Progress Thread 2.3L - crank no start issue. Has spark, fuel, good compression.

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

The only "original wiring" left are the pigtails for the following: the injectors, egr, tps, iac, ho2s, ckps, and baro
Rest of the wiring is brand new and either the size recommended by ford or bigger

AeroCoupe · Sep 3, 2023

So I would not ground the battery at the starter bolt but that’s just me. On my Coupe and T-Bird it’s battery to k-member (think frame), k-member to block, and bell housing bolt to firewall.

On the 5.0 injected motors the O2 harness grounds at the firewall. Not sure about the 2.3 cars though. The ground for the ECU is behind the battery on the inner fender so no directly on the battery.

I am pretty sure all the sensors need to ground back into the ECU harness as the voltage on the sensors is 0-5 volts referenced back to the ECU. Not 100% sure here so search this.

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

So I tested the ICM and the CKPS according to https://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford/2.3L/icm-and-crank-sensor-tests-1
Results are as follows:
ICM #1 reads 12.20v when dmm is connected to batt -
ICM #7 reads 12.56v when dmm is connected to batt +
ICM #4 when dmm is to batt - and cranking by hand with koeo gives the following readings 9.44v to 40.6mV to 9.42v to 8.54v to 38.5mV to 8.54v to 9.41v and repeats (turned the engine a little over 1/8 of a turn each turn)
ICM #2 when dmm is to batt - and cranking by hand with koeo gives the following readings 9.34v to 8.49v to 9.32v to 40mV to 37.7mV to 40mV to 9.34v and repeats (turned the engine a little over 1/8 of a turn each turn)

I know it says the last 2 tests results should be on/off 10-12v (good) or no voltage change at all (bad) but it doesn't say anything about readings almost at 10V. Is this a bad ckps, icm, both bad or something else is causing the lower than normal voltage?

CKPS and the crank hub have been replaced, both coils/wiresets/sparkplugs are new, ICM is original unit that came on the engine.

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

AeroCoupe said:
So I would not ground the battery at the starter bolt but that’s just me. On my Coupe and T-Bird it’s battery to k-member (think frame), k-member to block, and bell housing bolt to firewall.

On the 5.0 injected motors the O2 harness grounds at the firewall. Not sure about the 2.3 cars though. The ground for the ECU is behind the battery on the inner fender so no directly on the battery.

I am pretty sure all the sensors need to ground back into the ECU harness as the voltage on the sensors is 0-5 volts referenced back to the ECU. Not 100% sure here so search this.

The original harness had the batt - cable going to the starter bolt. I will try your recommended path. I don't really have a firewall so it'll have to be to frame for the bell housing.

Unfortunately I don't have an inner fender so my choices are directly to battery - or to the frame right above battery. I will switch it over to the frame and see what happens.

When you say ground back into ecu harness are you referring to wire 20, 40, or 60? I will see what I can come up with on my journey through the internet. Thanks for the help!

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

Checked the wiring diagrams from ford:

#40/#60/maf/ho2s all connect together and go to the battery - terminal (tried to get the best pic I could of it)

Heading back to the garage in a few to reroute the - batt cable and add the bell housing to frame

Will post results when finished!

AeroCoupe · Sep 3, 2023

Man I am stumped and without being there I am not going to be much more help. Holy crap an new ICM isn't cheap ($150 on RockAuto) so I would try to find a way to test that mofo out.

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

No worries I appreciate all the help you have given!

I know,. Only way I've found to test the ICM is the test/results I posted above. The only getting 9v instead of 10-12V is the reason it hasn't been eliminated as the cause of the problem but I can't find a reason why it's not getting the 10-12V. Hence possible bad ICM.

Honestly in my mind, it's either the alternator(2g), ICM, or both (my luck). I want to get a 3g if I'm replacing the alternator (tested good @ 2 autozones and ran multiple times at both putting out 15.1V, but has quite a bit of corrosion and something loose clunking around inside). Of course both of those are expensive and testing "good" which is why I haven't pulled the trigger and replaced them.

I rerouted the batt - cable to the frame, added one from the bell house to frame and cleaned all the spark plugs. It cranks a little better now, the noises out of the tailpipe are quite a bit louder/powerful but it doesn't start now even when holding the key. The battery was a little low so I have it charging but.... my dumbass closed my garage with the only remote I had inside.

Trying to find maintenance to see if they can open it for me but I'm pretty sure they're gone for the day and they may have tomorrow off since it's labor day so I'm not sure when I'll be able to get back to diagnostics lol.

Not sure if anyone's got an answer for this but is it normal to get 12V at all 6 of the coil wires when back probing and the dmm is hooked up to the batt -? I want to say that's not right but I can't find anything to support my hunch.

thanks again @AeroCoupe you have been awesome

AeroCoupe · Sep 3, 2023

I’ll keep thinking on it. Have you traced the wires off the coil pack in the wiring diagrams? Here is a link to installing g a 3g on a 2.3 that I posted earlier in the week.

MTB Madness - Mustang! (Alternator Upgrade)

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

Yeah, they go to where they're supposed to ICM 8-11

Thanks for the link that will come in handy

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

So I was checking out the link you posted and paperformance.com, I noticed they offer a different style fender mounted starter solenoid than what is currently on my vehicle. Mine has the posts coming out of the top of the solenoid while these are out of the side. Do I need to change mine to this style or does it not matter as long as the solenoid works?

AeroCoupe · Sep 3, 2023

what does yours look like?

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

This is the one I have installed currently

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

This is the one they have

AeroCoupe · Sep 3, 2023

The one you have is the 2.3L stock style and should be just fine. It just makes the starter work and a convenient place to add wires that need 12V+ battery.

joystang · Sep 3, 2023

Good to know, thanks!

limp · Sep 4, 2023

joystang said:
No worries I appreciate all the help you have given!

I know,. Only way I've found to test the ICM is the test/results I posted above. The only getting 9v instead of 10-12V is the reason it hasn't been eliminated as the cause of the problem but I can't find a reason why it's not getting the 10-12V. Hence possible bad ICM.

Honestly in my mind, it's either the alternator(2g), ICM, or both (my luck). I want to get a 3g if I'm replacing the alternator (tested good @ 2 autozones and ran multiple times at both putting out 15.1V, but has quite a bit of corrosion and something loose clunking around inside). Of course both of those are expensive and testing "good" which is why I haven't pulled the trigger and replaced them.

I rerouted the batt - cable to the frame, added one from the bell house to frame and cleaned all the spark plugs. It cranks a little better now, the noises out of the tailpipe are quite a bit louder/powerful but it doesn't start now even when holding the key. The battery was a little low so I have it charging but.... my dumbass closed my garage with the only remote I had inside.

Trying to find maintenance to see if they can open it for me but I'm pretty sure they're gone for the day and they may have tomorrow off since it's labor day so I'm not sure when I'll be able to get back to diagnostics lol.

Not sure if anyone's got an answer for this but is it normal to get 12V at all 6 of the coil wires when back probing and the dmm is hooked up to the batt -? I want to say that's not right but I can't find anything to support my hunch.

thanks again @AeroCoupe you have been awesome

This caught my eye... Isn't 15.1 volts TOO high from your alternator? And things " clunking" around??
Years ago a mechanic friend of mine was having a problem with the new stereo he had installed.. It kept shutting off. Stereo installer told him it was his alternator.. My Friend was and is a GREAT mechanic and thought the stereo guy was way off as his alternator tested fine...
He replaced the alternator after giving up basically and everything worked fine after a new alternator was installed... I remember the local alt and starter rebuild shop took his old one apart and there was a short or something in it.....
Just saying........

joystang · Sep 4, 2023

Yeah that's the next replacement. I just have to wait till Friday when I get paid (plus about a week for it to arrive). I knew it could be an issue (potentially the ICM as well) plus I did want to make the upgrade from 2g to 3g anyways. I just wanted to rule out as much of the rest of the engine/electrical as I could before I started throwing money away buying parts I hope would fix it it without verifying there weren't other more obvious problems that needed to be addressed. Thanks for sharing, it's good to know! I will let you guys know what happens!

Now it's time to track down maintenance and hopefully get them to open my garage so I can get my remote!

joystang · Sep 4, 2023

@AeroCoupe when you converted your rack to manual on your 2.3 how'd you run the belt? That's one of the things stopping me from converting. Also you say the ranger brackets for the 3g alternator are just temporary, what's the permanent going to be?

joystang · Sep 10, 2023

Got the new alternator coming, it should be here Wednesday. Needed something to do and wanted to figure out what was clunking in the old alternator, so I took it apart. Didn't find anything loose or moving irregular, just a few leaves lol. Definitely has seen better days and glad I'm replacing it. Couldn't figure out how to get the factory incandescent bulb to work in my dash without looking completely bizarre, but I found a small incandescent bulb and a 500ohm resistor. They should be here Thursday so I'm going to try it with the led first and if it's not working I'll try switching it over.

joystang · Sep 14, 2023

Alternator arrived a day late but better than never. Definitely going to have to grind to get it to fit, won't be able to get to that till this weekend probably. Started working on the wiring, just want to confirm I'm understanding the write up correctly. The yellow wire in the picture goes to the battery terminal on the fender starter relay as well as the big red one with the fuse, the green is the one to the battery light and needs the 500 ohm resistor, and the white to the single square connector? Thanks!

Progress Thread 2.3L - crank no start issue. Has spark, fuel, good compression.

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lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

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lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

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lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

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lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

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lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

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wrap a little cheese around it and its a done

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