H/C/I combo

D0cks · Sep 6, 2004

what would be a good HCI combo that will get me into and mabye over 350Rwhp? and for my second question, why would people want to put a 351W in their mustangs if they are rated for less HP? does the hp raise alot faster then the 302 once u start to modify it?

crunchie12268 · Sep 6, 2004

The Holley System Max Package puts out 350hp at the flywheel I think. That with some exhaust, underdrives and small things would put you at that mark. Also, if you wanted to put things together I think AFR 165 or 185 Heads, GT40 Intake, Isky Cam, and some smaller things like some larger injectors, and meter...T/B, you would also need a different fuel pump. I have just always heard that the packages like the Holley System Max are less trouble free because they were designed to work together.... but I think putting together your own combo is more rewarding, and in the end more powerful. Anyways, the 351 can be bored out more than the 302 obviously in turn making more power, and TORQUE.

D0cks · Sep 6, 2004

hey thanx for the reply. How are those Trickflow R series heads? how do they stack up against the World Windsor Jr. heads?

maverick0716 · Sep 6, 2004

A 350 rhwp naturally aspirated 302 wouldn't be very streetable. It would also have to be a high rpm screamer and have no low end. If you want that much hp, a much better option would be to get a H/I/C combo and then supercharge it. Then you'll have over 400 rwhp and it will still be streetable.

These are the parts I think you would need (at least) to make over 350 rwhp: AFR 185 cylinder heads, Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake, huge cam of some sort with mega duration and lift, roller rockers, 30# injectors, a high flowing fuel pump, Long tube headers (maybe 1 3/4"), off road h pipe, high flowing mufflers......those are the main ones anyway, I may have missed some.

crunchie12268 · Sep 6, 2004

I don't know if that is totally true. I am pushing around 285hp to the Rear wheels and I have a very mild combo. I bet you could get 350hp and keep it very streetable. But, supercharging it would definetly get you the power you want. It is true that with the Trick Flow R stuff that you are going to kill bottom end, 2500 to 6500 is what the R is at I think. Then you would need to strengthen up your bottom end for reliable power. I think with a good set of AFR's, a good intake, T/B, injectors, mass air meter, gears, cam, underdrives, and various other small components, you could make those numbers. But I could be wrong.

Grn92LX · Sep 6, 2004

350rwhp? Simple. If this is a stock shortblock car, you WILL need to notch the pistons. A set of afr 185's, rpm 2 intake and a custom cam will be more than enough. Change the rev limiter to allow the car to be taken to 6500ish. You'll need a 75mm TB, 1 3/4" longtubes and at least 30lb injectors. Its that simple and it will be perfectly streetable. A dude on here, 86cobra, has a 360+rwhp 306 and its perfectly streetable making 300 ft/lbs of tq by 3000 rpm. Its just that simple if your willing to do what it takes.

NotchRocket92 · Sep 6, 2004

AFR vs TFS

According to the flowcharts on both websites the TFS Twisted Wedge heads outflow the AFR 165s by just a tiny bit.

crunchie12268 · Sep 6, 2004

But isn't the size of the Combustion Chambers what really seperates AFR from the rest? They put your compression up there around 9.8 or something, that is why they make the power they do. Maybe not, but I know the AFR's are some good heads.

tomst9 · Sep 6, 2004

i read in a hot rod magazine that for a naturally aspirated engine, your exhaust primary tube should be no larger than the heads of your ehaust valve. Unless he is going supercharged, would 1 3/4 headers be entirley way to big? I used to have 1 3/4 header on my combo and when i switched over to 1 5/8 i felt i big difference in low end torque.

runningmole · Sep 6, 2004

AFR's have their flow #s w/ much smaller port volumes. You can't go wrong w/ AFRs or TW heads. Both will support lots of power

Nottoofast50 · Sep 7, 2004

347 or 331 with some decent heads and intake should get you there and be a lot more streetable then the 302 route

mob · Sep 7, 2004

Trick Flow.

shorty1993 · Sep 7, 2004

trickflow also sells a package they says makes 350hp/370ft.lbs on a 306. so with that combo and supporting bolt ons it should be no problem. after you get that on there, spray the hell out it. should be all the power you need.

maverick0716 · Sep 7, 2004

The claims of 350 hp from the manufacturers are ALWAYS at the flywheel. 350 fwhp is around 300 rwhp....that is fairly common in a H/C/I 302 combo. I have never seen a naturally aspirated 302 with over 350 rwhp (dyno proven). Even on this site I haven't seen one.

shorty1993 · Sep 7, 2004

maverick0716 said:
The claims of 350 hp from the manufacturers are ALWAYS at the flywheel. 350 fwhp is around 300 rwhp....that is fairly common in a H/C/I 302 combo. I have never seen a naturally aspirated 302 with over 350 rwhp (dyno proven). Even on this site I haven't seen one.

just to be sure i never said it fact, and did mention other bolt ons, and a 306ci. i agree no that you have mentioned it i havent seen one much over 300hp that i can remember. i will check with some of the guys over on the other board.

maverick0716 · Sep 7, 2004

I know there's a couple of 302's making around 330 rwhp but I haven't seen anything higher than that. That doesn't neccessarily mean that they don't exist but it does mean its quite hard to achieve.

FullAuto · Sep 8, 2004

330rwhp is about the max I've seen from a N/A stock bottom end 302 also. They are ALL Ed Curtis AFR, FTI, Edel combos. No custom cam = no 330rwhp. I believe ERSettin (I think that is his s/n) was one of the highest and he just broke 330rwhp with all of Ed's stuff.

5.0 HOtrain · Sep 8, 2004

maverick0716 said:
The claims of 350 hp from the manufacturers are ALWAYS at the flywheel. 350 fwhp is around 300 rwhp....that is fairly common in a H/C/I 302 combo. I have never seen a naturally aspirated 302 with over 350 rwhp (dyno proven). Even on this site I haven't seen one.

NoSlo90 had a 306 that made 376rwhp. People go with 351 becuase than can be stroked to 393,408.410,418,420,427, ect.........My #'s in sig with a n/a pump gas 418.
mike.

Grn92LX · Sep 8, 2004

FullAuto said:
330rwhp is about the max I've seen from a N/A stock bottom end 302 also. They are ALL Ed Curtis AFR, FTI, Edel combos. No custom cam = no 330rwhp. I believe ERSettin (I think that is his s/n) was one of the highest and he just broke 330rwhp with all of Ed's stuff.

My friends making 323hp/348tq on his little 306 with edelbrock heads, tfs street intake and an off the shelf comp cam. Nothing special and thats with junk shorty headers too. Doesn't always take ed's stuff fwiw.

Sir Hacksalot · Sep 8, 2004

tomst9 said:
i read in a hot rod magazine that for a naturally aspirated engine, your exhaust primary tube should be no larger than the heads of your ehaust valve. Unless he is going supercharged, would 1 3/4 headers be entirley way to big? I used to have 1 3/4 header on my combo and when i switched over to 1 5/8 i felt i big difference in low end torque.

That's what 4.10's are for.

As I type this, I am waiting for my car to come back with 1.75" BBK Ceramic LT Headers, OR X pipe, and Flowmaster AT cat back.

I know that 1.75" headers are too big for stock heads, but there will be a much more potent powerplant in there in the near future (12 months or so), and I only want to do it once.

Hax

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