'88 GT Convertible - Croatia, Europe

7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
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Sep 1, 2010
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Soooooo, If I finally get lucky with this engine, I could "just" have a loose or "racing" bearing clearance.
Plastigage result was like 0.002 on all journals.

Therefore if I don't get hit in head by con rod (or piston) in next several hundred miles, in theory this 302 could live with it for long if Ithrow in high volume oil pump?
A HV pump will increase pressure once it starts spinning, and might not increase it at hot idle.
Either run it at 10-15 psi idle, or open it up and investigate.
 
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snovak

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Ouch.... Me and luck? No way.

Opened filters:
First filter (two heat cycles) has "normal" running-in few shiny particles.
Second filter (300miles) is worth a gold... some bearing(s) on the way out...
I suppose main/rod. Cam bearing has no copper/brass, right?

1st rebuild fail. Damn I feel bad. It was possible scenario, but you know....sh**!!!
Will report when I gather strenght to dig in again...will also try to measure compression before pulling...
 

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7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
10 Year Member
Sep 1, 2010
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Kearney, NE
Ouch.... Me and luck? No way.

Opened filters:
First filter (two heat cycles) has "normal" running-in few shiny particles.
Second filter (300miles) is worth a gold... some bearing(s) on the way out...
I suppose main/rod. Cam bearing has no copper/brass, right?

1st rebuild fail. Damn I feel bad. It was possible scenario, but you know....sh**!!!
Will report when I gather strenght to dig in again...will also try to measure compression before pulling...
The metallic sparkles would be pretty as paint. They are not schoen as oil contaminants.
If this was a non roller cam (flat tappet), I would suspect a chain of failure. With a roller cam, besides an out of round journal as I think you suspected, @General karthief ’s oil path issue idea needs examined closely.
 

snovak

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Grabbed courage and went to car before I get sick from PTSP.
Checked filter again. Copper or brass. Magnet does not pickup particles. Most particles were luckily in filter. Drained oil nothing to none.
Edit: added picture

I would say crank. Machining problem cause I plastigaged. @7991LXnSHO either out of round or taper.
Oil hits mains first, as I understand then it makes thru 3 long channels to upper part. I cleaned all of thoose very carefully (like a gun cleaning brush). Lifters disassembled and cleaned, cam new, cam bearings new...makes no sense. I would bet on crank issue.

Anyone has a good 50oz crank at home or to recommend?
 

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7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
10 Year Member
Sep 1, 2010
7,098
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Kearney, NE
Grabbed courage and went to car before I get sick from PTSP.
Checked filter again. Copper or brass. Magnet does not pickup particles. Most particles were luckily in filter. Drained oil nothing to none.
Edit: added picture

I would say crank. Machining problem cause I plastigaged. @7991LXnSHO either out of round or taper.
Oil hits mains first, as I understand then it makes thru 3 long channels to upper part. I cleaned all of thoose very carefully (like a gun cleaning brush). Lifters disassembled and cleaned, cam new, cam bearings new...makes no sense. I would bet on crank issue.

Anyone has a good 50oz crank at home or to recommend?
Was the crank already machined undersized, and by how much?
 

snovak

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Was the crank already machined undersized, and by how much?
Was, -0.010" both mains and rods.
Crank was more-less fine (small groove on #1) before teardown (problem was with #5 piston scratching a cylinder wall).

Ohh gosh...I actually ordered grinding to -0.010 just to be 100% sure in the bottom end.... Well now turns out that did not play well...actually was a big mistake.

You simply can't do it all by yourself (grinding crank and cylinders), but sometimes you wish you could.....
 

7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
10 Year Member
Sep 1, 2010
7,098
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Kearney, NE
Was, -0.010" both mains and rods.
Crank was more-less fine (small groove on #1) before teardown (problem was with #5 piston scratching a cylinder wall).

Ohh gosh...I actually ordered grinding to -0.010 just to be 100% sure in the bottom end.... Well now turns out that did not play well...actually was a big mistake.

You simply can't do it all by yourself (grinding crank and cylinders), but sometimes you wish you could.....
.020” bearings should be available if the crank needs touched up at a good machine shop.
 

manicmechanic007

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1988 would have had 10-30 oil as factory fill
Inspect the oil coming thru the pushrods cold with a drill on the pump
That will let you know the passages are clear
If good oil flow comes thru the pushrods cold
You just need to figure what's happening to cause the loss of oil pressure hot
If little or no flow cold then you have issues with the oil pump itself most likely

.010 is a normal undersize grind for a crank
never see .020 unless something old (big block or steel crank)
You plastigaged then anyway right and they came out okay
 

7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
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Sep 1, 2010
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.010 is a normal undersize grind for a crank
never see .020 unless something old (big block or steel crank)
You plastigaged then anyway right and they came out okay
See them here. They are available if needed.
34 years old counts as old enough when shipping on a crank and standard bearings is going to be horribly high to Croatia compared to oversize bearings.
 
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manicmechanic007

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What I was saying is most machinists will not grind a small block ford crank .020?
They will make you get another crankshaft. That has been my experience anyway
Ford used pink yellow and blue cranks pistons and bearings for a few thousandths either way of nominal for years
Ford did not want to discard every part that was slightly oversize or undersize
So .010 usually cleans them up
 

snovak

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Hmm, I lost time and money all to have a fast fail and copper in the engine with all new parts.
All that most likely due to one of two parts I did not do by myself (crank and cylinderw)....still need to confirm that.
I am sick of people not doing they work as supposed to, globally in life not only machinist.

If it is a crank now, I am looking more and more to go for a NEW Eagle Cast 103023000-50. Is this worth a chit?

I am not motivated into finding another machinist, pay for another grinding and go thru all this chit with -.020 crank. If they fail again I will need another one either way...
 
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7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
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Unless you have measured to be sure the crank is the problem with a micrometer to make sure it is round and the right size, you are getting ahead of yourself. Plastigauge is good at measuring clearance at one spot, and you have been worried about 360 degrees roundness. If the current crank is messed up, you are still relying on someone elses’s machine work plus shipping care on a new crank.
It might need only a polish and whatever other problem fixed.
 
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manicmechanic007

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I would not be tearing into it yet either
I would be solving the oil pressure issue and or blowing it up in the process
I would be looking for any witness marks
I'd run it enough to know the problem for sure when I disassembled it again
I had a rash of self induced problems with the initial first boss motor I built
All solved now but it was hell
Good luck
 

snovak

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@7991LXnSHO well said, and of course that I want to see and analyze a carnage done down there before making any decision and ordering anything...
...beside gaskets which I ordered allready :)

With the care taken and all the measurements done, I doubt in (listed by priority):
I) crank roundness/taper (machinist)
II) rotary assembly balance (new H273CP pistons+ SCAT floating pin rods)
III) converter ballooning
Don't know which one of those would take bearings away in 300 miles, but apart from a bit shaky idle (like vacuum problem) and rattle between 2000-3000rpm car wend like s raped ape in run-in limits (3/4 throttle Max and 2500rpm max)...

@manicmechanic007 I have no balls to run it like this... gold oil, low pressure 5w30 and rattle is a bad sign...
 

manicmechanic007

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Take that oil filter off
Drill motor on the oil pump shaft
Give 'er hell
I want to see 5 quarts on the ground (or in a clean container) in 20 seconds
 

manicmechanic007

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Snovac, You should not have to run it for long.
You have determined / confirmed you have no or low oil pressure right?
I need to tell you a story about a brand new F150 that came off the transport with a blown off filter and the base was still there
We thought great we got a sheety filter, so I replaced it and put more oil in it
Damn thing blew the new oil filter off again and oil all over the cars below it on the transport again
3 filters later I had the pan off and a new oil pump for it (transport driver drove it off the truck knocking a little)
The pressure relief valve was stuck in the pump
Your new pumps relief valve might be stuck in the other direction or the relief valve spring broke
Let us assume that the machine work was done all proper and start with the cheapest easiest things it could be first
You verified I take it the feed holes in the cam and main bearings are in the proper orientation
 

snovak

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@manicmechanic007 thnx for suggestions.
I don't see a exact point of taking the filter off and drilling the oil out on the floor. What should it proove? I have 50psi cold pressure as soon as I turn the drilll...
BTW done that with only 1/2qt and engine on stand just to proove pump works before returnin in car.

@manicmechanic007 good point about the oil pump/relief valve. I loose pressure only with hot oil. With gaskets I also have another new Melling oil pump allready shipped (35$ worth risk). Small chances, but possible.
Regarding oil passages and bearing feed holes I was really anal with those and I allready verified they are okay in assembly pictures...
 
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manicmechanic007

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Just so you know its pumping like a mo fo is why hit the pump with a drill and no filter
What if there is a piece of %$#t in the galley somewhere?
I want you to test the oiling system everywhere you can
Pushrods sensor every access point I want to see oil shoot the hell out with a drill
That is why I had clean container in parenthesis as well
I want to inspect what comes out with the oil

I miss the days of a cross drilled crank

You can get two oil pumps for a small block ford I believe
One has longer rotors and is either high volume or pressure ( interchangeable as far as I am concerned )
I run the longer rotor pump in mine
I bought a massaged one with relieved passages and deburred all fancy from Roush performance back in the Gapp and Rouch racing days
I would like to see you find a long rotor, deep housing one and massage it yourself
Those oil pump drives used to twist right the hell in half if one of the rotors in the pump seizes
So they make billet ones like from Pro Stock Engineering if they are still around
You running a roller cam and need a steel distributor gear? (just make sure your gear is okay and the drive hex in the shaft is good)
 
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snovak

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@manicmechanic007 I took standard pump. All the stories about emptying oil pan and wiping tight bearings (high volume) and twisting drive shafts (high pressure) kept me away from HV/HP.
I have both roller cam and steel gear. Everything in order down there. As I told, I get 50 psi at first turn, as soon as I start drill.
As the oil is getting warm I loose idle pressure (5w30 under 10psi, 10w40 about 20psi).

Today I will try to measure compression before unplugging anything and get into preparations for pulling the engine...we may discuss for ages, but down there is a proof....
 
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