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First start up using megasquirt.. 1992 5.0.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blucifer99
  • Start date Start date Mar 2, 2019
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Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 27, 2019
#141
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #141
i guess it helps if i adjust my id;e screw back up to a decent idle and not 450rpm LOL f**K me this is stressfull
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
10 Year Member
Apr 6, 2011
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Mar 27, 2019
#142
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #142
chillax man, what does the WB do when you get on the throttle? it may need you to adjust the VE table. get a datalog and i will help, text me around 4pm and I can talk you through the process.
 

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 27, 2019
#143
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #143
first one is cold start from today.... started on own but could touch throttle it would die..
second one i redjusted my throttle body screw and it helped alittle..
3rd one is just now i got my idle valve at 20is during idle by adjusting my tb screw until it met the 20% on idle now i can touch the throttle and it doesnt die.. doesnt die when i lift either... i think my widebands reading around 13.5-13.8 at no throttle and its all over like 15.00 16.00 when i touch the gas and it jumps up higher when i lift and then plains out at 13.8-14.02 when it settles... now i kno i gotta recalibrate my tps cause its high from me adjusting the tb screw
 

Attachments

  • 2019-03-27_12.42.44.msl-march27 made adju to idle duty%.msl
    2019-03-27_12.42.44.msl-march27 made adju to idle duty%.msl
    5.6 MB · Views: 154
  • 2019-03-27_13.22.27.msl-adjusted tps... march 27 turned idle screw in more.msl
    2019-03-27_13.22.27.msl-adjusted tps... march 27 turned idle screw in more.msl
    310 KB · Views: 148
  • 2019-03-27_13.30.19.msl-restart adjusting idle screw.msl
    2019-03-27_13.30.19.msl-restart adjusting idle screw.msl
    2.6 MB · Views: 141

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 28, 2019
#144
  • Mar 28, 2019
  • #144
hey steve... do you know much about how the diverter valve works.... the one that supplies air to the heads and cats... since my tad and tab solenoids arnt being controlled by the megasquirt... does the diverter need vacuum to pass the air to the heads or cats?.... im tryin to figure out if i should just run a hose from the smog pump to the cats.. or if i can just leave it as it is if it doesnt need vacuum to feed the cats... im tryin to save myself the hassle of pulling off hoses and checking which way its blowing without vacuum present LOL yes im lazy and would much rather spend my time dialing in VE tables and getting prepared for our first tuning class LOL... Im hoping without vacuum being present it automatically dumps air to the cats and not the heads Fingers crossed
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
10 Year Member
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Mar 28, 2019
#145
  • Mar 28, 2019
  • #145
Hmm good question.... @jrichker knows im sure
 
Reactions: Blucifer99

jrichker

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Mar 28, 2019
#146
  • Mar 28, 2019
  • #146
Blucifer99 said:
hey steve... do you know much about how the diverter valve works.... the one that supplies air to the heads and cats... since my tad and tab solenoids arnt being controlled by the megasquirt... does the diverter need vacuum to pass the air to the heads or cats?.... im tryin to figure out if i should just run a hose from the smog pump to the cats.. or if i can just leave it as it is if it doesnt need vacuum to feed the cats... im tryin to save myself the hassle of pulling off hoses and checking which way its blowing without vacuum present LOL yes im lazy and would much rather spend my time dialing in VE tables and getting prepared for our first tuning class LOL... Im hoping without vacuum being present it automatically dumps air to the cats and not the heads Fingers crossed
Click to expand...

Start here....

Thermactor Air System
Some review of how it works...

Revised 26-Jun-2105 to clarify operation of TAB & TAD solenoids

The Thermactor air pump (smog pump) supplies air to the heads or catalytic converters. This air helps break down the excess HC (hydrocarbons) and CO (carbon monoxide). The air supplied to the catalytic converters helps create the catalytic reaction that changes the HC & CO into CO2 and water vapor. Catalytic converters on 5.0 Mustangs are designed to use the extra air provided by the smog pump. Without the extra air, the catalytic converters will clog and fail.

The Thermactor air pump draws air from an inlet filter in the front of the pump. The smog pump puts air into the heads when the engine is cold and then into the catalytic converters when it is warm. The air provided by the air pump serves to help consume any unburned hydrocarbons by supplying extra oxygen to the catalytic process. With a warm engine, the computer operates on closed loop mode, taking input from all the sensors.

The Thermactor control valves serve to direct the flow. The first valve, TAB (Thermactor Air Bypass) or AM1 valve) either dumps air to the atmosphere or passes it on to the second valve. The computer tells the Thermactor Air System to open the Bypass valve at WOT (wide open throttle) minimizing engine drag. This dumps the pump's output to the atmosphere, and reduces the parasitic drag caused by the smog pump to about 2-4 HP at WOT. The Bypass valve also opens during deceleration to reduce or prevent backfires.

The second valve, TAD (Thermactor Air Diverter valve or AM2 valve) directs it to the heads or the catalytic converters. Check valves located after the TAD solenoid prevent hot exhaust gases from damaging the Diverter control valve or air pump in case of a backfire.

Code 44 RH side air not functioning.
Code 94 LH side air not functioning.

How the O2 sensors affect the operation of the Thermactor Air System.
The computer uses the change in the O2 sensor readings to detect operation of the Thermactor control valves. When the dump valve opens, it reduces the O2 readings in the exhaust system. Then it closes the dump valve and the O2 readings increase. By toggling the dump valve (TAB), the computer tests for the 44/94 codes.

Failure mode is usually due to a clogged air crossover tube, where one or both sides of the tube clog with carbon. The air crossover tube mounts on the back of the cylinder heads and supplies air to each of the Thermactor air passages cast into the cylinder heads. When the heads do not get the proper air delivery, they set codes 44 & 94, depending on which passage is clogged. It is possible to get both 44 & 94, which would suggest that the air pump or control valves are not working correctly, or the crossover tube is full of carbon or missing.




Computer operation & control for the Thermactor Air System.
Automobile computers use current sink technology. They do not source power to any relay, solenoid or actuator like the IAC, fuel pump relay, or fuel injectors. Instead the computer provides a ground path for the positive battery voltage to get back to the battery negative terminal. That flow of power from positive to negative is what provides the energy to make the IAC, fuel pump relay, or fuel injectors work. No ground provided by the computer, then the actuators and relays don't operate.

One side of the any relay/actuator/solenoid in the engine compartment will be connected to a red wire that has 12-14 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side will have 12-14 volts when the relay/actuator/solenoid isn't turned on. Once the computer turns on the clamp side, the voltage on the computer side of the wire will drop down to 1 volt or less.

In order to test the TAD/TAB solenoids, you need to ground the white/red wire on the TAB solenoid or the light green/black wire on the TAD solenoid. The TAB and TAD solenoid are located on the passenger side shock strut tower. Uneducated owners sometimes remove them to get more HP. This does not work, it just causes 81 & 82 codes.

For 94-95 cars: the colors are different. The White/Red wire (TAB control) is White/Orange (Pin 31 on the PCM). The Green/Black wire (TAD control) should be Brown (pin 34 at the PCM). Thanks to HISSIN50 for this tip.

Testing the system:

To test the computer, you can use a test light across the TAB or TAD wiring connectors and dump the codes. When you dump the codes, the computer does a self test that toggles every relay/actuator/solenoid on and off. When this happens, the test light will flicker.

Disconnect the big hose from smog pump: with the engine running you should feel air output. Reconnect the smog pump hose & apply vacuum to the first vacuum controlled valve: Its purpose is to either dump the pump's output to the atmosphere or pass it to the next valve.

The next vacuum controlled valve directs the air to either the cylinder heads when the engine is cold or to the catalytic converter when the engine is warm. Disconnect the big hoses from the back side of the vacuum controlled valve and start the engine. Apply vacuum to the valve and see if the airflow changes from one hose to the next.

The two electrical controlled vacuum valves mounted on the rear of the passenger side wheel well turn the vacuum on & off under computer control. Check to see that both valves have +12 volts on the red wire. Then ground the white/red wire and the first solenoid should open and pass vacuum. Do the same thing to the light green/black wire on the second solenoid and it should open and pass vacuum.

Remember that the computer does not source power for any actuator or relay, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

The computer provides the ground to complete the circuit to power the solenoid valve that turns the
vacuum on or off. The computer is located under the passenger side kick panel. Remove the kick panel & the cover over the computer wiring connector pins. Check Pin 38 Solenoid valve #1 that provides vacuum to the first Thermactor control valve for a switch from 12-14 volts to 1 volt or less. Do the same with pin 32 solenoid valve #2 that provides vacuum to the second Thermactor control valve. Starting the engine with the computer jumpered to self test mode will cause all the actuators to toggle on and off. If after doing this and you see no switching of the voltage on and off, you can start testing the wiring for shorts to ground and broken wiring. An Ohm check to ground with the computer connector disconnected & the solenoid valves disconnected should show open circuit between the pin 32 and ground and again on pin 38 and ground. In like manner, there should be less than 1 ohm between pin 32 and solenoid valve #2 and pin 38 & Solenoid valve #1.

If after checking the resistance of the wiring & you are sure that there are no wiring faults, start looking at the solenoid valves. If you disconnect them, you can jumper power & ground to them to verify operation. Power & ground supplied should turn on the vacuum flow, remove either one and the vacuum should stop flowing.

Typical resistance of the solenoid valves is in the range of 20-70 Ohms.

Theory of operation:
Catalytic converters consist of two different types of catalysts: Reduction and Oxidation.
The Reduction catalyst is the first converter in a 5.0 Mustang, and the Oxidation converter is the second converter. The Oxidation converter uses the extra air from the smog pump to burn the excess HC. Aftermarket converters that use the smog pump often combine both types of catalysts in one housing. Since all catalytic reactions depend on heat to happen, catalytic converters do not work as efficiently with long tube headers. The extra length of the long tubes reduces the heat available to operate the O2 sensors and the catalytic converters. That will cause emissions problems, and reduce the chances of passing an actual smog test.


Now for the Chemistry...
"The reduction catalyst is the first stage of the catalytic converter. It uses platinum and rhodium to help reduce the NOx emissions. When an NO or NO2 molecule contacts the catalyst, the catalyst rips the nitrogen atom out of the molecule and holds on to it, freeing the oxygen in the form of O2. The nitrogen atoms bond with other nitrogen atoms that are also stuck to the catalyst, forming N2. For example:

2NO => N2 + O2 or 2NO2 => N2 + 2O2

The oxidation catalyst is the second stage of the catalytic converter. It reduces the unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide by burning (oxidizing) them over a platinum and palladium catalyst. This catalyst aids the reaction of the CO and hydrocarbons with the remaining oxygen in the exhaust gas. For example:

2CO + O2 => 2CO2

There are two main types of structures used in catalytic converters -- honeycomb and ceramic beads. Most cars today use a honeycomb structure." Quote courtesy of How Stuff Works (HowStuffWorks "Catalysts")

What happens when there is no extra air from the smog pump...
As engines age, the quality of tune decreases and wear causes them to burn oil. We have all seem cars that go down the road puffing blue or black smoke from the tailpipe. Oil consumption and poor tune increase the amount of HC the oxidation catalyst has to deal with. The excess HC that the converters cannot oxidize due to lack of extra air becomes a crusty coating inside the honeycomb structure. This effectively reduces the size of the honeycomb passageways and builds up thicker over time and mileage. Continuous usage under such conditions will cause the converter to fail and clog. The extra air provided by the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) is essential for the oxidation process. It oxidizes the added HC from oil consumption and poor tune and keeps the HC levels within acceptable limits.

Newer catalytic converters do not use the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) because they are designed to work with an improved computer system that runs leaner and cleaner
They add an extra set of O2 sensors after the catalytic converters to monitor the oxygen and HC levels. Using this additional information, the improved computer system monitors the health and efficiency of the catalytic converters. If the computer cannot compensate for the added load of emissions due to wear and poor tune, the catalytic converters will eventually fail and clog. The periodic checks (smog inspections) are supposed to help owners keep track of problems and get them repaired. Use them on an 86-95 Mustang and you will slowly kill them with the pollutants that they are not designed to deal with.


Code 45 & 46 are very uncommon, this is the first time in 19+ years here at Stangnet that I have seen them posted.

The TAD solenoid and its plumbing are the probable source since it appears that the TAD solenoid is stuck open during self-test. Check for vacuum at the Diverter valve when running the self-test routine.
 

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 28, 2019
#147
  • Mar 28, 2019
  • #147
I figured it out. Diverter valve closed goes to the cats. It needs vacuum to open to pass to the heads. So running megasquirt my air pumps feeding the cats.. It needs vacuum to lift the diaphram to go to the heads. So no need to remove it cause its not feeding the heads. Shibby
 
Last edited: Mar 29, 2019

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 28, 2019
#148
  • Mar 28, 2019
  • #148
Oh amd the valve just after the air pump also needs vacuum to dump air to atmosphere. So its gonna be feeding my cats either way. Thanks F-in god lol. Still gonna have to remove it all tho. Make room for the stu stu stu psssssshhhhhh
 

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 29, 2019
#149
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #149
a91what said:
Hmm good question.... @jrichker knows im sure
Click to expand...

there ya go steve LOL im actually proud of this datalog... idles alittle high on cold start but its all good that can be tamed.... but to me this datalog is the best one ive ever taken of this car running... holds idle beautifully afr is pretty darn stable.... i dont gotta talk it up the datalog speaks volumes LOL so lemme kno how i did and what you think... cause me personally i think this cars ready for some driving
 

Attachments

  • 2019-03-29_14.13.35.msl-march29th resorted back to VEtable 1 Tps adju... PWM% turned down.msl
    2019-03-29_14.13.35.msl-march29th resorted back to VEtable 1 Tps adju... PWM% turned down.msl
    6.3 MB · Views: 157

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
10 Year Member
Apr 6, 2011
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Mar 29, 2019
#150
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #150
yup looks like a stable idle datalog, what did you adjust in the tune?
 

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 29, 2019
#151
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #151
a91what said:
yup looks like a stable idle datalog, what did you adjust in the tune?
Click to expand...

first i changed out my tps recalibrated that... then i fired it up let it warm up.... got my idle screw set and adjusted my Ve table 39kpa to 52 with the lower cells at 53 .. also i reverted back to blucifer REV1.0.2 fuel table and started fresh also dialed in my PWM duty% in..
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
10 Year Member
Apr 6, 2011
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Hillsborough county
Mar 29, 2019
#152
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #152
so you made some very minor fuel changes and your done messing with the mechanicals right? everytime you mess with the mechanical settings on the TB you throw the tune off.
 

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 29, 2019
#153
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #153
a91what said:
so you made some very minor fuel changes and your done messing with the mechanicals right? everytime you mess with the mechanical settings on the TB you throw the tune off.
Click to expand...

Yes im done with the mechanical part.. Just got my idle to match a pwm% of 20.1 at idle and thats all i did. Everything else was adjusted in the tune. The tb was adjusted before i did any messing with the tune
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
10 Year Member
Apr 6, 2011
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Mar 29, 2019
#154
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #154
OK but you didnt actually adjust anything except some minor fuel changes. all the idle settings are the same as the previous tunes correct?
 

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 29, 2019
#155
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #155
a91what said:
OK but you didnt actually adjust anything except some minor fuel changes. all the idle settings are the same as the previous tunes correct?
Click to expand...

Everything is the same except for the pwm%cranking duty steps.. Cause remember it wouldnt start without me holdin the throttle. So u said to adjust those to get it to fire up without throttle. So i did lol. Ill post my tune
 

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 29, 2019
#156
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #156
a91what said:
OK but you didnt actually adjust anything except some minor fuel changes. all the idle settings are the same as the previous tunes correct?
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • 2019-03-29_16.23.35.msq-blucifer march 29th.msq
    2019-03-29_16.23.35.msq-blucifer march 29th.msq
    118.6 KB · Views: 125

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 29, 2019
#157
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #157
so i think now i have to adjust the closed loop idle target rpm curve to get the idle id want on cold start.. since its set to 1300 1220 1140 1060 980 900 863 825.. cause from my datalog i can see it idled right in that area.. and pretty dang close to the target too.. so im just spit balling here.. i was thinkin of gettin a target of 1220 on the (40*) to 825 on the (180*) that would be more of a better idle kind of like the stock ecu.. because 1300 on start up seems kinda high to me.. i still havnt touched my warmup enrichments or after starts yet. that why im askin..
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
10 Year Member
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Mar 29, 2019
#158
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #158
Yup I suggest 1200 full cold and hold 1000 until 120*
 

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 29, 2019
#159
  • Mar 29, 2019
  • #159
a91what said:
Yup I suggest 1200 full cold and hold 1000 until 120*
Click to expand...

1200 1140 1080 1020 1000 1000 863 825 thats the pattern im gonna try to follow
 
Reactions: a91what

Blucifer99

I only understand every 3rd word
Jul 15, 2018
466
31
38
Port Mcnicoll Ontario
Mar 30, 2019
#160
  • Mar 30, 2019
  • #160
Is there any difference between firmware 3.3.1 and 3.4.2? Because i just noticed that my firmware version is 3.3.1 and im wondering if its worth updating the firmware on my ms.. Also the diy site isnt clear on what to unhook on the car before updating firmware.. Just says unhook coils/ignition and have current tune open..
 
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