351 Windsor

[rauch]

So, I'm new to the Ford Scene and have a question regarding the 351.

I'm currently looking at a 69 Cougar with a 351W. The motor cost was approximately $6,000. It was built by I believe JE Engines, or something along those lines. Regardless, it is putting out 610HP on a dyno. The guy mentioned something along the lines of it not running on pump gas. Being naturally aspirated, even with high compression, it should still be able to run on pump gas, am I wrong?

I don't see where it would NEED to be ran on race gas.

Is there anything I'm missing on required octane levels? Seeing 610HP should still hypothetically streetable. I'm going to find more information on the specs, but figured I'd get some initial opinions until I speak with the guy tomorrow.

Granted, I've seen 600+ HP Camaro's run standard 93-Octane. I'm unsure if I'm overlooking any major factors.

Than again, old school guys can tend to sometimes over complicate things when not necessary.

I'm planning on using her as an occasional racer and show car. Yet, I would think if driven carefully could be a frequent driver on the nicer days.

The guy claims at 420HP it couldn't hook up and would go sideways in third. Do I doubt that? No, but I feel if driven carefully and not like an ******* it could be a good occasional driver.

Let me know what you guys think!

 

[woodsnake]

You should come over to "mercurycougar.net"

 

[mtaqua]

do you have any info on the motor? octane requirement has to do with compression and your valve timing. If it is requiring a higher octane and you run pump gas, you can quickly break things. You don't NEED to run a higher octane, but if it is required you will need to buy a new motor if you don't run it. There are ways around it like meth/water injection.

Anything is street-able, just depends on what you mind putting up with.

Good luck.

 

[rauch]

You should come over to "mercurycougar.net"

Will do! I was looking for a specific forum like that but the ones I happened to find were dead. I was even looking up 351W Forums!

 

[jerry S]

So, I'm new to the Ford Scene and have a question regarding the 351.

I'm currently looking at a 69 Cougar with a 351W. The motor cost was approximately $6,000. It was built by I believe JE Engines, or something along those lines. Regardless, it is putting out 610HP on a dyno. The guy mentioned something along the lines of it not running on pump gas. Being naturally aspirated, even with high compression, it should still be able to run on pump gas, am I wrong?

I don't see where it would NEED to be ran on race gas.

Is there anything I'm missing on required octane levels? Seeing 610HP should still hypothetically streetable. I'm going to find more information on the specs, but figured I'd get some initial opinions until I speak with the guy tomorrow.

Granted, I've seen 600+ HP Camaro's run standard 93-Octane. I'm unsure if I'm overlooking any major factors.

Than again, old school guys can tend to sometimes over complicate things when not necessary.

I'm planning on using her as an occasional racer and show car. Yet, I would think if driven carefully could be a frequent driver on the nicer days.

The guy claims at 420HP it couldn't hook up and would go sideways in third. Do I doubt that? No, but I feel if driven carefully and not like an ******* it could be a good occasional driver.

Let me know what you guys think!

you should find out what the cam specs are and what the CR is. you might be able to get by ok with 12:1 CR with a monster cam, 98 octane, and aluminum heads. I am running 11:1 CR with no problems, but a 610 hp 351W is either a 408 stroker with a high CR or a non-stroked 351W with a very high CR (I am thinking 13:1 CR), something like a NASCAR racing engine. If that engine has a very high CR, you cannot run that car on the street without race gas. Otherwise, ka-BOOM!

 

[blown65]

Well, if you have E85 local you could convert and run that instead of race gas.

351W with 610hp probably has some compression to it so its needing something more than 92 octane.

Do a compression test on the motor.

 

[Hack]

So, I'm new to the Ford Scene and have a question regarding the 351.

I'm currently looking at a 69 Cougar with a 351W. The motor cost was approximately $6,000. It was built by I believe JE Engines, or something along those lines. Regardless, it is putting out 610HP on a dyno. The guy mentioned something along the lines of it not running on pump gas. Being naturally aspirated, even with high compression, it should still be able to run on pump gas, am I wrong?

I don't see where it would NEED to be ran on race gas.

Is there anything I'm missing on required octane levels? Seeing 610HP should still hypothetically streetable. I'm going to find more information on the specs, but figured I'd get some initial opinions until I speak with the guy tomorrow.

Granted, I've seen 600+ HP Camaro's run standard 93-Octane. I'm unsure if I'm overlooking any major factors.

Than again, old school guys can tend to sometimes over complicate things when not necessary.

I'm planning on using her as an occasional racer and show car. Yet, I would think if driven carefully could be a frequent driver on the nicer days.

The guy claims at 420HP it couldn't hook up and would go sideways in third. Do I doubt that? No, but I feel if driven carefully and not like an ******* it could be a good occasional driver.

Let me know what you guys think!

I think that if it were a Chivy motor in a Camaro you could probably run 87 octane and make 800 hp. Since it's a Ford motor and I'm an old school guy, it's more complicated than that in my mind.

Good luck.

 

[dodgestang]

Where did the 420hp come from? So which is it 600 or 420? Or did he add a NOS shot, a K&N, and just add all the numbers up

Maybe I don't know how to drive, I've never made my 65 mustang light up the rear tires in 3rd at highway speed unless I was on ice...and I have 400 at the rear tire. Is it sitting on 225 60 15

My money is on:

"Builder told me it would make like 600 HP on a dyno and would need race gas"

But has never been on one (dyno)
Has 12:1 compression
Stock iron heads
Has never been to the track to have 1/4 time slip (because it would be a 10 second car with 600 HP)

Keep in mind, 6k isn't a whole lot of money to PAY a builder to make an engine....for 6k in parts you might be able to assemble everything needed...but still need to pay for labor.

Got photos?
Got the dyno sheet?

 

[331efiblue66]

$6k is nothing, I have over that in my 331 just in parts & machine work, & I am going to do the assembly work myself...and I was told by jim @ fordstrokers it would be on the north side of 420hp....DEFINATELY get a hard copy of a spec sheet.

 

[blown65]

Maybe I don't know how to drive, I've never made my 65 mustang light up the rear tires in 3rd at highway speed unless I was on ice...and I have 400 at the rear tire. Is it sitting on 225 60 15

lol, exactly. My car runs 9's, over 600hp and it stays hooked in 3rd no problem on the street. Suspension is key. 275/50 DR's.

 

[rauch]

That's what I figured.

The guy's been busy lately and I've been finishing up some work on my Camaro, so I haven't had a chance to speak with him.

But overall, my thoughts are 610HP for $6000 seems quite a bit low. Either they numbers are off, he's BS'ing, or MAYBE they're engine dyno numbers.

I'm definitely going to try to get some detailed information. I doubt the guy is intentionally lying. Plus, he lives a few houses down so I could always get revenge if needed.

The only downfall is I'd have to install the tranny and pickup a new converter and install them. No big deal though. While taking a closer look at it earlier, I noticed some bubbling on the rear quarter, but I can't expect it to be perfect.

 

[StangDreamin']

I'll second woodsnake's suggestion regarding mercurycougar.net; good place for honest help and talk. Get as much information as you can on your Windsor; and somebody over there can help you sort it out. Just don't be bummed if somebody calls "Bull" on the engine builder's claims; the guys over there will help you out with the good and the bad of your car. Pretty much like around here; but there's no reluctance to "call a spade a spade" and then tell you how to fix it.

woody; do I "remember wrong", or did a reference to "JE Engines" come up on mc.net a while back?

 

[woodsnake]

"
woody; do I "remember wrong", or did a reference to "JE Engines" come up on mc.net a while back? "

Not that I recall....

 

[StangDreamin']

Okay, that's good; from what I thought I remembered. I Googled it, and got a bunch of references to a Mazda 'engine code'; sort of like it was the "Windsor" of the Mazda world.