Are Pony Cars Getting TOO Big?

[revhead347]

When you decide to really start pushing a car while keeping some street manners, you'll really appreciate a smaller car. There is nothing that hurts you worse than weight. It's an 86' 325i BMW. I'm sure it doesn't keep up with today's standards, but awefully close. And the US Government crash tests are pretty weak sauce to be honest with you. You get 5 stars by sticking in more airbags.

Size of the car has practically nothing to do with you walking away. Statistically Pickup trucks have been the most dangerous vehicles to be in an accident in. The smaller cars today do just as well as the big ones. I'm willing to bet the 370Z does just as well as the Mustang in a crash.

Kurt

 

[revhead347]

Oh, and those little econobox cars do handle well if you put a few things like performance shocks and better tires on them. Don't believe me, go to an autocross event. You'll get your ass handed to you by a Civic. I did.

Kurt

 

[Black95GTS]

When I got into my accident in my F150, (which is WAY easier to see out of then a Mustang!) I had 200 dollars worth of damage to my vehicle but the eclipse that rear-ended me was totaled. It ran into my trailer hitch at 40mph.

So how did that manage to tear the labrum off my left shoulder? PT told me that large, full framed cars are some of the worst to get into an accident in. The frame is so strong that any movement / impact to it is felt directly by the driver. The vehicle doesn't absorb force. I have screws in my shoulder to prove it.

Moral of the story - Heavier doesn't mean squat safety wise. I'd rather have been in a 3800 pound Volvo with crumple zones then my 4800 pound truck.

Adam

 

[Pokageek]

When I got into my accident in my F150, (which is WAY easier to see out of then a Mustang!) I had 200 dollars worth of damage to my vehicle but the eclipse that rear-ended me was totaled. It ran into my trailer hitch at 40mph.

So how did that manage to tear the labrum off my left shoulder? PT told me that large, full framed cars are some of the worst to get into an accident in. The frame is so strong that any movement / impact to it is felt directly by the driver. The vehicle doesn't absorb force. I have screws in my shoulder to prove it.

Moral of the story - Heavier doesn't mean squat safety wise. I'd rather have been in a 3800 pound Volvo with crumple zones then my 4800 pound truck.

Adam

WOW. That is quite a story..so we have two sides to this debate on cars getting larger..at least on safety. The larger cars may or may not be safer for the passengers inside .. but will cause more damage to your car if you're on the other end of it... which could mean more damage to you as well. So you are going to be worse off getting hit by that f150, that's for sure. I see the biggest issue being HEIGHT.. when the bumper is kissing you in the face you know, that could be an issue.

As to the mustangs.. well put those big brakes and engine in the older smaller car..and you have an argument for lighter and smaller..

 

[earleys94gt]

crumple zones

Key phrase...

As much as I hate to say it, speed has something to do with it too.

If that Eclipse had hit you at 55 or at 25, the results may have been different.

Regardless of what side you are on in this "debate", I think we can all agree there are MANY factors involved.

On a side note, the new Camaro is hidious!

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Found this on another Forum....

F150 vs. GEO Tracker

Hit him hard enough, that it drove him forward into a Ram Pick-up in front of him....

And the poor GEO....

 

[88stang88]

Those new F150's are built pretty good my brother has one and he has gotten hit 2 times in it and you can barely tell. +1 to Ford for making that worth the money.

 

[Pokageek]

Fords rock.

 

[DDSTANG94]

When I got into my accident in my F150, (which is WAY easier to see out of then a Mustang!) I had 200 dollars worth of damage to my vehicle but the eclipse that rear-ended me was totaled. It ran into my trailer hitch at 40mph.

So how did that manage to tear the labrum off my left shoulder? PT told me that large, full framed cars are some of the worst to get into an accident in. The frame is so strong that any movement / impact to it is felt directly by the driver. The vehicle doesn't absorb force. I have screws in my shoulder to prove it.

Moral of the story - Heavier doesn't mean squat safety wise. I'd rather have been in a 3800 pound Volvo with crumple zones then my 4800 pound truck.

Adam

+1

Its all how the kinetic energy is transferred.

You will always hear ppl say "they sure dont biuld cars like they used to"

And its true, they dont. People see a demolished car and think "back in the day you could drive a car home after a crash like that" Well you probably could, but It wouldn't be the owner driving it home because he died of massive internal injury because that "solid, sturdy, well built car transferred all the force straight into ur body.

As a Licensed EMT u learn alot about this stuff in ur training.

 

[Pokageek]

:OT: DDSTANG, whats wrong with your trans from D&D?

 

[DDSTANG94]

:OT: DDSTANG, whats wrong with your trans from D&D?

IT has never shifted smoothly since day 1.

It has never popped out of gear or grinded, but its very "notchey and rakes" into all gears, esp 2nd, will never go into reverse the 1st time, and hard to get into 5th gear. Its almost like the synchronizes were no good, but a few ppl including D&D have told me its probably a bent shift fork? but its definitely worse when its cold out so im not sure what that means. Its not horrible, but no better than the original trans.

On a side note i take it as a isolated incident I guess, as they have a good rep locally and on the net.

 

[Black95GTS]

Found this on another Forum....

F150 vs. GEO Tracker

Hit him hard enough, that it drove him forward into a Ram Pick-up in front of him....

And the poor GEO....

That is eerily similar to my accident. I have pics at my home pc I'll try to dig up. But now we are waaay :OT:

Adam

 

[revhead347]

+1

Its all how the kinetic energy is transferred.

You will always hear ppl say "they sure dont biuld cars like they used to"

And its true, they dont. People see a demolished car and think "back in the day you could drive a car home after a crash like that" Well you probably could, but It wouldn't be the owner driving it home because he died of massive internal injury because that "solid, sturdy, well built car transferred all the force straight into ur body.

As a Licensed EMT u learn alot about this stuff in ur training.

Amen, I don't know why people don't understand this. I have a friend that bitches that cars aren't made of metal anymore. It's not about being cheap. You can't make a car completely out of steal that crumples properly in an accident, and gets 40mpg. The metal that is on a car is thinner in order to be safer and be lighter for fuel economy.

Kurt

 

[95riosnake]

I definitely think they are all getting too big, I sat in an 07 and hated it. It doesn't have that feel of a sports car. I like to feel hugged in by the interior of the car, and in the S197's it feels like I'm in an F250.

There's also something that really sucks that you have to put 20+" wheels on the car to give it the look of 18's on a pre '05. You then have no sidewall and a super heavy wheel/tire combo.

I'll stick to 94-04.

 

[Mustank]

Sheer size isn't necessarily going to determine how a car handles or brakes. If that were the case, these little econoboxes would be running circles around our cars. Don't you find it ironic that the '10-up Mustang is the biggest and heaviest Mustang built to date, yet handles, stops and retains better fuel economy than any model before it?

Ironic, no; Sad, yes...sad that Ford didn't engineer previous Mustangs as well as the new ones.

The new Mustangs don't handle better because they're bigger and heavier. They handle better despite the fact that they're bigger and heavier...

Found this on another Forum....

F150 vs. GEO Tracker

Hit him hard enough, that it drove him forward into a Ram Pick-up in front of him....

And the poor GEO....

There's a difference between a vehicle being "tough" and being safe.

The force of the crash has to be absorbed somehow. The only part of a car that really needs to be solid is the cabin. Just look at F1 and NASCAR - the cars are engineered to disentegrate and cushion the driver compartment.

That GEO Tracker was designed to crumple like it did. If it was as solid as the F150, all three drivers would have been worse off.

Bottom line: Bigger isn't necessarily safer, it just makes people FEEL safer.

And perception always trumps reality.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

There's a difference between a vehicle being "tough" and being safe.

The force of the crash has to be absorbed somehow. The only part of a car that really needs to be solid is the cabin. Just look at F1 and NASCAR - the cars are engineered to disentegrate and cushion the driver compartment.

That GEO Tracker was designed to crumple like it did. If it was as solid as the F150, all three drivers would have been worse off.

Bottom line: Bigger isn't necessarily safer, it just makes people FEEL safer.

And perception always trumps reality.

Fair enough....so tell me....which vehicle would you rather be in should these two have met head to head at closing speed of 60mph?

Go ahead....tell me it would be the Tracker.

...I know my ass would be planted in that F150!

I know you'd like this to be a clear cut comparison, but there's most certainly a compromise between bigger/heavier and safer.

And keep in mind....a NASCAR's and a street cars are two completely different animals. Stock cars are built to keep weight down and handle 200mph crashes. Street cars are not.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Whats the point of comparing cars that are not of equal height? The F150 has a distinct advantage because of where it will hit the tracker at. There's no way the tracker can defend itself, nothing is in that area to absorb a crash.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Whats the point of comparing cars that are not of equal height? The F150 has a distinct advantage because of where it will hit the tracker at. There's no way the tracker can defend itself, nothing is in that area to absorb a crash.

That F150 above was stopped at the traffic light and rear ended by that tracker. Most other vehicles would have been an accordion after that.....but as you can see, the F150 has nary a scratch.

It got more damaged from being driven into the also stopped, full sized Dodge pick up in front of it than it did being tagged at 30mph from behind by the Tracker.

I don't deny that the vehicles ability to absorb kinetic energy will play a big part in whether someone does, or doesn't walk away from a crash....but it’s not all about eating the blow. There has to be a compromise between sturdiness and absorbs ion.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Ok....so the tracker nose dived during braking...making the front even lower than the F150s height.

It's the height and what part of the car that gets hit. Let that be a lifted F-150 hitting it and what will the result be?

 

[Black95GTS]

F150 Versus Mitsubishi

Ok....so the tracker nose dived during braking...making the front even lower than the F150s height.

It's the height and what part of the car that gets hit. Let that be a lifted F-150 hitting it and what will the result be?

See attachments. My F150 and his Mitsubishi after the crash. I was at a dead stop at a red light on Rte. 9 in Natick. My bumper was bent down and I needed a new license plate... you can see his damage for yourself.

Adam