critique my build

[Wicked65]

A little history. I bought a 95 gt about 1 1/2 years ago with the intent of putting a 408 with boost in it. I had a few rules for this build. It had too look like it would pass CA smog, and it had to pass the sniffer. It had to be intercooled boost and be very FAST. I was pretty gung ho on doing this build untill about 2 months ago my brother got pulled over in his 98gt, and was given a smog ticket and refferd to the state ref for a cold air intake. Both of us knew it was not a CARB' legal part, but i guess i didnt expect the $500 fine that will not be reduced. So I started looking a different route. I used to have a 96 cobra. It was a great car, and i should have never gotten rid of it. Anyway. I should be picking up a 98 cobra this weekend, and i think i have most of my build figured out. (reason for the mod motor is just to look completly stock on the outside and be badass on the inside) But i thought id let the experts tell me if i was on the right path, or if i could use different parts then i was looking at.

I have been looking at the livernois short block
New Iron Block 298ci
Custom Livernois Forged Steel Stroker Crankshaft
Livernois Exclusive Mahle Forged Pistons
Mahle Rings, Locks, and Wrist Pins
Livernois Exclusive Manley H-Beam Rods w/ ARP 2000 Bolts
Clevite Tri-Armor Coated Bearings
ARP Main Studs
ARP Head studs
Cometic Head gaskets

Shorty Headers- I WILL NOT USE LONG TUBES!!!!
3in X pipe w/ high flow cats
3in Cat back

Stock intake with IMRC deletes
Accufab Single blade throttle body
Paxton Novi 2000 w/mondo bypass (8 rib) intercooler running 20-21lbs boost
SCT BA-3000 mass air????

Suspension
Team z K member
A-Arms
14-175 coilovers
Strange 10way struts
UPR full length subframe

UPR Uppers w/ solid bushings
UPR Lowers w/ solid bushings
Baseline anti roll Bar
afco springs
Strange Shocks 10 way

Drivetrain
4R70W Swap
Broader Performance Full manual Valve body
Converter stall?????

Moser 31 spline axles
Ford Trac Loc diff w/ carbon clutches
3:73 Gears probably move up to 4:10's
ARP Wheel studs

S&W 10pt Cage w/swing outs
Cobra seats
Rear Seat Delete

Fuel system
Glenns Performance twin 255's Setup
60lbs injector?

SCT XCAL 3

My GOAL for the car is to run 9.90-10.0 on slicks. The only stipulation i have, is that the car needs to be able to pass smog visual and sniffer. By pass sniffer i mean, put a tune in to pass smog. The rest of the time, i dont care. But I dont need CHP up my but over parts that are questionable. lol

With the heads, i have the option of just having them beefed up or ported and beefed up. Livernois has their stage 2 heads that flow 310intake and 275exhaust. But i have seen rwhp over 700 on stock heads, cams and intake. So i guess the question is, do i need to do all the head work, or just do springs and valves. What cams should i run? Stock, or regrinds? What stall should i do? Are 60's going to be enough injector? Will the SCT BA-3000 be enough mass air meter? If there is anything i should change, questions about the setup, or suggestions. PLEASE let me know. I stay up at night thinking about this stuff. lol

 

[mogs01gt]

I would stick with the stock stroke and do a standard .030 over or .020 over depending on how much boost you will be running. The stroke on the mod engines is already long enough.

 

[98COBRA281]

go with long tubes, shorties are a waste.....

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Few things, along with what has been said already:
- You will need ported heads and aftermarket (not reground cams) to have a good all around set-up with your goals. I doubt Livernoise stage 2's actually flow 310, seriously.
- Scrap those suspension parts that likely wont compliment each other out of the box and buy the Maximum Motorsports grip package.
- Buy a busted used old 4R70W and build it all. Stage 3 shift kit, Jerry modded valve body, all hardened shafts, +1qrt oil pan, electric fan race fluid cooler, and a 3800-4000 stall 3-piece TC.
- Why buy cobra seats? You can probalby buy a sparco or some other light as hell seat for less money.
- I'd also proly go with MMR for the shortblock, or pick up a longblock with ported heads - they have good deals.

 

[Wicked65]

go with long tubes, shorties are a waste.....

I would, but im not going to have CHP look under my car and fine me 500-10,000 bucks. Ive seen it happen, and im not willing to take the chance.

 

[98COBRA281]

I would, but im not going to have CHP look under my car and fine me 500-10,000 bucks. Ive seen it happen, and im not willing to take the chance.

bassanni mid tubes....

 

[Wicked65]

Few things, along with what has been said already:
- You will need ported heads and aftermarket (not reground cams) to have a good all around set-up with your goals. I doubt Livernoise stage 2's actually flow 310, seriously.
- Scrap those suspension parts that likely wont compliment each other out of the box and buy the Maximum Motorsports grip package.
- Buy a busted used old 4R70W and build it all. Stage 3 shift kit, Jerry modded valve body, all hardened shafts, +1qrt oil pan, electric fan race fluid cooler, and a 3800-4000 stall 3-piece TC.
- Why buy cobra seats? You can probalby buy a sparco or some other light as hell seat for less money.
- I'd also proly go with MMR for the shortblock, or pick up a longblock with ported heads - they have good deals.

Well, since i dont have a flow bench, i dont know what they flow. I can only go by what they say. B heads do flow a lot though with the dual runners. But i dont know. What suspension parts are a problem? I only ask because MM is mostly a road race company. And their Grip package is a road race setup. The 4R70W is also a electronic trani. And with out buying the bauman computer kit, the shift kit would do me no good because the trani wouldnt shift. So thats why im going manual valve body. The cobra monaco seats are a aftermarket race seat that is pretty light and $270 ea. And I race PSCA with MMR. And maybe if they were actually as fast as the rest of their class, or didnt blow their car up every couple months, or hell, make a full pass, I might use them. But until i watch them race and win, ill stick with someone else.

 

[Wicked65]

bassanni mid tubes....

Ive though about them, but, from my understanding. On cobra's, long tubes do not give the huge boost that they do on the 2v's. Mostly because the heads flow so much better then the 2v. Thats what i have been told. Plus, switching to the automatic, i dont want to have clearance issues.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

The 4R70W is also a electronic trani. And with out buying the bauman computer kit, the shift kit would do me no good because the trani wouldnt shift.

yes tell me how the 4R works because I'm totally lost

- I thought you were talking about 03/04 cobra suede seats as many people swap those.
- 310+ intake is a stage II port job on 03/04 cobra tumbler heads, and 275 exhaust is like a stage III port job on Tumbler heads. C heads should be somewhat less than that, then B heads less than C heads. I'm sure you know this - porting is good regardless of the bench test, but the 310/275 is pure propaganda.

You're welcome to have your reservations about MMR due to personal experience as it's valid - I've never seen a customer's app fail with their parts, but I admit I've never seen them race either. But as a 5.0 guy, don't come in here incorrectly lecturing me how a transmission that comes in modular stangs works when i can assemble one with my eyes closed.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Ive though about them, but, from my understanding. On cobra's, long tubes do not give the huge boost that they do on the 2v's. Mostly because the heads flow so much better then the 2v. Thats what i have been told. Plus, switching to the automatic, i dont want to have clearance issues.

If the heads are flowing better, then that means the headers will help more. This is why v6's pick up almost nothing while 4V's (like Epik's Mach 1, or a 03/04 cobra) pick up a lot from LT's.

 

[darkside03gt]

I would, but im not going to have CHP look under my car and fine me 500-10,000 bucks. Ive seen it happen, and im not willing to take the chance.

iam planing a build for next year and this is what iam affraid of out here in natzifornia. I have sill yet to see anything in writing that says chp can pop your hood but i see them doing it to ricers from time to time. i wanted to make at least 600rwhp but i doubt it will be possible since i will more then likely be forced to run a vortech aftercooler that will eventually become a restriction on boost. I have a smog hookup but that wont do me any good if i get busted. damn 5 0.

 

[Wicked65]

iam planing a build for next year and this is what iam affraid of out here in natzifornia. I have sill yet to see anything in writing that says chp can pop your hood but i see them doing it to ricers from time to time. i wanted to make at least 600rwhp but i doubt it will be possible since i will more then likely be forced to run a vortech aftercooler that will eventually become a restriction on boost. I have a smog hookup but that wont do me any good if i get busted. damn 5 0.

all they need is propable cause. Basically, they look for no front plate, or "loud exhaust", or if you have gauges in your car, thats considered "street racing stuff. So then they can do a vehicle inspection. pretty much BS..

 

[darkside03gt]

all they need is propable cause. Basically, they look for no front plate, or "loud exhaust", or if you have gauges in your car, thats considered "street racing stuff. So then they can do a vehicle inspection. pretty much BS..

chp

 

[Wicked65]

yes tell me how the 4R works because I'm totally lost

- I thought you were talking about 03/04 cobra suede seats as many people swap those.
- 310+ intake is a stage II port job on 03/04 cobra tumbler heads, and 275 exhaust is like a stage III port job on Tumbler heads. C heads should be somewhat less than that, then B heads less than C heads. I'm sure you know this - porting is good regardless of the bench test, but the 310/275 is pure propaganda.

You're welcome to have your reservations about MMR due to personal experience as it's valid - I've never seen a customer's app fail with their parts, but I admit I've never seen them race either. But as a 5.0 guy, don't come in here incorrectly lecturing me how a transmission that comes in modular stangs works when i can assemble one with my eyes closed.

Well, if you dont want to get a comment like your lost with the 4R70W, then dont tell me to do the J mod on a manual valve body mr. i can assemble one with my eyes closed... Cause you basically sounded like you didnt know anything. Obviously its a built trani, but i didnt ask that, i asked about stall. Which led me to believe you didnt even read my post. Then you tell me to do road race suspension, when i say i want to run a 10.0. then you tell me B heads arnt as good as the other heads, but if that was true, im sure john mehovitz would put something other then "b" heads on his 2100 hp 4.6 4v race car. But hell what do i know. Then i get the 5.0 guy speach, when i have owned just as many mod motor mustangs as pushrod mustangs. So how about this, unless you have 700rwhp, or run a 10.0. Or know how to do it, or can do anything but tell me how much i dont know..., you can just find some other guy to tell your great transmission stories to. LATER

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

You said critique your build, i wrote down what i'd do for 10's. Which would be a J-modded valve body - i didn't say to do it to a manual valve body. Then you said a shift kit wouldn't allow the trani to shift, i didn't assume you were referring to manually shifting - you just said shifting. Which lead me to believe you have no idea what you're talking about as well. And when i was talking about the grip set-up, i wasn't talking about street course grip - i was just describing the kit: which now that i've looked it up again is called the "Launch Box". I only recommended this it's the only one i've seen in person and have gotten good reviews from along with coming with a NHRA legal roll bar for those who don't want to pay to have a cage built. Also it's not my opinion, but rather the opinion of the mustang world in general that Tumbler port>c heads>b heads. I'm sure the 2100 hp set-up is sweet, as is the many 1400+ hp 2V set-ups there are on the west coast, all of whom could have gotten more power by going with 4V such at the ported Ford GT heads. I'd like to see the flow chart conditions where a stage II job on B heads flowed 275 exhaust - that would blow my mind and would in fact be very cool in which case you should definitely get them.
But all animosity aside, I do know the 4R70/75W very well. Perhaps better than I should know my modular engine - so that explains why I felt you were being pretentious when you were explaining to me that it's an electronic transmission. In the end, you were asking for peoples feedback - not me. So i doubt everyone's going to agree with every choice you make in the build.

As for the TC, what company are you looking into to build it?

 

[SilverBullet00]

Are you doing a return or returnless fuel system? If you are doing returnless I would get a 03/04 cobra tank with twin Ford GT pumps + other upgrades needed.

As for the motor, you might want to look at Modular Powerhouse. They have all there motors built by proline to there specs. I agree that you should stick to the stock stroke, and just go .020 over.

Also, how much is this car going to be driven on the street? I think you need to balance that out with your end goals. Is it a street/strip car or is it a race car? If you are willing to give up street driving you wont have to care about the CHP, and you can ditch the convertors and get longtubes.

As for heads, I would start with the C castings and send them to foxlake to port.

 

[Wicked65]

You said critique your build, i wrote down what i'd do for 10's. Which would be a J-modded valve body - i didn't say to do it to a manual valve body. Then you said a shift kit wouldn't allow the trani to shift, i didn't assume you were referring to manually shifting - you just said shifting. Which lead me to believe you have no idea what you're talking about as well. And when i was talking about the grip set-up, i wasn't talking about street course grip - i was just describing the kit: which now that i've looked it up again is called the "Launch Box". I only recommended this it's the only one i've seen in person and have gotten good reviews from along with coming with a NHRA legal roll bar for those who don't want to pay to have a cage built. Also it's not my opinion, but rather the opinion of the mustang world in general that Tumbler port>c heads>b heads. I'm sure the 2100 hp set-up is sweet, as is the many 1400+ hp 2V set-ups there are on the west coast, all of whom could have gotten more power by going with 4V such at the ported Ford GT heads. I'd like to see the flow chart conditions where a stage II job on B heads flowed 275 exhaust - that would blow my mind and would in fact be very cool in which case you should definitely get them.
But all animosity aside, I do know the 4R70/75W very well. Perhaps better than I should know my modular engine - so that explains why I felt you were being pretentious when you were explaining to me that it's an electronic transmission. In the end, you were asking for peoples feedback - not me. So i doubt everyone's going to agree with every choice you make in the build.

As for the TC, what company are you looking into to build it?

Alright. sorry for getting pissy. gatta love the typing misunderstadings. I have to say, i really want to learn how to buld a stoute 4R70W myself. As i know this will be the weak link in my whole setup, and will probably be taking the most abuse. Im not worried about the engine. And i know how to build the rear end. But the trani, I dont have a damn clue. And i will have to get into a tech manual or something to really figure out how to build it.

In all honesty. I really was trying to to switch from the B heads mostly because i want to keep the intake, and i really dont want to have to change all the other parts associated.
And i would really like that when i do pull my motor, everything mounts back up, and just goes really easy.

As far as converters go, i have looked at Broader performance, P.I., Edge, Spec Rite, and a couple others that i have written down somewhere. I was leaning toward broader mostly because ill be using his valvebody, and his customer service is the best i have come accross in performance companies.

MM puts out some really great parts. But most are for road race. They are a mostly corner carving company, so thats what they are good at. Even their NHRA legal cage is a road race cage. You can tell by where it mounts in the back. THis is the one im getting.

10 Point Roll Cages, 10 Point Roll Cage Race Car Dragster Chassis, Rollbars, Cages, Suspensions, Parts

I also checked out fox lake today. Im liking the stuff they have to. SO i dont know if i should go livernois or fox lake..

also thought id post these. I realize that average mod cam will never go this high. SO maybe thats where some confusion lies.

 

[Wicked65]

Are you doing a return or returnless fuel system? If you are doing returnless I would get a 03/04 cobra tank with twin Ford GT pumps + other upgrades needed.

As for the motor, you might want to look at Modular Powerhouse. They have all there motors built by proline to there specs. I agree that you should stick to the stock stroke, and just go .020 over.

Also, how much is this car going to be driven on the street? I think you need to balance that out with your end goals. Is it a street/strip car or is it a race car? If you are willing to give up street driving you wont have to care about the CHP, and you can ditch the convertors and get longtubes.

As for heads, I would start with the C castings and send them to foxlake to port.

It is a return system. Im going with Glenns performance 1000hp twin pump setup. Seems to be working well for people. I have looked at modular powerhouse, and i know they make some great power. They are a option, but honestly ill probably use fox lake or livernois.
The car is driven on the street usually fridays, weekends, and at the track about 10-12 times a year for actual events not test n tunes. And i cant give up the street. If that was a option, id go back to a 408 stroker in a notch, put twin turbo on it and forget about the mod motor stuff.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Alright. sorry for getting pissy. gatta love the typing misunderstadings.

Me too man, I've been a dick for the past two weeks for unrelated reasons - so forgive my condescending remarks. As for the tranny, keep me posted - i did a lot of research before i dropped mine and talked to a lot of knowledgeable people(although mines only rated for around 550hp). Torque converter is key as its something that often fails with high power levels and always requires you to drop the tranni even if it's warrantied for replacment. I went with spec-rite (10" 3200) because they were semi-local and I've personally seen them used in a race capacity with great reliability - but it's not a very drastic design, i.e. i would say get them if you were only spraying once and a while and could get bye with a well built single piece design. You need a three-piece. Most well known for that would obviously be PI, they have a bumpy rep in some places like Patriot does for heads - if i got one and had gobs of power a Billet cover would be a must. A personal suggestion would be to looking into DirtyDog performance, if i bought another TC it would be a 10" 3400 by him - he'll really tailor the TC to your car as he will explain a 3400 on one app is a 3000 on another. I haven't heard anything about Broader's TC's so i have nothing good or bad to say about them. Edge is a good choice as well, they aren't as light as some but i've heard of good reviews for their pricing.
As for Foxlake, they are a great choice - never heard a bad review of thier parts, only the amount of time they had to wait.
But in general, I don't think you need to worry about the 4R being the weak link. A stock 4R that's taken care of (i.e. cooler) takes more abuse than TR-3650's, and a built one can handle whatever you build it for no problem. The guy who helped me with my build who's been doing them for 10 years said the weakest parts are rated and good for 550hp (446rwhp or so) or so, but he'd bet it'd take 500rwhp+ the ground all day long with proper servicing and cooling. And that's with my relatively budget build.

 

[bhuff30]

I'm not normally one to point out or care about a signature, but yours made me laugh. It is VERY true. My 88 is quite fast for the money I have invested. The most expensive part is quite literally the nitto 555R drag radials at 150$ each. My 97GT is cheap and reliable, but not fast by any means. I imagine I'll never have a car that is both fast and relaible. lol
Sorry, I have no tech to add.

CHEAP, FAST OR RELIABLE......YOU CAN PICK 2!!!!!!!!