Progress Thread BluePrint 347 long block engine swap

rednotch said:

There selling them just announced it at pri... Don't expect deals, kind of a captive market situation, darts using that german factory to now, since Daltons in chapter 11. same as summit as those are the bpe blocks and your forgetting how much dart was price gouging when demand was there before they dropped the prices back down.. ... PE groups gutted our casting industry, like they do to everything, the aluminum industries and pretty much are entire industrial base over the last 3 decades, so until something serious changes in this country this seems to be the new norm. Everyone keeps acting like nothings wrong, but if we gotta outsource engine blocks to Germany of all places and its cheaper then doing it here, we as country are in trouble. German labor ain't cheap, there iron is better, there factories more advanced and they have stiffer regulations and higher energy cost. Here the make dumb excuses like labor costs, when its top down greed bleeding industries dry or chasing only goverment contracts so they can over charge the tax payers.

Click to expand...

Yeah I get it but BluePrint wants $2,599 or you can get a DART SHP for $2,699...crowd it going to spend that $100 every time to go with the proven block. If Blueprint would drop their price to $2,000 or so then I can see it. Their claim is the block is good for 700 fwhp and we all know the DART blocks have been well past 1,200 fwhp and live long lives at that level. I am in that limbo area where I am not pressing what I have very hard to keep things together but cannot justify $3,000 on a block (taxes and shipping) for a 500 fwhp motor that would have a 7200 rpm shift point. Its a want vs need kind of thing but I was seriously hoping they would have been sub $2,000 and I would have bought one. I know cry me a river....

I read that the Fab Dart uses has shut down though. Are we sure dark blocks are not going to stop being produced? Or at least disrupted? And when they come back, what will their price be?

AeroCoupe said:

Yeah I get it but BluePrint wants $2,599 or you can get a DART SHP for $2,699...crowd it going to spend that $100 every time to go with the proven block. If Blueprint would drop their price to $2,000 or so then I can see it. Their claim is the block is good for 700 fwhp and we all know the DART blocks have been well past 1,200 fwhp and live long lives at that level. I am in that limbo area where I am not pressing what I have very hard to keep things together but cannot justify $3,000 on a block (taxes and shipping) for a 500 fwhp motor that would have a 7200 rpm shift point. Its a want vs need kind of thing but I was seriously hoping they would have been sub $2,000 and I would have bought one. I know cry me a river....

Click to expand...

Blueprint blocks will probably hold just as well if not more then the shp, its better class 35 iron, dart even admits this talking about going to the same foundry... BP just kept it more for production stuff like the bolt sizes, summit all ready looking to change that on thiers they source threw them... Cost is cost, its made in germany, machined here by marshal and tarrifs, they all want as much profit as they can get, blue print couldn't even meet its own demand at first, and there pretty much number 1 for the crate engine market, that's a captive market where they can set the price and they did. We have the illusion of a free market these days, its too much investment and red tape to start pretty much anything but a service industry business or tech start up any more so nothings going to change any time soon, unless some well of company jumps in on a shrinking market..

Want to see a perfect example go look at lmrs sve cnc185 head they get from Steven sun, the afr rip off. They where selling it for $1299, until it became clear its the same casting from steven others where branding and asking that much just for bare as cast heads, heads you used to beable to by direct to your door for $550 a pair bare.... Some bitching and moaing, lots of denials and all the Sudden prices jumps 200 on the restock of the heads lmr, no long sold direct to the public without MOQ, nothings changed, but they will claim tarrifs or some bull when there still the same rates, the industry is just extra greedy these days, because PE pretty much owns it from supplier to retail sides now and they throw there weight around to get what they want.

I'm there with ya. I remembered the old $800 B50 block that flopped, that was supposed to be the budget upgrade, then it was the shp but prices kept climbing, your dealing with the aftermarket and even ford now, that will charge what they think can get away with, just go to any dealer and look at what's on car lots these days, You have ppl saying you get what pay for and other idioms to justify branding. Nope 90% of the PE firms are cutting costs any way they can and selling on brand recognition, and selling you garbage quality control. Dart was like 3600 during covid for an shp before ppl started saying F that and buying the China windsor blocks.. Lots of fast guys running the cheap ass China Windsor block now, just make sure you know a competent machinest to check every thing. Only company dumb enough to do an 8.2 in china would be speedmaster and there names trash in the ford community, so I doubt we will ever see a real budget upgraded 8.2 block until demand crashes after the older generations buying it age out, no ones going to pay for the tooling of it.


Dart all ready has tooling at the German founding making blocks, they had some of the sbc blocks at pri...

Sparky714 said:

Good header gasket recommendation? Are these any good, or just stick with my copper gaskets and high temp RTV? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-67933/make/ford/model/mustang/year/1989

Click to expand...

Rtv, and flat flanges, I hate changing header gaskets and never met one that didn't eventually fail, hell there O ring heads on exhaust ports now on LS stuff. If you need a gasket I would look for a MLS coated design, I think cosmetic has some for sbf's but probably $50 plus a set.


Something like these depending on port sizing.

It's going to be a few decades before we age out, and I won't care after I'm gone, anyways.

I shake my head every time I see or talk block prices, now. It hurts to read that these lower tier blocks are so much more than I paid... I'll grant that 19 years is a long time, but we're paying 50% more for 2 steps lower in block quality:

You don't want to see what I paid for my AFR 185's in 1998...dirt cheap compared to now, so yeah I get what you are saying. It looks like I just need to keep babying the car until I recover financially from building a shop (this will take a couple years) and buy a block that will then even be further over priced.

I'd guess $1,100, which is less than the $1,200 I paid, complete with valve train, if my memory serves, for AFR 165s in ~2001.

@FastDriver & @rednotch - What do you guys think of the M-6010-BOSS302 block?

@Sparky714 - my apologies for us (mostly me) derailing your thread but its kinda relevant...sorta...maybe

No hands on experience. Only drawback I've heard is they have short cylinder skirts.

My understanding is that they support a 3.5" stroke. I have also heard the cylinder skirts are short but I am not sure how short compared to a stock block. Data on the block is as follows:











Instruction Sheets:

Found this (https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/m5lp-0803-boss-340-engine-build):

During our visit to L&R Automotive of Santa Fe Springs, California, we asked owner Derek Ranney Sr. for his thoughts on Ford Racing Performance Parts' Boss 302 block and what he believes is an absolute limit for boring and stroking it for maximum performance.

In a side-by-side comparison, we learned that a stock 5.0 block has longer cylinder walls (5 1/8 inches) versus shorter holes (4 3/4 inches) in the Boss. "I think this may have been done (shorter cylinder) to allow for more crankshaft stroke," he says. "However, longer-stroke cranks (3.400) may experience problems that can include pistons coming completely out of the cylinder, piston slap, or abnormal oil consumption due to poor ring seal. We recommend 3.250 as a good maximum stroke for this block."

As far as thickness is concerned, a sonic test of both blocks proved the Boss 302 is far superior to a stocker. It will easily support bore sizes as big as 4.155 to 4.185 inches, despite Ford's advertised 4.125-inch maximum bore size.

This was from 2008 so I am not sure if they changed anything on it since then. I am going to open a chat on Ford Racing Parts and ask them what the length is.

I currently have one person in front of me on the chat line so we will see if they will provide the dimension.

Update, chat crashed so I just sent them an email. Will post up what they reply with.

AeroCoupe said:

@FastDriver & @rednotch - What do you guys think of the M-6010-BOSS302 block?

@Sparky714 - my apologies for us (mostly me) derailing your thread but its kinda relevant...sorta...maybe

Click to expand...

Other then different gaskets and bolts I don't have an issue with it, some will say the skirts are too short... They obviously never worked on a coyote motor...

Now go back to ignoring it, until it dips below $1500

From this thread, I posted the following order of 8.2 deck blocks... I still think we ought to have a sticky about aftermarket blocks that contains all the info we can find on them, but am atm too busy to do all of the research:

FastDriver said:

I still wouldn't go Coyote in a fox, even if the financial calculus favored them. So, I admit my bias. That said, is there anything wrong with the M-6010-BOSS 302 blocks? They're only $3k. I guess the competition would be against the $3.7k Dart SHP, or better yet, the $3,400 World Products Man o' War.

The other route would be to find a used aftermarket block on the marketplace. Here are the blocks I remember that can handle significant power. Of them, I believe the Dart Iron Eagle is the best of the best, but if you're open to anything, I'd imagine you can find a pretty good deal on one. Gonna try to go in order of superiority, based on my gut. Open to feedback...

Do we already have a thread that does a run down on all the aftermarket blocks with specs, how to identify, and Pros/Cons? Might be useful, at some point.

2k+ HP category:
- Dart Iron Eagle (4-bolt mains on all 5)
- World Products Man o' War (my understanding is neck-and-neck with Dart IE)

1k+ HP category:
- Dart Sportsman (4-bolt mains on middle 3. No problems making 12-1500 hp)
- SHP (Dart rated at 600hp. WTF? Still put here, because plenty of data out there with people making a LOT more. I thought near same as Sportsman)
- New Ford M-6010-BOSS Block (Short piston skirts may have trouble at 3.4"+ stroke, but apparently better cooling than R302. 1/2" 4-bolt middle-3 mains)
- SVO R302 (Siamese blocks, like the Darts & WP blocks. 7/16" 4-bolt middle-3 mains)
- A4 (non-siamese - limited bore size... Do the research beyond 4.060)

Sub 1k category:
- Original Boss (much thicker main webbing & 4-bolt mains. Rare, expensive, & unless restoring a Boss 302, fuhgettaboutit!)
- 60's 302 (2-bolt, thicker main webbing, 28 oz... right?)
- Mexican 302s (thicker main webbing, maybe not as much as the 60s)
- Stock/FRPP Sportsman blocks (50oz, generally accepted longevity at 500rwhp and 6,500 RPM or less)

Click to expand...

Noobz347 said:

If this is in-mind during the build, wouldn't you just ensure pistons that were a good match?

Click to expand...

Yes, there 363 from ford been out for years, ppl still moan about it like there building a 2k HP car. , those blocks where used in more than a few nmra cars. Only ppl moaning where parts sellers who didn't have a piston for the combo. The ford block has its set back in supporting parts costs but your buying that stuff any way.. Few mins on Google and you can get stuff like the head bolts / studs cheaper than fords kits, now stop talking about them I want the prices to drop more

FastDriver said:

From this thread, I posted the following order of 8.2 deck blocks... I still think we ought to have a sticky about aftermarket blocks that contains all the info we can find on them, but am atm too busy to do all of the research:

Click to expand...

Forgot man o war from world or who ever the hell owns the iron side of it now, but that things got alot of useless gimmicks built into the price