Full Bolton 93 Notch vs lightly modded 97 Cobra video!

[mob]

Nope, first of all if he started from 40 with 3.73's, he would have had to shift sooner to third and would have gotten passed sooner. All them shifts dont help during a race between cars with half ass similar HP. There is an optimal gear for different setups, 3.73's wouldnt have been it here. Hell MOST guys with the same mods with 3.73's dont even run the same track times, or they will run the same track times and then get passed on the highway. My friend with his bolton 87 GT with 3.08's used to pull stock heads and cam 5.0's that had gears all the time.

He had a notch with a carb 302 swap, 3.73's and such, it felt fast but only ran low 9's in the 1/8 at 78 MPH or so. He had an 87 GT with boltons and 3.08's after that, it felt so much slower but ran 8.4's@82 MPH, go figure. Both cars had E7 heads and stock cams, the carb notch had an Edelbrock intake, the GT had a stocker.

So are you saying higher gear is also quicker in the 1/4 mile???

Either way, track or highway, I think gears would help out, you might have to shift sooner but your still pulling twice as hard in each gear, and your not going to top out 5th gear. not only did my 60' drop in the 1/4 mile but I also picked up 1 mph when I went from 3.08's to 3.73, tell your friend to drive to orlando and i'll race him

You dont have a stock cam either. It's gonna be soggy down low and want to rev higher, so it will respond to gears differently.

If the notch in the video had 3.73's, he wouldnt have been able to start from second at 40 at a good RPM and the race speed would have had to change otherwise he would lose and if the race changed thats a whole different bag of worms to dicuss.

This is true, but if he had 3.73's 3rd gear would have been the best gear and it would have pulled hard, and gotten in the powerband quicker, especially with the stock cam, it wont be a dog at the lower rpm's.

Just how I see it, I dont know much though, so im probably wrong.

 

[25thmustang]

A friend of mine went no faster with 3.73s than with 3.08s... The car was at the top of 3rd with the 3.08s and not the top of 4th with the 3.73s and it didnt see any gains. 13.1s or so at 102 with both gears!

 

[mob]

Yea with the 3.08's id be at the top of 3rd, with 3.73's im at middle of 4th.

But before gears I was running a 2.2 60' 14.2@98mph With gears alone, I got the 60' to 2.0, 13.8@99mph. Now it could just be the driveing that i got the 60' down, but I didnt do anything but gears and thats a pretty good drop.

Every cars is different.

 

[25thmustang]

Thats exactly it, every car is different. This guys car didnt like the gears for some reason. My car loved them (auto went from 15.3 to 14.9) as well as most other peoples. In your case looked like the gears helped you out of the hole, as your mph didnt move much. This could be due to better track prep, or a ton of other things.

I just know from my highway experience (very limited) that my friends stock geared car (MUCH slower than mine) doesnt get beat by a lot when we go from a roll with him in 2nd and me in 3rd!

 

[Speeds8erM-1]

So are you saying higher gear is also quicker in the 1/4 mile???

Either way, track or highway, I think gears would help out, you might have to shift sooner but your still pulling twice as hard in each gear, and your not going to top out 5th gear. not only did my 60' drop in the 1/4 mile but I also picked up 1 mph when I went from 3.08's to 3.73, tell your friend to drive to orlando and i'll race him




This is true, but if he had 3.73's 3rd gear would have been the best gear and it would have pulled hard, and gotten in the powerband quicker, especially with the stock cam, it wont be a dog at the lower rpm's.

Just how I see it, I dont know much though, so im probably wrong.

Looking at your ET and mph he would beat you from a roll and a stop and probably pretty bad at that and he is on a stock cam. You might hop out but then you would get passed. Alot of people with gears and all these mods dont run what they could have ran with 3.08's so they assume the gears are making a difference. It would for sure be slower on the highway with his setup and 3.73's. I had the same combo as him with 3.55's in my 88 GT and is blew goats on the highway.

40 roll in second gear is OPTIMAL for his setup at the RPM he is at, with 3.73's, it would have been like 3900 RPM's or so, NOT OPTIMAL, not with the FLAT ass powerband of that setup.

Most of the faster bolton cars with gears are launching off the limiter on slicks and pulling high 1.6 low 1.7 60 fts and about the same MPH. Take the 60 ft down by that much in my friend's notch and it runs the same ET as them. Those are the EXTREME cars though.

 

[FastDriver]

Nope, first of all if he started from 40 with 3.73's, he would have had to shift sooner to third and would have gotten passed sooner.

Let's just disagree then and let it go. He may have to shift sooner, but I think that the added acceleration throughout all of 2nd gear will more than make up for the early shift. That's exactly why shifting sooner from first to second in the 1/4 doesn't hurt a car. The only advantage in numerically higher gearing is the ability to get into your powerband more quickly. You don't lose power though.

Chris

 

[Speeds8erM-1]

Let's just disagree then and let it go. He may have to shift sooner, but I think that the added acceleration throughout all of 2nd gear will more than make up for the early shift. That's exactly why shifting sooner from first to second in the 1/4 doesn't hurt a car. The only advantage in numerically higher gearing is the ability to get into your powerband more quickly. You don't lose power though.

Chris

He would be in the powerband for less period of time. If gears automatically help from a roll then why not put some 5.14's in it and ago? Look what happened when he got into fourth, he got passed. One of the worst things that you can do on a roll race is have to shift RIGHT AFTER you floor it, kills momentum, especially against a car with more peak HP/

We did these races plenty of times with my friend's 87 GT, because he had a set of 3.73's sitting on his dresser that he wasnt sure he wanted to put in.

 

[Speeds8erM-1]

http://media.putfile.com/87GTvs89GTfromaroll

There is a video of 3.08's vs 3.73's from a second gear roll from years ago. The 87 GT did have headers and pulleys though over the other car but the headers arent worth much, the pulleys are worth a few hp. He didnt have a passenger in the 3.73 car though. Look how he hops out at first.

 

[FastDriver]

Ok fine.... don't let it go. I never said gears helped in a race from a roll... Rather, I said they don't, but they don't hurt either. So of course noone puts 5.14s in for highway racing, but they'd do just fine until they drop out of the powerband going into 5th.

The right answer to any specific race depends on where they will be in their respective powerbands. You know 5.14s in 3rd gear are nearly identical to 3.55s in 2nd. Who's going to win that race? See what I mean? When the gears don't line up so perfectly, it depends upon the velocity that you start the race: Generally, the idenctical car with a shorter overall gear is going to jump out and then get reeled back in, then jump out again and get reeled in and passed again as they alternate through differing parts of the powerband.

I'm not sure what your video shows other than a car with more power outrunning a car with less power and gears. I think that doesn't prove anything.

I think this is a fairly obvious application of high school physics, and you have your own experiences to the contrary. Are we really going to get anywhere with this?

Chris

 

[Speeds8erM-1]

Ok fine.... don't let it go. I never said gears helped in a race from a roll... Rather, I said they don't, but they don't hurt either. So of course noone puts 5.14s in for highway racing, but they'd do just fine until they drop out of the powerband going into 5th.

The right answer to any specific race depends on where they will be in their respective powerbands. You know 5.14s in 3rd gear are nearly identical to 3.55s in 2nd. Who's going to win that race? See what I mean? When the gears don't line up so perfectly, it depends upon the velocity that you start the race: Generally, the idenctical car with a shorter overall gear is going to jump out and then get reeled back in, then jump out again and get reeled in and passed again as they alternate through differing parts of the powerband.

I'm not sure what your video shows other than a car with more power outrunning a car with less power and gears. I think that doesn't prove anything.

I think this is a fairly obvious application of high school physics, and you have your own experiences to the contrary. Are we really going to get anywhere with this?

Chris

The car in the video doesnt make THAT much more power than the other car and has two people vs one. 3.73 car jumps out and gets passed as soon as he hits third, because the other car is still accelerating in second. It is relative to a point like you say though with regards to where you start from. If the notch had 3.73's, he would have had to start from a lower speed or he would have lost worse, if he had started from a lower speed then we wouldnt be talking about the race in question. Look at 03 Cobras, almost none of them change their rear gears because they have a FLAT powerband, you only need so much gear for a particular powerband to be all around good.

Im not the only one with experiances like this, 25th posted similar experiences. I have plenty more videos of bolton stuff racing each other but it's not online. I also have a video I found online of two 96 Cobras racing, one with 4.10's, one with 3.73's, the 3.73 car pulled out to 3/4 of a car from a 40 roll, the 4.10 car one by a 1.5 cars from a 15 roll.

The whole gears are the best thing ever came from track stuff and is spouted off constantly on the net but doesnt always carry over to real life results.

 

[mob]

i'll meet you guys half way and we'll race, ill probably lose judging by his 1/8 time and mine, but id like to see how the 3.73's compare to the 3.08's on the highway and on his car from a stop.

 

[Speeds8erM-1]

i'll meet you guys half way and we'll race, ill probably lose judging by his 1/8 time and mine, but id like to see how the 3.73's compare to the 3.08's on the highway and on his car from a stop.

It would be interesting as these days there arent alot of mild moded foxes out racing anymore around here. You are a good 400 plus miles away though LOL

What are your 1/8 times anyway?

 

[mob]

It would be interesting as these days there arent alot of mild moded foxes out racing anymore around here. You are a good 400 plus miles away though LOL

What are your 1/8 times anyway?

dman 400? I knew you knew the guy with the black evo so I thought you were alittle closer since hes been to speedworld.

My 1/8 is [email protected]

 

[Speeds8erM-1]

dman 400? I knew you knew the guy with the black evo so I thought you were alittle closer since hes been to speedworld.

My 1/8 is [email protected]

Chris has never taken the Evo to Speed World and raced, well he did run it with the stock turbo along time ago at a 1/4 mile, dunno where, hasnt been down there at the track since it was built either time though. He has been down to Orlando and such racing though.

Pensacola is way up here. Thats your 1/8 time on slicks? 1.80 60 ft?

 

[Foxfan88]

the biggest difference in gears are it gets your RPMs in the powerband alot faster. the actualy torque feel isnt all that much. At first it is like wow, then as you drive longer and drive more gear stangs it doesnt really make much of a difference.

I know a guy with a 5 speed 92 gt, just has minor bolt ons, CAI, e-fen, TB and 3.55 gears and thats about it. At the tire i rode in the car, i had more bolt ons and 3.90s and my car was faster than his. but when i rode it in it always seemed faster. he would would just plum FRY em in 1st and second, like we were on ice. I dont know why that car only ran a 14.9, everytime i rode in it, it was just plain fast feeling. with pretty much a stock 175k engine and 355s :O

its all in how you drive, i think the guy made it seem fast. he was an excellent shifter and shifted super fast. I havent seen anyone IRL or on the the internet who shifted as fast as he did. maybe it was just one of those demon stangs that are just mysteriously fast....

 

[mob]

Chris has never taken the Evo to Speed World and raced, well he did run it with the stock turbo along time ago at a 1/4 mile, dunno where, hasnt been down there at the track since it was built either time though. He has been down to Orlando and such racing though.

Pensacola is way up here. Thats your 1/8 time on slicks? 1.80 60 ft?

yea 1.8 60' on slicks

Heres 2 videos i took today, one from a 2nd gear roll from 40mph, and the second video is 3rd gear from a 40mph roll, I still had alot of gear left in 2nd gear to pull. I think it wo uld be a good race if we met up.
(youll need lastest version of quicktime if it dosent work)

heres from 2nd
http://media.putfile.com/40rollgear

Heres from 3rd
http://media.putfile.com/40roll2nd

 

[97gtblue]

slow car nationals

 

[Speeds8erM-1]

yea 1.8 60' on slicks

Heres 2 videos i took today, one from a 2nd gear roll from 40mph, and the second video is 3rd gear from a 40mph roll, I still had alot of gear left in 2nd gear to pull. I think it wo uld be a good race if we met up.
(youll need lastest version of quicktime if it dosent work)

heres from 2nd
http://media.putfile.com/40rollgear

Heres from 3rd
http://media.putfile.com/40roll2nd

Were you ghost riding the wheel? LOL Must have a good alignment to trust the fox with no hand on the wheel.

Geared Mustangs always feel faster without a doubt but that doesnt always translate in races. Now once you start changing things that change the rpm band of the engine or are trying to launch off the limiter on big slicks, things go differently.

Hell even a heads and cam LS1 making quite a bit more power than another friend's cam only LS1 with a blown head gasket didnt pull that much on the highway with 4.10's vs 3.42's. Second gear roll, same transmission, same engine, similar rpm range, 4.10 car had more HP. The 4.10's would be better from down low or at the track though.

 

[Speeds8erM-1]

slow car nationals

Update your signature and maybe your screen name you slow rice douche!

 

[mob]

Were you ghost riding the wheel? LOL Must have a good alignment to trust the fox with no hand on the wheel.

Geared Mustangs always feel faster without a doubt but that doesnt always translate in races. Now once you start changing things that change the rpm band of the engine or are trying to launch off the limiter on big slicks, things go differently.

Hell even a heads and cam LS1 making quite a bit more power than another friend's cam only LS1 with a blown head gasket didnt pull that much on the highway with 4.10's vs 3.42's. Second gear roll, same transmission, same engine, similar rpm range, 4.10 car had more HP. The 4.10's would be better from down low or at the track though.

haha no man, i had the gf in the passenger seat and her brother in the back recording. My left hand is on the bottom left of the wheel. Right hand is shifting.