AutoX suspension plan-Suspension Gods-help

livenfine · Dec 27, 2003

2003 was my first season to autocross. I'll be putting about $2k into my '90 Mustang GT convertible this off season. But what?

Here's my plan...KYB AGX, H&R race springs up front, stock springs in rear for now, MM panhard bar, MM adj lower control arms to start, front poly kit, cc plates. $1700. Then about $600 for Kumho 710s, 245/40-17s on 17X8. That's pretty close to $2000.

Next year's plan would be MM T/A, T/A springs rear, MM K-member.

If you've been there/done that, I'd love to hear your opinion... If I'm on the wrong path-let me know

85_SS_302_Coupe · Dec 27, 2003

yea i'd like to hear some info ont his subject as well

Michael Yount · Dec 27, 2003

You'll get lots of different opinions out there about the best autocross setups. Having done a good bit of road racing/autocrossing I'd suggest that before you start modifying the car, you tune up the driver. I'd spend money first on improving your driving skills. There are autocross driving schools out there - find one and attend it. I've seen too many basically stock cars well driven out run modified cars that aren't well driven.

Next - I'd add the good wheels and tires. The right tire far and away is the biggest single improvement you can make. If you're gonna keep it on the autocross course, brake rotor size won't be too much of an issue - I think you'll find that a 16" combination is going to weigh less and perform better than a 17" combo (even though the 17"ers look better).

Once you've tuned yourself up as a driver, and have really good lightweight (light weight wheels!) wheels/rubber on the car - then decide what suspension mods you want. On a vert, the unibody is EXTREMELY flexible/loose which makes it very hard for the suspension to do its job properly. I'd work on stiffening the unibody before I added suspension pieces - subframe connectors and the various braces help; properly designed and tied-in roll cage is the best help in that department.

BlackFox5.0 · Dec 27, 2003

I'd go with Bilstiens or Tokicos (sp)

Where the hell are you gettint these tires from? I got 4 245/45/17 Kumho 712's which are a better tire than the 710's, for $383 shipped to my house from www.tirerack.com they are $89 each, you might want to look into that

Fox Saleen 163 · Dec 27, 2003

I know you said it's for the future, but you may want to rethink the torque arm if your primary concern is auto-x. Auto-x courses are really tight and it's sometimes best to slide the rear of your car out to help with the apex of the turn. It's going to be harder to slide out your rear with all of the added grip of the torque arm. All depends on the driver though. I would give Maximum Motorsports a call, tell them your plans and see what they suggest.

I would also go with the Bilstiens over the KYB's.

Fox Saleen 163 · Dec 27, 2003

Oh yeah... And if you're planning to go with a K member next season, I'm sure you're not planning on using the stock A arms with that. Which means you will have to get coil overs. So either get coil overs now, or waste money on springs that you're going to take out next season. Thats another reason to get the Bilsteins, perfect for the MM coil over kit.

livenfine · Dec 27, 2003

BlackFox5.0 said:
I'd go with Bilstiens or Tokicos (sp)

Where the hell are you gettint these tires from? I got 4 245/45/17 Kumho 712's which are a better tire than the 710's, for $383 shipped to my house from www.tirerack.com they are $89 each, you might want to look into that

I think we're talking about different 710s. Try http://www.tirerack.com/tires/kumho/kumho_710.html.

Michael Yount said:
I'd spend money first on improving your driving skills. There are autocross driving schools out there - find one and attend it.

Agreed. Planning on Evo in July. I've had hot drivers drive my car and noone has outdriven me, not even close. The stang is very hard to handle.

I'd work on stiffening the unibody before I added suspension pieces - subframe connectors and the various braces help; properly designed and tied-in roll cage is the best help in that department.

Careful with this advice, Michael. Though it is true, it will throw you into a SCCA class deeper then you may want to go. The SFCs will technically throw you into the CP class where it's hard, very hard, to compete.

Some have already been down this path and have set up their cars with success. I want to do what has worked in the past. Why reinvent the wheel?

Fox Saleen 163 · Dec 27, 2003

Maybe he was thinking of the 711's, which do suck compared tot he 712's. Now the V710's, that would be a race tire.. you're not thinking about running these on the street are you? DOT or not, I wouldn't suggest it. Besides, they aren't even available yet are they? Who knows when they will make it in the 245 width you wanted. I would just get some Panaracers if I was using a "race only" set of wheels and tires.

Yep, SCCA rules SFC's do up you a class. However, you can drop in a roll cage which will stiffen it quite a bit and you can stay in the same class. Weight is a sacrafice you wil have to decide on yourself.

True, if someone else can win with a certain setup it is obviously possible. Whatever works for you.

Michael Yount · Dec 27, 2003

livenfine - based on your original post (no mention of the sanctioning bodies) I just assumed you wanted quicker times, irrespective of what class you were in. Didn't realize you wanted to win your SCCA class - just thought you wanted to go faster.

livenfine · Dec 27, 2003

Fox Saleen 163 said:
Maybe he was thinking of the 711's, which do suck compared tot he 712's. Now the V710's, that would be a race tire.. you're not thinking about running these on the street are you? DOT or not, I wouldn't suggest it. Besides, they aren't even available yet are they? Who knows when they will make it in the 245 width you wanted. I would just get some Panaracers if I was using a "race only" set of wheels and tires.

Yep, SCCA rules SFC's do up you a class. However, you can drop in a roll cage which will stiffen it quite a bit and you can stay in the same class. Weight is a sacrafice you wil have to decide on yourself.

True, if someone else can win with a certain setup it is obviously possible. Whatever works for you.

Fox, what are you running for suspension? Have you had much success?

I have no intention of driving these tires on the street, strictly for events only.

Fox Saleen 163 · Dec 27, 2003

I'm running the MM road and track kit with Adj. lower control arms, plus a torque arm with the matching rear springs. +4* caster, -1.5* camber. Kumho 712's 225/50/16, 245/45/16. Stock sway bars for now, going with a MM adj. rear sway bar pretty soon.

Success? On curvy mountain roads, yes. I like running over cones too much to be competitive in auto-x. Plus 2 seconds plus 2 seconds plus 2 seconds. I could dodge them, but that bright orange just begs to be run over and drug around the track. Besides, with the suspension I have now I think I'm stuck in the Indy class or something. haha

livenfine · Dec 27, 2003

Fox Saleen 163 said:
I'm running the MM road and track kit with Adj. lower control arms, plus a torque arm with the matching rear springs. +4* caster, -1.5* camber. Kumho 712's 225/50/16, 245/45/16. Stock sway bars for now, going with a MM adj. rear sway bar pretty soon.

Wow, sounds great. That's basically the direction I'm headed right now. I have the bracing done, except roll bar. Do you feel it made the improvements you desired and paid for? With the bilsteins you loose adjustability and they cost more, are they worth it?

PS-I think you're supposed to run between the cones ...

Fox Saleen 163 · Dec 27, 2003

Well, let me say that this is my first and only Fox Mustang. So it's the only one I can form an opinion from. Obviously it's a Saleen so it came with some decent suspension already. Which means I can't say what difference it made from stock suspension. But, it still made a huge difference from the Racecraft suspension that came on the car. I installed the suspension in stages. The front suspension one weekend, the rear the next, then the panhard bar, and finally the T/A. Each phase made an obvious difference, some more so than others. I say I got my moneys worth hands down, especially when passing Vettes and Porsches in corners that use to seriously upset my chassis.

You lose adj. on the Bilsteins, but you don't need to adjust perfection. They are firm yet not overly harsh. Do they KYB's come with a lifetime warranty? The Bil's do.

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