5spd GT said:I thought this was a mustang site and we were talking about h/c/i on these mustangs......I guess were talking about every car...
Why didn't you mention the weight factor on the track? gears? suspension? etc...? Hmm...looks like there is two sides to that...
AGAIN...where did I say the track doesn't matter? Would you please quit twisting peoples words up...your as bad as snoozer IMO...
Now you realize I just make up stuff right...oh and I've talked with Ed (look at sig.)...
Your arguments aren't very concrete...in fact it hasn't even been mixed yet...try again...
Again if your going to post...don't do the childish namecalling (earlier) and don't twist up what I type out...(past, present, and probably the future)...
Very well said white94cobra...very well said..."some people just don't listen"...with personal experience...but I guess everyone has access to a dyno/custom cam right?...um...no...
Again as I stated...the lower torque suffered and the bucking (driveability) problem can occur and has occured...funny how that is exactly what it did on my cousin's 90 Gt...maybe that is where I got my infamous concoction...or maybe it was from others...geee...I don't know
nmcgrawj said:Dude give it up. You said "A dyno shows the real potential of a car...not a track time..." and thats wrong. A track time will not show the true potential? The track will show you all the changes...gearing...weight....driving...etc where a dyno will not. What does the dyno measure? The CAR? Or the ENGINE? I thought the dyno measures the engine and the track measures the car. Maybe im wrong...its VERY possible b/c i am new to the game. But regardless, I guess you were really hurt/offended by me referring to people in this thread as "chumps" in such a hostile way.Wow, i didn't know i was serious and that i meant for u to take offense to it. No one else did...why did u ? You shouldnt take this internet stuff so seriously. Relax dude
It doesn't matter what else you have to say....Lets drop it. Its over. Its a done deal.
Throttle bodies aren't custom parts, and shouldn't be treated as such. They're an inanimate object with a cord connect connecting to the gas pedal controlling how "big" the hole gets. It's truly that simple. There is no need to "determine the goal of the car." Throw a 75mm on it and be done with it. Yes, I said it.5spd GT said:I determine personally by the approximate hp the car will be pushing and what is the primary goal of the car...I do not jump in and say 75mm all the way...I look at what is being run...(street/track/coupe/vert/possible power/etc...)...
Joes95GT said:I was reading a thread a few days ago on one of those "other" websites where Jay Allen (Ed Curtis' "rival," for lack of a better term) said a switch from 1.6:1 roller rockers to 1.7:1 yielded a 7 RWHP loss. Guess how that affected the car? It went a tenth and a half faster. Let's get our heads out of the magazines, fellas.
How in the hell are you attributing a car's "bucking" problems on a switch to a different size throttle body, which presumably (because nothing was said otherwise) uses the same electronics? That's nonsense. I leave the low-speed torque comments alone, although I think they're nonsense, however I couldn't let this one go. If your car bucks from a throttle body swap, there is something MECHANICALLY wrong, and it's not the size of the throttle body.WHITE94COBRA said:With the cam I chose the everyday driveability with the 75mm makes my car buck
Joes95GT said:Why did I say "I'm done" to this?!Throttle bodies aren't custom parts, and shouldn't be treated as such. They're an inanimate object with a cord connect connecting to the gas pedal controlling how "big" the hole gets. It's truly that simple. There is no need to "determine the goal of the car." Throw a 75mm on it and be done with it. Yes, I said it.
Next topic: Dyno numbers.
Dyno numbers are VERY misleading in this case, and should not be used for a basis of comparison between two parts. Why? Because they do not measure how a car ACCELERATES. Nothing measures acceleration besides a timer.
In fact, I knew someone was going to come in here spouting off about magazine tested dyno numbers or possibly even testing they did themselves. I'll recite what I posted earlier:
Next topic:How in the hell are you attributing a car's "bucking" problems on a switch to a different size throttle body, which presumably (because nothing was said otherwise) uses the same electronics? That's nonsense. I leave the low-speed torque comments alone, although I think they're nonsense, however I couldn't let this one go. If your car bucks from a throttle body swap, there is something MECHANICALLY wrong, and it's not the size of the throttle body.
***
There is a lot of good information in this thread, which certainly could provide the younger guys who have questions with both sides of the story, and allow them to make the decision for themself. I hate to see such a good thread turn into something no one cares to read simply because of the pointless posts, nitpicking at eachother, calling names, pointing fingers, playing off eachothers words and construing them into what you want them to be. There is no need to say "he started it" because you look just as bad for replying to it. Lets keep it to the facts only.
5spd GT - I truly respect your opinions. After re-reading my posts, it may seem that I'm coming off as a bit harsh towards you. If you have taken it that way, I apologize; I mean no harm in what I say/type.
5spd GT said:A dog is mans best friend as well as the dyno
NoSlo90 said:See, there lies() a problem. I've seen cars making changes and pick up NOTHING on the dyno and go to the track and pick up nearly 2 tenths!
Not to mention on different days i've lost 3-5hp in dynoing. Hell, i've seen rear tire pressure even affect the outcome. Its not that i haven't dynoed much either..i've got over 100 runs on AFM's rollers.
Grn92LX said:Joe- Good job in this thread posting a bunch of facts. If you've noticed, i've calmed down on these threads, not as hostile as I was in the pastYou are 100% correct in saying dyno #'s are misleading. David (5spd GT) needs to talk to Mr Michael Yount and ask him about the dyno's ability to be repeatable That guy White94Cobra told me in an older thread that going from the 70mm to 75mm gained him 4hp at the peak and lost 2tq at the peak and down low stayed the same or near the same (aka:within 2tq) So basically its safe to say the 75mm gained 15hp over stock(since he said the 70mm gained 11p over the stock) on that bolt on car and lost a torque or 2 (not that I would trust the dyno to show something so small as 1 or 2) The TRACK tells the story. Ever read Ed Curtis's signature? "Talk is cheap take it to the TRACK and prove your point"
Give me a break. Cut out the 60' time nonsense. 1/4 MPH - 1/8 MPH = total gained MPH over a certain distance. Compare those numbers at the same track on the same day with different parts. You could even do the above calculation using 1/4 time - 1/8 time.5spd GT said:Both the dyno and track are good determiners...you can NOT depend on one...especially the track due to driver error...was the 60ft the same? shifted at the exact rpm? had a high speed camera to detail if the speed was made at the same speed?...etc..etc..etc...
And again I thought I brought up how the dyno isn't very accurate...but less variables to factor in than the dyno...go read some of my previous post on here
Joes95GT said:Give me a break. Cut out the 60' time nonsense. 1/4 MPH - 1/8 MPH = total gained MPH over a certain distance. Compare those numbers at the same track on the same day with different parts. You could even do the above calculation using 1/4 time - 1/8 time.
Ok, enough with the BS.
Riddle me this: Since it is a FACT that velocity is "created" in the runners of a long-runner manifold, what is the purpose of the throttle body?
I still haven't gotten an answer, and at this point, it seems that the facts are being evaded to spin off of eachothers senseless bickering.
Joe
5spd GT said:I thought in my previous post I put how the dyno isn't accurate
osceolamustang said:you guys are a riot. i will give you all a couple of tips.
1st you never know what will work. try them all if nothing else you will most certainly find out what it doesn't want.
2nd dynos are a useful tool. but the guys with the fastest cars tune at the track.
Grn92LX said:Ever read Ed Curtis's signature? "Talk is cheap take it to the TRACK and prove your point"
Paul (killercanary) I'll put money on it that either longtubes or a 75mm TB get you into the 11's. Just look at your other badd ass vert partner and what he gained with the 80mm. Almost 2mph!!!!!!
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?