Exorcising a '78

LILCBRA

I started this morning by knocking out some studs
10 Year Member
Dec 6, 2005
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We briefly covered what I knew about the T5 vibration issue on the 1st or second page of this thread. He stated something about trying a shorter transmission mount. I think I supplied a couple illustrations and maybe a link or 2? And I don't remember if the tail shaft is centered or offset, but I know the engine is offset. So it would stand to reason that the tail shaft might be offset. And I think the axle is offset as well, so that all should bring the driveshaft into phase. But I think you're running a 9" right? I guess it all depends on where your pinion is in comparison to the stock 8" location. As luck would have it, I have an old 8" here along with a couple other parts that my brother in law and sister were storing for me. I'll be loading them into my truck when I leave so they're out of their hair. I can probably get some measurements if needed now if you wanted to double-check your axle in comparison to a stock axle.
 
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LILCBRA

I started this morning by knocking out some studs
10 Year Member
Dec 6, 2005
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So something occurred to me while reading Mike's Monster thread in the Fox forums. He had trouble with a vibration recently which turned out to be his converter. What I thought of was that I never asked about your pilot bushing and corresponding sleeve that needed to be installed when a T5 is swapped with a II bell housing. I believe you used a II bell, correct? Do you know how the pilot bearing sleeve was made and installed? If that sleeve isn't in line with the crankshaft (or in other words, installed crooked) it would lead to the same issue as Mike had with his converter not being engaged in the crankshaft. Just something to think about if you think it may be a concern.
 

IICrew

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Mar 29, 2020
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I read your post but did not see what your solution was. Last post is your going to try shims. I assume they worked. Do you remember what shims were needed?

I used the phone app and the angles were green but I had trouble getting repeatable readings. The back of my phone is not flat. I bought a magnetic angle finder. It's analog. It looks like the angles are identical at 2.5 degrees. This probably means it needs shimmed as under load it will be out of alignment.

Visually my headers are not parallel to the frame. Granted that may be by design but seems odd to have the drivers side closer at the rear where the steering shaft is. I did shove the engine as far right during install for steering shaft clearance this time. I gained maybe 1/8 inch more clearance. It's not shimmed but all bolts were tightened with a pry bar pushing the engine right. I never had to do that with a c4 or rad4 on the 3 other cars I've replaced engines in. 2 of which used this engine and headers. The difference is this chassis and the trans mounting. Using the t5 and conversion mount I am having vibrations.

Noticing the headers the other day I laid under the car and my trans is centered. Which raises the question. If the engine is offset, shouldn't the transmission also be offset?
 

IICrew

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II bell with a bushing made out of oilite. I found the pdf floating around somewhere online and sent that to the machine shop. It fits snug in the flywheel. The wear marks on the input shaft show its in the right place. It looked straight and true when istalling it but I did not run the engine and watch it for straightness.

It's hopping just like described in your thread. I was just curious about the offsets because I cannot really measure that at home. Nevermind within a few degrees. Shoving the trans to the right and tightening may have helped a little but I will need to make the holes elongated on the mount to get more. I just don't want to make modifications to the crossmember when others have used it without issue. I am missing something.

One other thing influencing my thinking is the passenger door has no gaps and the drivers side has average gaps. I am starting to wonder if it's twisted. I cannot find any body damage but the left tie rod was bent pretty good. Bringing me back to the centered in the tunnel question.
 

LILCBRA

I started this morning by knocking out some studs
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I don't remember what shim I used anymore. Seems like it was maybe 1-1/2 degrees? But again, I can't say with any amount of certainty. But, as mentioned in that thread, be sure that the rear suspension is loaded when checking the pinion angle. If memory serves, and it should be stated somewhere in one of the links that I think was provided somewhere, the pinion should be angled slightly so when brought under load the axle twists to bring it back into phase. So, if your measurements come to the same angle, you'll need to shim your axle a degree or 2 to compensate. And I don't think there's a magic number but a range that would be considered acceptable. Every setup is a little different and will react differently to the same changes, so you'll probably want to buy a few different sets of shims. For example, a 1 degree, 1-1/2 degree, and 2 degree and experiment from there. But I don't remember the suggested starting angle off the top of my head. Seems like it's 1-1/2 or 2 degrees?
 

extra_stout

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Aug 27, 2018
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You can measure the angle of your engine/transmission at the bellhousing. At the machined surface where the transmission is mounted, near the clutch fork opening. This should be around 2-3° transmission down.
Than you need to measure at the rear axle yoke. Sadly there is no machined surface... This should also be around 2-3° yoke up.
If you imagine two lines (one from the engine/transmission and one from the yoke): they should never "touch" each other, because than you get vibration.
At the rear axle you can use shimes (rear can also be a little more than 3° yoke up, maybe 4.5° yoke up).
At the engine/transmission you need to figure something out with the mounts...

If pilot bushing wasn't right, you would also have big problems with 1st and/or 2nd gear... do you?
Are you sure you have the right balancer and flywheel? Does the engine shake in neutral at any RPM?
Are you sure your driveshafts u-joints are in good shape?
The transmission tailshaft housing bushing (contact to the slip yoke) can also be an problem for vibrations...

Check the angles twice... perhaps a third time to be sure. And as LILCBRA said: its important to have the rear axle loaded while checking.
 

IICrew

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No recent updates because I feel like an idiot. Earlier I complained it was harsh. Hard to describe. Could feel it in the steering wheel. Just didn't "feel" right. Most of the thread is about the vibration. Maybe I should have checked the oil pan clearance? I apparently did not save my old II oil pan when I scraped my original II in the 90's. When I put this engine in the Cobra 20 years ago I obviously used the trusty old BFH and made it fit. Sorda kinda. But not really. Wish I remembered that or checked it before now.

When I installed the engine it was without the trans attached and the motor mount bolts lined up fine. Putting the trans in lifted the back thus pushing the oil pan into the rack. Even using offset rack bushings the motor mount bolts are about 3/4" off because its on the rack. Hopefully it's also be a contributing factor in the vibration with the engine sitting too high.

I have the control arms and new p/s pump and rack installed. Got too hot today so I am basically a brake job and tie rod ends away from finishing. If I wasn't waiting on an oil pan that is. Luckily Phil had one. Just gotta wait for UPS and she should be off the jack stands again!!!

As an aside. I keep reading Phil is expensive. I put off contacting him till a last resort. Although not cheap the prices he gave me were reasonable for parts that are not available. The oil pan and pickup tube cost about what a new milodon pan would cost. I called them as well but they were less than helpful. He had the last trim piece I needed as well as a factory rear spoiler center section. My hatch is off a Cobra and has the factory holes already in it. Next time I will contact him first.

I originally ordered Speedway brand control arms. The lower left is still on back order. I painted them and tried to install the ball joints in the upper arms. One was not machined correctly. The ball joint would not tighten. I called them and they were great swapping the right lower and cancelling the left then replacing with Heidts brand. I reordered the uppers and will send back 2 of them now that I have 2 good ones. I do have to say though I would not get the Speedway brand again. The heidt lowers are beefier at the spring perch and the strut rod mounting point when side by side. The Speedway uppers look nice and fit fine but I do not like the seal on the upper ball joint boots. There is a gap when the car is lifted exposing the grease in the joint. Maybe I installed the wrong but it's pretty straight forward.

Friggin damper is rusty already and she has never been in rain. Just got splashed washing off the wheel wells and it rusted.

IMG_20200625_110608561.jpg


IMG_20200704_081825908.jpg
 
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IICrew

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When I lowered the jack it collapsed into itself. There is no lip on the arm and the boot just sits flush. I don't think I messed it up but am open to suggestions.
 

2Blue2

will be trying this sex one when I can find it
Mar 5, 2019
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not really a suggestion but isn't there boot with a metal ring and a cheap one with out?
 

IICrew

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The Heidts lower has the boots with a hard bottom, assuming a metal ring inside as well as a lip on the arm to catch the boot. The Speedway uppers have a softer boot and no lip for it to catch on. I did not get a set of Heidts uppers so I don't know how they are but obviously these Speedway uppers are not right. Another instance of saving a buck costs time and more money in the long run.

Both uppers are the same. They kinda line up and look okay when compressed but accordion as soon as the jack drops. There is no way these will keep out any water.

IMG_20200704_204551217.jpg
IMG_20200704_204536554.jpg
 

IICrew

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After reading some forums this is a design of the tubular a arms. It's just the way they are. Not really intended for a daily driver. They use a stock Chrysler ball joint which was not intended for this application. I will look into different boots but it's apparently no big deal since hot rodders clean more frequently then the average user.
 
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IICrew

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That is what these ball joints are. Although I imagine they are generic. My boots looked just like those boots. They just collapse into them selves as soon as the jack is lowered. Even filling with grease wont help since the do not seal at all at the base. The grease will just squirt out. I will get a pic once on the ground. Currently waiting on the oil pan. Once it's on I can wrap up steering rack and sway bar and she is drivable.