AFR head and intake combo help

[droptopford 5 0]

on a stock 94 GT, are AFR 165's, a cobra or GT-40 intake, stock cam, tweecer, full o/r exhaust (non LT's), u/d pulleys and cai, 65 mm t/b and 70 MM MAF enough to break the 300 rwhp mark?? hoping...what fuel system parts must be upgradee to run these afr's with a tweecer tune? pump, and adj. f.p. regulator, hopefully can i keep stock 19lb injectors with stock fuel rails? im sure theres important parts of this im forgetting all about.. chime in with any help you can give thanks, Kyle

 

[CManT1914]

I don't think you'll be hitting the 300 mark with the stock cam. Maybe 280 or so, but maybe somebody else will chime in who actually has a similar combo.

Oh yea, stock fuel rails are fine, I'd be a little worried about those 19 lb injectors, you'd probably want 24's at least.

 

[droptopford 5 0]

i'm just worried to death about doing a cam swap with our cars, not that it cant be fixed with a tweecer etc, but i'd like to do a lot of the tuning myself and my experience is limited so i know throwing a cam into the mix would make it that much harder, plus would it still be possible to still pass MA emmissions with just heads and intake considering I kept the stock cam and threw the stock h pipe on for a bit.. with an aftermarket cam it would make it that much harder to pass wouldnt it?

 

[CManT1914]

I think the main thing you need to pass emissions is just a good tune. True, it makes it harder to tune when you throw in a cam, but it's still possible to get an awesome, 100% streetable, emissions friendly (depending on the cam of course) tune out of it. If need be, just leave on the EGR and smog systems, and then you can throw on the stock h-pipe when needed and you should be able to pass okay. If it's the actual labor you're worried about, don't. The cam swap is easier than the head swap.

 

[droptopford 5 0]

ya... i'd be doing it myself, and while the heads are off i should just replace pushrods, and rockers while im at it, never done it before, but i cant wait to do something a lot more challenging than just bolt on parts.... if i can build up my confidence by successfully swapping my aod-e for a world class t-5, i think ill def tackle the head, intake... and MAYBE the cam swap but from what i understand wouldnt the heads and intake be most beneficial for HP?, or is the cam really that important of an upgrade in the combo... im just looking for a rough 300 hp while still feeling very streetable, and dont forget im still in college, so i dont have the money to really keep messing with it, i'd like to maybe throw 2500-3000(including fuel and maf and t/b upgrades etc) at the swap(not including the trans swap money) and be good... plus i'd like to have it somewhat dependable so i dont need to drive my winter beater in the summer while the stang isnt running haha

 

[Rootus]

You do not necessarily need to know much about tuning. You can swipe someone else's TwEECer tune and be 99% of the way to having yours the way you want it.

I'd also mention that you might want to watch your budget closely. $3000 is very easy to exceed, especially with top of the line parts like AFR heads.

 

[CManT1914]

Well the cam is SOOO easy to do while you're in there, and I can almost guarantee you will not hit 300 to the wheels without a better one. It's a good idea to replace the lifters, pushrods, and rockers too. Matter of fact, if AFR's are like my TFS heads, the stock pushrods won't even fit. A new timing chain is an excellent idea too. So like Rootus said, be very thorough in looking up prices, it's VERY easy to go over your budget when doing this stuff, I know I did.

 

[droptopford 5 0]

Well the cam is SOOO easy to do while you're in there, and I can almost guarantee you will not hit 300 to the wheels without a better one. It's a good idea to replace the lifters, pushrods, and rockers too. Matter of fact, if AFR's are like my TFS heads, the stock pushrods won't even fit. A new timing chain is an excellent idea too. So like Rootus said, be very thorough in looking up prices, it's VERY easy to go over your budget when doing this stuff, I know I did.

ya thinking better about it... i dont even think it would be possible to do it for 3000, considering i've seen afr 165's for 1400 alone, plus rods, lifter, rockers, intakes, and gaskets... even aside from the cam, plus theres the supporting mods, it will never happen for that money, but either way im still interested, maybe wheels will just hafta wait if i go this route, BTW, what does a tweecer with software go for?

 

[final5-0]

on a stock 94 GT, are AFR 165's, a cobra or GT-40 intake, stock cam, tweecer, full o/r exhaust (non LT's), u/d pulleys and cai, 65 mm t/b and 70 MM MAF enough to break the 300 rwhp mark?? hoping...what fuel system parts must be upgradee to run these afr's with a tweecer tune? pump, and adj. f.p. regulator, hopefully can i keep stock 19lb injectors with stock fuel rails? im sure theres important parts of this im forgetting all about.. chime in with any help you can give thanks, Kyle

Kyle

19's are way too small for your goals.

With stock cam and your choice of intakes I'd say around 275rwhp give or take.

If your not in a hurry to do the heads you could always do like I did. Get some self tuning experience while your combo is kinda mild. Cams, larger inj's, aftermarket mafs, and the like does make self tuning a bit more difficult.

btw ...... if your going with the Tweecer, don't waste your money on a afpr as you don't need one with that tuning method.

Later
Grady

 

[Mac-man]

subscribing....thinking of a similar combination myself.

 

[CManT1914]

ya thinking better about it... i dont even think it would be possible to do it for 3000, considering i've seen afr 165's for 1400 alone, plus rods, lifter, rockers, intakes, and gaskets... even aside from the cam, plus theres the supporting mods, it will never happen for that money, but either way im still interested, maybe wheels will just hafta wait if i go this route, BTW, what does a tweecer with software go for?

Don't be scared to do it, you just gotta budget things. You CAN get by without replacing the lifters, they're not 100% neccessary (just recommended). Things like exhaust can wait until later down the road too. Buy parts used, and you'll save tons of money. Here's the basic rundown of what I spent:

Heads: $1100 (new)
Cam: $105 (used)
Intake: $200 (used, ported)
Rockers: $150 (used)
Lifters: $110 (used)
Pushrods: $50 (used)
Headers: $120 (new)
Timing chain: $75 (new)
Injectors: $225 (used)
AFPR: $80 (new)
MAF: $100 (used)
Hardware: $37
Gaskets: $88
Misc: $20 (RTV etc.)

Total: $2460

Now you don't have to do the headers, afpr, maf, injectors (I'd really recommend it though), timing chain, lifters, pushrods (AFR's might need longer ones, not sure), maf etc. Look around on eBay and in the classifieds and you can find some GREAT deals.

EDIT: Oh yea, a twEECer can be had for $400-$500 used, and that's for the RT model. I got mine used 5 months old for $425 shipped.

 

[droptopford 5 0]

Kyle

19's are way too small for your goals.

With stock cam and your choice of intakes I'd say around 275rwhp give or take.

If your not in a hurry to do the heads you could always do like I did. Get some self tuning experience while your combo is kinda mild. Cams, larger inj's, aftermarket mafs, and the like does make self tuning a bit more difficult.

btw ...... if your going with the Tweecer, don't waste your money on a afpr as you don't need one with that tuning method.

Later
Grady

grady, how much could i really tune with a pretty much stock setup that would help me learn self tuning better? is it even worth getting one if all i have now is full exhaust... maybe it would since i am only running 12* timing and will ping on anything less than 93 octane.. even 10* is sketchy

 

[Rootus]

grady, how much could i really tune with a pretty much stock setup that would help me learn self tuning better? is it even worth getting one if all i have now is full exhaust... maybe it would since i am only running 12* timing and will ping on anything less than 93 octane.. even 10* is sketchy

94/95's are well known for being a bit pingy. I don't know if I would actually get a tuner to address that, however, unless bigger mods were down the road in the near future.

Edit: Oh wait, you're the guy who started the thread . If you're really going to do the AFR's, I'd fork over for the tuner and then get something a little more aggressive than the stock HO cam. Otherwise you'd be leaving quite a lot of power on the table.

 

[final5-0]

grady, how much could i really tune with a pretty much stock setup that would help me learn self tuning better? is it even worth getting one if all i have now is full exhaust... maybe it would since i am only running 12* timing and will ping on anything less than 93 octane.. even 10* is sketchy

Well

Dave (Rootus) has been around the block as they say, kinda sorta like me, with his combo and tuning it with his Tweecer.

So I guess you got two guys telling you the same things.

You can make a difference that you will be able to feel with simple tweecs like killing the shift retard, more fuel, and the like.

Later
Grady

 

[droptopford 5 0]

well thats why i come here...to learn. thanks for all the help, and im definately considering the tuner now, well, after the trans swap at least. it might be a little while before i go down the H/C/I road with school coming up, but its good to get some ideas and i love the idea of doing all of it by myself, so you'll probably see me badgering you over the winter, but we'll see what happens. while im on the subject of tuning, what exactly is the frpp rpm extender, i had a friend trying to sell me on buying one, but he really has less of a clue about tuning than i do and i never see them for sale anywhere (plus he's a chevy guy haha.) what are they all about?? (i did search, but didnt find what i was looking for as far as explaining how useful they are (or arent)

 

[final5-0]

well thats why i come here...to learn. thanks for all the help, and im definately considering the tuner now, well, after the trans swap at least. it might be a little while before i go down the H/C/I road with school coming up, but its good to get some ideas and i love the idea of doing all of it by myself, so you'll probably see me badgering you over the winter, but we'll see what happens. while im on the subject of tuning, what exactly is the frpp rpm extender, i had a friend trying to sell me on buying one, but he really has less of a clue about tuning than i do and i never see them for sale anywhere (plus he's a chevy guy haha.) what are they all about?? (i did search, but didnt find what i was looking for as far as explaining how useful they are (or arent)

As for the extender..................................

Not nearly as many options with it as Tweecer, PMS, etc, but it is effective.

Lots of info over on the Corral about it. Use the word extender or the name Michael Plummer in your search.

I've got some screen shots and a little info on the Tweecer V1.20 on my site if you want to take a look. The newer Tweecer software looks a bit different than that version but it can give you an idea about self tuning I guess. On that same tuning page look for a couple of links to other Tweecer self tuning sites which could be of some help to you.

Later
Grady

 

[95WhiteVenom]

the extender is old school and wont do a lot of good has very few tuning options. The tweecer on the other hand has a lot of options. You definately want to get rid of the stock cam cause those heads will make power above what that cam will. If your gonna go into something like this remember don't go cheapo on something that is important unless you want to replace is soon down the road.
Good luck

 

[tmoss]

You're gonna need 24# to hit 300 RWHP. MatZ281LE had a SN car that used a 65mm TB, 77mm MAF, AFR 165 heads, tmoss ported Cobra intake and a mild (but potent) Crower 15511 cam, shorties, OR H that made 307RWHP/330RWTQ.

 

[droptopford 5 0]

You're gonna need 24# to hit 300 RWHP. MatZ281LE had a SN car that used a 65mm TB, 77mm MAF, AFR 165 heads, tmoss ported Cobra intake and a mild (but potent) Crower 15511 cam, shorties, OR H that made 307RWHP/330RWTQ.

this is probably close to the set up i would like to be running in a year or two, ported cobra or gt-40 intake, afr 165's, mild cam and i already have o/r h, so i'd probably stay with shorties, but this is a little while down the road now, i got hit by some drunk kid in my campus parking lot and he ran(typical UMASS for ya), so thats gonna be a few bucks, plus my t-5 swap, and gears, and s/f connectors take precident along with wheels for now...... thanks for everything though, grady, if you want to PM some of those screen shots when you get a chance, that would be great, I'm always up for learning something new, and the tweecer is really something im pretty clueless about...i hate being so ignorent about some parts about our cars, thanks, Kyle (correction): you said it was on your site, ill check them out now...

 

[Joes95GT]

The stock cam will work very well if it is "re-degreed".

AFR 165's, port match the GT40 lower and fix the front two runners, 65/70/75mm TB, 80mm MAF, 24's or 30's, and put the cam in on a 110-112* LCA with 1.7's on both sides.

As a matter of fact, because you're using such a small cam, you could really have the heads wacked down 6cc's or so and bring up the static and dynamic compression to give you that extra "umph".

Oh, BTW, listen to Grady about the Tweecer. He knows his chit...big time.

Joe