...
The only things I'd have to buy would be better front struts, and different springs for the front and rear. And the brakes........either the booster ( stock original fairmont) is not up to the task, needs replacing, or I've got air in the lines...I cannot lock the tires in a panic stop. I've got that to deal with too.
But again,...why would I do this other than to do it? I can't imagine the monster competing in any sportsman level road race competition...I don't even know where, or how I'd get into any of that..
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‘Cause you can’. Best answer I have
And how cool would it be to make all that stuff,dial it in-then flaunt how well it all works at some entry level events.
Road Courses and Auto cross looks like a blast -I’m sure there are some summer events you could sign up for
That would certainly be the easier of the two to accommodate,...but 28 spline Moser axles, and a worn out T Loc Are potential weak links when adding a set of big drag radials enters the picture
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