5.0 vs 4.6

Speeds8erM-1 · Apr 18, 2006

http://media.putfile.com/SS-vsadot-TA--Notch-vsadot-GT

The second race on that video is the same notch before the intake, tb and with the front sway bar on vs an 03 GT with a filter. It's a mugging!

Not to mention thats not even a 87-88 Speed Density car which tends to be faster.

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

Speeds8erM-1 said:
Basically what he is saying is the 03 GT dude was shifting his nuts off. He actually was, belt squeeling and all.

The belt wrap on a 4.6 doesnt cause as much drag as the clutch fan on a 5.0, yet the 5.0 seems to still be right there eh?

Just go look at the 4.6L under the hood, compare it to your "smogless" 5.0L. I can right now in my own yard. I might do it for giggles later...

He was shifting anything, if the car is lurching...not a good sign of real powershifting...it should be quick and not lose any edge...no unloading of the suspension should occur.

matt93notch · Apr 18, 2006

i didnt say he did the quickest smoothest powershifts but he sure told me he was powershifting

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

Speeds8erM-1 said:
To be fair, the Cobra intake and 65mm TB is the same stuff that comes stock on an Explorer for the most part, not to mention the GT40P heads that could be swapped or a whole Explorer Engine and still be a stock 5.0 and that would put the 5.0 even further ahead. Newer stuff, like the 4.6 stuff is. Thats an even better comparison, considering the E7 headed cars are giving the 4.6 hell it seems. Then again you could do the same with the Cobra stuff and thats just a whole different ballgame.

No really, that is funny! Now we are talking about swapping different engines to make it a "more of an advantage"...

stock for stock...4.6L wins in every performance category. Straight line, cornering, braking...etc...etc...not to mention, better fuel mileage, more efficient, smoother, etc...etc...

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

matt93notch said:
i didnt say he did the quickest smoothest powershifts but he sure told me he was powershifting

Well what do you think people assume when powershifting is said They assume "wow, he must have been shifting good and hard, so that isn't an issue on driver"...

Speeds8erM-1 · Apr 18, 2006

5spd GT said:
Now it is starting to add up, I knew it. So we didn't know about the aluminum driveshaft, didn't know about the aluminum part of the u/d's, bumped timing, sfc's, dumps (not full tailpipes but negated by sfc's), the "no front sway bar"...and fp could be messed with (i'm not to worried about it)...

Yes, the "roll racing" is what I get at, a more common form of racing due to the way highways are built. Cars always moving

There isn't much to dyno tuning a 5.0L speeds...timing and fuel pressure is about it. The computers are more forgiving...

It is interesting...the 4.6L around here "run quicker" than that...weird...

Curious, what shot was it taking with the nitrous oxide? I figured since it had a tune "n/a"...why not one with the nitrous oxide? You'd think

Well if you wanna get more specific, the car has aluminum pulleys but has a bone stock alternator pulley. Bumped timing is a mod that can be done for free, sucks for you that you cant turn a dist stock on the ole fancy 4.6. You CAN dyno tune a 5.0 with a chip and it will gain, how much does vary but hey it's not as tuned as that 4.6 and still right there with it, even 10 years older. The Notch hasnt been to the dyno and tried anything with the timing or fuel pressure, hasnt tried to play with it at the track either, who knows, might even be more left in it? Not any left in that GT though. Tail pipes would probably make the notch faster, it's possible and an argured point, be interesting to see? No front sway bar for each, Im pretty sure on the GT anyway.

The 03 GT had a NX 100 Shot, it had a bottle tune too. It blew n/a one night after alot of bottles and he had put it on the rev limiter for 13 seconds one day. Stock 5.0 block sucks but stock 4.6 rods suck also.

Speeds8erM-1 · Apr 18, 2006

5spd GT said:
No really, that is funny! Now we are talking about swapping different engines to make it a "more of an advantage"...

stock for stock...4.6L wins in every performance category. Straight line, cornering, braking...etc...etc...not to mention, better fuel mileage, more efficient, smoother, etc...etc...

You dont have to swap engines and last time I checked the subject to this thread was 4.6 vs 5.0? Stock grandma Explorer heads scare you that much?

I didnt know engines cornered and braked? All this time we had been racing cars when we could have been out riding on engines. Last time I checked on the video there wasnt an autocross track and we werent at Motor Trend racing 60-0. Of course you could always build both cars but then again we know which is faster ultimately when going full on also.

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

Speeds8erM-1 said:
Well if you wanna get more specific, the car has aluminum pulleys but has a bone stock alternator pulley. Bumped timing is a mod that can be done for free, sucks for you that you cant turn a dist stock on the ole fancy 4.6. You CAN dyno tune a 5.0 with a chip and it will gain, how much does vary but hey it's not as tuned as that 4.6 and still right there with it, even 10 years older. The Notch hasnt been to the dyno and tried anything with the timing or fuel pressure, hasnt tried to play with it at the track either, who knows, might even be more left in it? Not any left in that GT though. Tail pipes would probably make the notch faster, it's possible and an argured point, be interesting to see? No front sway bar for each, Im pretty sure on the GT anyway.

The 03 GT had a NX 100 Shot, it had a bottle tune too. It blew n/a one night after alot of bottles and he had put it on the rev limiter for 13 seconds one day. Stock 5.0 block sucks but stock 4.6 rods suck also.

Sorry, just because one has a dyno tune doesn't mean "that is it"...depends on dyno tune, what it was setup to do, conditions of the day, etc...how much time was spent, how much money was spent, etc...

Lighter weight is going to help from a roll, and since he is spinning higher rpms (from a roll race), the tailpipes aren't going to help...sorry.

"pretty sure" on the gt huh...

A 5.0L may or may not gain with a chip tune, same with the 4.6L. The 5.0L's are more forgiving...they adapt much better.

The age thing is funny, it is the engine, tranny and active suspension that get the car doing what it does...not the age of the body, seats, radio, plastic pieces, bugs, etc...

Speeds8erM-1 · Apr 18, 2006

5spd GT said:
Just go look at the 4.6L under the hood, compare it to your "smogless" 5.0L. I can right now in my own yard. I might do it for giggles later...

He was shifting anything, if the car is lurching...not a good sign of real powershifting...it should be quick and not lose any edge...no unloading of the suspension should occur.

Swap drivers and that GT would have still lost.

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

Speeds8erM-1 said:
You dont have to swap engines and last time I checked the subject to this thread was 4.6 vs 5.0? Stock grandma Explorer heads scare you that much?

I didnt know engines cornered and braked? All this time we had been racing cars when we could have been out riding on engines. Last time I checked on the video there wasnt an autocross track and we werent at Motor Trend racing 60-0. Of course you could always build both cars but then again we know which is faster ultimately when going full on also.

Nope, no scare. Just another advantage. Well lets retrofit some DOHC heads on the SOHC...it can be done. It has been done. You are swapping engine parts...the fox 5.0L blocks are not exactly the same as the explorer base, very similar, slight differences.

Making a point, as tech prevails (4.6L) the predecessor will become more of a legend and less of a performer when compared to "in their day"...

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

Speeds8erM-1 said:
Swap drivers and that GT would have still lost.

Very possible, but that much of a difference would have changed...that is the whole point I have been making...now your catching on!

4.6L's (as shown by averages) rods will last longer than a stock 5.0L's block. Cracking a block has many more repercusions than "throwing a rod"...

Speeds8erM-1 · Apr 18, 2006

5spd GT said:
Sorry, just because one has a dyno tune doesn't mean "that is it"...depends on dyno tune, what it was setup to do, conditions of the day, etc...how much time was spent, how much money was spent, etc...

Lighter weight is going to help from a roll, and since he is spinning higher rpms (from a roll race), the tailpipes aren't going to help...sorry.

"pretty sure" on the gt huh...

A 5.0L may or may not gain with a chip tune, same with the 4.6L. The 5.0L's are more forgiving...they adapt much better.

The age thing is funny, it is the engine, tranny and active suspension that get the car doing what it does...not the age of the body, seats, radio, plastic pieces, bugs, etc...

It was tuned at RWTD and was tuned to make the most power it could n/a on 93 octane. I would think more power (possibly) from tailpipes would make more a difference in a roll race than 10 pounds. Power matters more from a roll than weight does in comparison to a stomp since that whole physics thing is multipled when trying to get a car going from a stop.

The 4.6 has been tuned to the max for it's combo, the 5.0 hasnt. Not 100% on the sway bar, doesnt matter anyway since he 60 ft'd a full tenth better but only ran 4 hundredths faster and ran slower MPH on his best run also.

The age thing was to point out it's OLD technology. We could always compare a 96-98 GT to the older 5.0 and the bring the explorer stuff up to the GT 2v guys.

Speeds8erM-1 · Apr 18, 2006

5spd GT said:
Nope, no scare. Just another advantage. Well lets retrofit some DOHC heads on the SOHC...it can be done. It has been done. You are swapping engine parts...the fox 5.0L blocks are not exactly the same as the explorer base, very similar, slight differences.

Making a point, as tech prevails (4.6L) the predecessor will become more of a legend and less of a performer when compared to "in their day"...

The Explorer engine is alot closer to a 5.0 in a Mustang than the DOHC stuff is to the SOHC stuff in the GT. 2v cars are the example here and so far they arent winning by as much as you think and often times losing.

Speeds8erM-1 · Apr 18, 2006

5spd GT said:
Very possible, but that much of a difference would have changed...that is the whole point I have been making...now your catching on!

4.6L's (as shown by averages) rods will last longer than a stock 5.0L's block. Cracking a block has many more repercusions than "throwing a rod"...

Anything over 400 rwhp = time bomb 4.6 rods. All the blower guys worry with theirs. 5.0 block sucks compared to the 4.6 block but the 4.6 rods suck. We can also discuss pistons too. BarryD on TurboMustangs.com's stock 93 hyperutectic shortblock split at 620 rwhp but the pistons were FINE. Throwing a rod is as bad as splitting the block because it kills the block also. Dead rod usually takes almost everything with it, where as you can split the block in a 5.0 and still save the (pointless) rotating assembley SOMETIMES.

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

Speeds8erM-1 said:
It was tuned at RWTD and was tuned to make the most power it could n/a on 93 octane. I would think more power (possibly) from tailpipes would make more a difference in a roll race than 10 pounds. Power matters more from a roll than weight does in comparison to a stomp since that whole physics thing is multipled when trying to get a car going from a stop.

The 4.6 has been tuned to the max for it's combo, the 5.0 hasnt. Not 100% on the sway bar, doesnt matter anyway since he 60 ft'd a full tenth better but only ran 4 hundredths faster and ran slower MPH on his best run also.

The age thing was to point out it's OLD technology. We could always compare a 96-98 GT to the older 5.0 and the bring the explorer stuff up to the GT 2v guys.

Um, it weighs more than 10 lbs, I know that. I lift a bit here and there, and having had tailpipes in my hands (both sides by the way), it is more than 10lbs. Yep, and he isn't going to gain "power"...the weight probably shows more in that case...

You never know if actually has been tuned for "max power"...there is a line that can be drawn, before it gets dangerous. Just a matter of how far RWTD went with it...

98 Gt is faster than a stock 5.0 sn95...let's get into that one as well...

The mph can be attributed to the driver...lol...bad point.

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

Speeds8erM-1 said:
The Explorer engine is alot closer to a 5.0 in a Mustang than the DOHC stuff is to the SOHC stuff in the GT. 2v cars are the example here and so far they arent winning by as much as you think and often times losing.

Yep, but the point was that you are adding "heads" from a production engine to give it more power, not the ease of placement...

Must be different weather in AR than FL.

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

Speeds8erM-1 said:
Anything over 400 rwhp = time bomb 4.6 rods. All the blower guys worry with theirs. 5.0 block sucks compared to the 4.6 block but the 4.6 rods suck. We can also discuss pistons too. BarryD on TurboMustangs.com's stock 93 hyperutectic shortblock split at 620 rwhp but the pistons were FINE. Throwing a rod is as bad as splitting the block because it kills the block also. Dead rod usually takes almost everything with it, where as you can split the block in a 5.0 and still save the (pointless) rotating assembley SOMETIMES.

Wrong way of looking at it. The rods will go before the block, so it is looked at as it "sucks"...

Yep, but cracking a block lets many more things go loose, therefore hurting heads, cam, frontal area, with a guarantee. A rod being thrown could go out the bottom...

Doubt it on the rotating assembly...

Speeds8erM-1 · Apr 18, 2006

5spd GT said:
Wrong way of looking at it. The rods will go before the block, so it is looked at as it "sucks"...

Yep, but cracking a block lets many more things go loose, therefore hurting heads, cam, frontal area, with a guarantee. A rod being thrown could go out the bottom...

Doubt it on the rotating assembly...

Funny, two friend's split blocks and one bolted his heads onto another stock shortblock the next weekend without any work needing to be done. The other took his Eagle rotating assembley out and put it in his Dart Block (girdle helped some Im sure). So the gaurantee doesnt stand in this case.

5.0 blocks dont split at 420 rwhp with a decent tune yet 4.6 rods do. Tune cant SAVE those horrible rods just as a great tune cant really save a 5.0 block if you beat on it enough.

Speeds8erM-1 · Apr 18, 2006

5spd GT said:
Um, it weighs more than 10 lbs, I know that. I lift a bit here and there, and having had tailpipes in my hands (both sides by the way), it is more than 10lbs. Yep, and he isn't going to gain "power"...the weight probably shows more in that case...

You never know if actually has been tuned for "max power"...there is a line that can be drawn, before it gets dangerous. Just a matter of how far RWTD went with it...

98 Gt is faster than a stock 5.0 sn95...let's get into that one as well...

The mph can be attributed to the driver...lol...bad point.

So you are telling me the Notch is this close because it doesnt have tailpipes? LOL, there is a good chance this is hindering more than helping and if it did help it wouldnt be noticable. We could argue that magnaflow makes more power than mac but who knows anyway.

The GT did 269 rwhp, air fuel was right on, timing, everything and it didnt make anymore power.

Dont care if a 98 GT can beat a stock 95 GT, the 96-98 GT will get owned by the fox body as it has been done 10000 times.

5spd GT · Apr 18, 2006

Speeds8erM-1 said:
Funny, two friend's split blocks and one bolted his heads onto another stock shortblock the next weekend without any work needing to be done. The other took his Eagle rotating assembley out and put it in his Dart Block (girdle helped some Im sure). So the gaurantee doesnt stand in this case.

5.0 blocks dont split at 420 rwhp with a decent tune yet 4.6 rods do. Tune cant SAVE those horrible rods just as a great tune cant really save a 5.0 block if you beat on it enough.

Wrong my friend, there are h/c/i 5.0L's that have split their blocks...some less than that. Things happen...but when you use the "averages" again...the 5.0L cracks under the pressure, figuratively and literally, more often than a 4.6L.

Did it have a girdle? If not, the block didn't actually "split"...probably cracked.

5.0 vs 4.6

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