5.0 vs 4.6
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5spd GT said:That is funny. So you compare the 1/8th mile isntead of the quarter mile. The 4l60e's run upwards of 97-98mph. Not a 5spd 5.0L on average nor a auto for sure.
So what exactly is a beat down on a 4.6L when the 4.6L wins. Lets just say for grins that the 5.0L's win, so 1,2, or 3 mph is a "beatdown"...
You are now losing credibility speed
I compare it because thats what we have here, 1/8 mile tracks but I have seen enough run in person on the street. On the street consists of more than a couple random people racing without looking at the facts. Im a little deeper into the street scene than the average "street racer" aka sunday driver who runs into random people on the street and races through one gear and claims a win.
4L60E? Well for the 4.6 representer you sure dont know your transmissions, as a 4L60E sits behind a GM engine, in a GM car because it's a GM transmission. Sure a automatic LT1 will run 97-98 MPH. Then again so will a well driven 5.0 or faster.
Speeds8erM-1 said:
That is funny. A driver and passenger seat have weight. A console has weight. Etc, etc...not a good point. You were trying to make it seem "so streetable" or something with the "radio" post.
I don't have smog either, but it is an accessory loss on the engine. Quit playing the game, your losing
Or is that the stock 5.0L I am a perfectly smart enough person to realize what is really picked up and what is not. I gained 3mph with no changes once except an alternator. Two weeks in between the last track time without shorties. Don't recall weather, but it doesn't vary much here unless it is raining, then the track is closed. I felt a slight sotp from them...not 1.5mph worth.
Speeds8erM-1 said:I compare it because thats what we have here, 1/8 mile tracks but I have seen enough run in person on the street. On the street consists of more than a couple random people racing without looking at the facts. Im a little deeper into the street scene than the average "street racer" aka sunday driver who runs into random people on the street and races through one gear and claims a win.
4L60E? Well for the 4.6 representer you sure dont know your transmissions, as a 4L60E sits behind a GM engine, in a GM car because it's a GM transmission. Sure a automatic LT1 will run 97-98 MPH. Then again so will a well driven 5.0 or faster.
I'm assuming your not talking about me being the "sunday" racer...
4r70w is what I meant...I did that the other day on the corral
5spd GT said:That is funny. A driver and passenger seat have weight. A console has weight. Etc, etc...not a good point. You were trying to make it seem "so streetable" or something with the "radio" post.
I don't have smog either, but it is an accessory loss on the engine. Quit playing the game, your losing
I am a perfectly smart enough person to realize what is really picked up and what is not. I gained 3mph with no changes once except an alternator. Two weeks in between the last track time without shorties. Don't recall weather, but it doesn't vary much here unless it is raining, then the track is closed. I felt a slight sotp from them...not 1.5mph worth.
YOU implied the car was gutted or something with your "does it have accesories comment", nope we pulled over on the side of the road, pulled the belt off and iced the intake all while pulling the seats out and porting the heads while waiting right before the race with that 03 GT, the car is full everything with 3.08 gears and a clutch fan. 4.6's dont have an accessory loss from the smog stock so your point is moot.
So you claim shorty headers give 15-20 rwhp correct? Credability what?
Speeds8erM-1 said:Oh and an automatic 99-04 GT isnt gonna make up the 2-4 tenths and 1-3 MPH in the 1/8 up in the 1/8 unless the 5.0 guy's car is a pos or he is sir douchebag driver the first.
I'm sorry speeds, but a stock 99+ 4.6L auto is not going to run 2-4 tenths and 1-3mph slower in the 1/8th than a stock 5.0L. That is a bit of stretching...kind of like Ford did with the 4.9L, ooppss I mean almight 5.0L
5spd GT said:I'm sorry speeds, but a stock 99+ 4.6L auto is not going to run 2-4 tenths and 1-3mph slower in the 1/8th than a stock 5.0L. That is a bit of stretching...kind of like Ford did with the 4.9L, ooppss I mean almight 5.0L
Im all for the 4.6 cars but I know what a well driven in decent shape 5.0 can do. I have seen plenty of modded ones get wiped out by my friend's or by my own bolton cars. It happens. I also know when an ignorant oldschool 5.0 guy is gonna catch the beat down from the 4.6 because he thinks they are slower from riding in them.
I can play both sides of the fence. 
Speeds8erM-1 said:YOU implied the car was gutted or something with your "does it have accesories comment", nope we pulled over on the side of the road, pulled the belt off and iced the intake all while pulling the seats out and porting the heads while waiting right before the race with that 03 GT, the car is full everything with 3.08 gears and a clutch fan. 4.6's dont have an accessory loss from the smog stock so your point is moot.
So you claim shorty headers give 15-20 rwhp correct? Credability what?
That is funny. I did not imply that it was gutted. A car without powersteering or a/c is not gutted, just less accessories that help them at the track. You try to twist, but I make it straight. Keep trying...
No my point is not lost, the 4.6L didn't "delete" an accessory...the 5.0L did. Advantage: 5.0L.
Lol, when did I say I gained 15-20rwhp? Just said that is what I gained...I would have "felt" 15-20rwhp...
Speeds8erM-1 said:Im all for the 4.6 cars but I know what a well driven in decent shape 5.0 can do. I have seen plenty of modded ones get wiped out by my friend's or by my own bolton cars. It happens. I also know when an ignorant oldschool 5.0 guy is gonna catch the beat down from the 4.6 because he thinks they are slower from riding in them.
I agree, driver has a lot to do with it.
So what was the exact difference between the 5.0L and the 4.6L. As you should know, E.T. is not worth as much as mph to me. The 60ft difference there has very little difference on the mph...
So would you say a full drag suspension stock 5.0L that runs mid-12's at 98mph is faster than a h/c/i car that runs low 13's at 110mph? I say the latter is a "faster" car...
IMO anything that traps less than 120mph is not "fast"...but you get my point...
5spd GT said:
I thought that is what you were implying, just the impression I got. Deleting the smog doesnt count for the 5.0 even though the 4.6 doesnt have it driven off of the engine? Just looks like an easy mod to even the playing field to me, oh wait, didnt need to even it, the 4.6 car in the video lost even with it's electric fan and non belt driven smog.
I figured with it's horrible heads, small cam, small maf compared to the 4.6, the 4.6 wouldnt need yet another easily reversed advantage. To gain 1.5 MPH in the 1/8 takes a good 15-20 rwhp gain, not gonna happen with headers on a stocker 5.0. These arent LS1's ya know.
Speeds8erM-1 said:I thought that is what you were implying, just the impression I got. Deleting the smog doesnt count for the 5.0 even though the 4.6 doesnt have it driven off of the engine? Just looks like an easy mod to even the playing field to me, oh wait, didnt need to even it, the 4.6 car in the video lost even with it's electric fan and non belt driven smog.
To gain 1.5 MPH in the 1/8 takes a good 15-20 rwhp gain, not gonna happen with headers on a stocker 5.0. These arent LS1's ya know.
Have you seen the belt routing and accessries that the belt wraps around on the 4.6L. It is a bit more complicated
More drag...Yes it does count. Accessory loss equates to more power...
I never said that the header swapped gained me 1.5mph all by their lonesome. Two weeks difference, headers only difference. I gained 1.5mph. Just stating what happened...
Ls1's with longtubes, yum!
Don't compare the actualy engine dynamics...two different engines. Two different generations. They only get better, case in point...the 4.6L is very good at effciency...the stock 5.0L has it's faults but more cubes. When swapping on the "bigger" parts, you will see bigger gains. yet people see this as it being "restricted" and not being "less efficient"...they say the stock parts are so bad...no, they do what they do, just not as efficient.
Some blame the 4.6L "little gains" on bolt-ons, and heads/cam and make it seem as the 4.6L "sucks" because of this...nope.
the 03gt driver in the vid was powershifting. u can also notice the front jump forward during shifts as well. so it was no driver error that he was back there. we ran till 110-115mph.
the other 03 gt with all the boltons,plenum and tune went a 1.86 [email protected]. my car went a 1.96 [email protected]. if my 60ft was a 1.86 i would be in the 8.30 on that pass.
coupester on the corral has ran a 8.17 at 82.6 with a stock longblock(intake aswell)and all the boltons.
i also beat an 01 gt several times.it was an auto with a gear, a muffler, and pulleys. beat him before i had the cobra intake.
the other 03 gt with all the boltons,plenum and tune went a 1.86 [email protected]. my car went a 1.96 [email protected]. if my 60ft was a 1.86 i would be in the 8.30 on that pass.
coupester on the corral has ran a 8.17 at 82.6 with a stock longblock(intake aswell)and all the boltons.
i also beat an 01 gt several times.it was an auto with a gear, a muffler, and pulleys. beat him before i had the cobra intake.
5spd GT said:
Im all for the MPH myself, as alot of racing happens from rolls these days and a car that can actually pass somebody on the highway. The 03 GT (not the one in the video) and the 93 Notch differences go as follows.
03 GT has a JLT Ram Air, Prochamber, Magnaflow Catback, Steeda UD Pulleys, Accufab 70mm Plenum & TB, 3.73's, Nitto 275/45/17 DR's, Diablo Predator Programmer with RWTD Dyno Tune and I belive the front sway bar is off also, HPM SFC's (that he got from the 93 Notch owner lol) He has run a best of [email protected] MPH with a 1.86 60 ft, best mph is 82.86.
The 93 Notch has Cobra Intake & 65mm TB, Fram Airhog Filter in stock airbox, Mac Unequal Length Shorty 1 5/8 Headers, Prochamber, Pro Dumps, Mac Aluminum UD Pulleys, 3.08's, Bumped Timing, FMS Alum DS, AFPR (not really played with, replacement for dying stock), 3.08's, Nitto 245/50/16 DRs, No Front Sway Bar and 5.0 Resto SFC's. He has run a best of [email protected] MPH with a 1.96 60 ft, his best 60 ft is 1.95 but I think he missed third on that run.
I know this much because I keep up with the track times list for our local group and Im friend's with both.
The GT has an actual dyno tune, the 5.0 just has the timing bumped and hasnt really experimented with it alot. They both have stock suspension other than no front sway bar and SFC's. The 5.0 has headers and an alum ds. the GT has 60 ft better and got a better et. Their best ET has a better MPH for the notch but their highest MPH's the GT is ahead. The GT has around 40000 miles and is blown up now (nitrousssssss) and the 5.0 has around 135000 on it or so.
matt93notch said:
The bias driver steps in by request
Powershifting eh? A properly placed powershift at those mph's will not cause the car to lurch, that would be a slower powershift to cause that...because it is allowing the car to rebound back in between shifts (dead time)...the driver isn't beating the suspension.
5spd GT said:Have you seen the belt routing and accessries that the belt wraps around on the 4.6L. It is a bit more complicated
Yes it does count. Accessory loss equates to more power...
I never said that the header swapped gained me 1.5mph all by their lonesome. Two weeks difference, headers only difference. I gained 1.5mph. Just stating what happened...
Ls1's with longtubes, yum!
Don't compare the actualy engine dynamics...two different engines. Two different generations. They only get better, case in point...the 4.6L is very good at effciency...the stock 5.0L has it's faults but more cubes. When swapping on the "bigger" parts, you will see bigger gains. yet people see this as it being "restricted" and not being "less efficient"...they say the stock parts are so bad...no, they do what they do, just not as efficient.
Some blame the 4.6L "little gains" on bolt-ons, and heads/cam and make it seem as the 4.6L "sucks" because of this...nope.
To be fair, the Cobra intake and 65mm TB is the same stuff that comes stock on an Explorer for the most part, not to mention the GT40P heads that could be swapped or a whole Explorer Engine and still be a stock 5.0 and that would put the 5.0 even further ahead. Newer stuff, like the 4.6 stuff is. Thats an even better comparison, considering the E7 headed cars are giving the 4.6 hell it seems. Then again you could do the same with the Cobra stuff and thats just a whole different ballgame.
5spd GT said:The bias driver steps in by request
Powershifting eh? A properly placed powershift at those mph's will not cause the car to lurch, that would be a slower powershift to cause that...because it is allowing the car to rebound back in between shifts (dead time)...the driver isn't beating the suspension.
Basically what he is saying is the 03 GT dude was shifting his nuts off. He actually was, belt squeeling and all.
The belt wrap on a 4.6 doesnt cause as much drag as the clutch fan on a 5.0, yet the 5.0 seems to still be right there eh?
Speeds8erM-1 said:
Now it is starting to add up, I knew it. So we didn't know about the aluminum driveshaft, didn't know about the aluminum part of the u/d's, bumped timing, sfc's, dumps (not full tailpipes but negated by sfc's), the "no front sway bar"...and fp could be messed with (i'm not to worried about it)...
Yes, the "roll racing" is what I get at, a more common form of racing due to the way highways are built. Cars always moving
There isn't much to dyno tuning a 5.0L speeds...timing and fuel pressure is about it. The computers are more forgiving...
It is interesting...the 4.6L around here "run quicker" than that...weird...
Curious, what shot was it taking with the nitrous oxide? I figured since it had a tune "n/a"...why not one with the nitrous oxide? You'd think
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