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I hear Novi2000's will eat KB's???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Back2Mustangs
  • Start date Start date Jun 27, 2005
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Back2Mustangs

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I've seen more than once where people have stated that a stang running a Novi 2000 centrifugal supercharger can walk all over a KB blower... I wanna know how? I thought the point behind a roots/twin-screw was that you get the power right away. With a centrifugal supercharger you're in the vacuum until it starts to make boost. So that to me seems like a huge advantage of the KB over the Novi, right away... Now I guess the next question is, can a Novi make more boost than a KB(say 1.7)?? What about 2.2?

And a Roots/twin-screw just seems like it would be far more friendly to the motor with its location, and the mechanics of the blower itself...
 
O

oohsoobad2

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The Paxton is a great blower. It is possible for it to outpower a Kenne Belle, but many other variables must be considered. Most centifugal blower will make more top end power than roots blowers. The only downside is that the big power usually comes at and above 5000 RPM, where a street motor doesnt spend alot of time. At the dragstrip the advantage would probably go to the Paxton, but on the street a KB'd car would win stop light to stop light.
 

Newbie143

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oohsoobad2 said:
The Paxton is a great blower. It is possible for it to outpower a Kenne Belle, but many other variables must be considered. Most centifugal blower will make more top end power than roots blowers. The only downside is that the big power usually comes at and above 5000 RPM, where a street motor doesnt spend alot of time. At the dragstrip the advantage would probably go to the Paxton, but on the street a KB'd car would win stop light to stop light.
Click to expand...

yup.I'm with that too... i would love to have either though
 

mrvax

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Good points. You would really have to compare the quality of tunes and set ups. Are they both intercooled? It's possible to go risky and grab a few more ponies with either blower.

The KB will kick in right away and the car will feel like "big block" power. The centrifical will have to wind up a bit but continues to make boost in high rpm range. Not to say the KB falls flat on it's face.

IMO, if I spent a lot of time at the strip and was setup for high rpm, I'd go centrifical. Mosty street? I'd go KB.

I hope this helped w/o starting a pissing contest.
 

Orions98GT

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what they said, and price can set in also, you can get a fully set up centri a little cheaper then you can get the kb.
 

DBMSTNG

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the NOVI 2000 can make a ton more boost than the KB 1.7 and make about 6psi more than the KB 2.2 if i remember correctly.

the NOVI is better for racing because after first gear, the KB loses it's advantage.
 

hotmustang331

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#7
  • Jun 27, 2005
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On a stock SB the KB will beat the novi. On a forged bottemend, the novi all the way. There is not as big of an advantage on the street, between the 2 at 420RWHP. The KB will prolly pull the centri, but it wouldnt be by much. Tell me, how are you supposed to use the KBs lowend power at the takeoff in 1st gear? I cant get tarction in first gear N/A, how on earth would the advantage go to the KB? Both will light the tires through 1st and 2nd. A street driven car can go either way, either novi or 1.7 KB. Now when youy go to teh 2.2 to even compare upper power outputs, the street driven DD car goes to teh novi hands down. The 2.2 is not designed for street cruizing, and it wont fit under the stock hood. With the novi, it will make a TON of power and is COMPLETELY street DDable. Weekend only car, the again its a toss up between 2.2 and novi. Just depends on what you will use the car for and how much power you want.
 

Gearbanger 101

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#8
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Spin em all hard and it's.....

Novi 2000 > KB 1.7 or 2.2
 
O

oohsoobad2

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Lauching a KB'd car can be trickey, but it comes down to your skills and the setup of the car. My buddy let me drive his KB'd 03 Cobra on the street and at the track and even with 575 hp at the wheels, 1st gear traction was doable with 315 Nitto's and stock 3.55's. The standard Cobra kit comes with a 2.2 blower and its fine for street use, I cant see why it'd be any different for the 2.2 GT kit. If you know how to drive it, the KB car will always get the jump. With two identical GT motors, the 10 psi KB making a full 10 psi at say 3500 rpm and a 10 psi Paxton making maybe 5 psi at 3500 rpm...its obvious who is ahead in power.
 

hotmustang331

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They are not the same blowers, 2.2 2V KB will not fit under the stock hood. It is always compressing air and has heating problems when running around on teh street and not under boost. From what I hear, the KB runs cooler at 14PSI than at 1PSI. Its supereffecient in the upper PSI #s but down low, its soo ineffecient that it gets hot. Thats just what I have heard. If you notice they list the 2.2 2V as "race" and for the cobra, the 2.4 is "race".
 

02LaserRed2V

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There is clearly tons of misinformation in this thread. This debate has already been discussed and those with the most experience on this matter clearly stated the KB will win.

Tim (Cobra Killer) says so in this thread (posts #103, 108, 109 & 116);

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=4664983#post4664983

He works on BOTH KB and Novi 2000 cars for a living, so if you disagree, tell it to him...

Lastly, if you're having traction issues then you simply need better tires. Never blame the blower
 

Gearbanger 101

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#12
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hotmustang331 said:
It is always compressing air and has heating problems when running around on teh street and not under boost. From what I hear, the KB runs cooler at 14PSI than at 1PSI. Its supereffecient in the upper PSI #s but down low, its soo ineffecient that it gets hot.
Click to expand...
This is correct.
 

1fast03pony

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they both suck!




 

RedBullitt

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hehe damn 900 horsepower engine... it is such a piece of crap, the tires just spin and i cant move... lol
just messin ; )
 

mogs01gt

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well damn it, he didnt respond to my post at the bottom.


I will always take high RPM with tall gearing over low end torque. EI-Centrifugals or turbo.
 

lover

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02LaserRed2V said:
There is clearly tons of misinformation in this thread. This debate has already been discussed and those with the most experience on this matter clearly stated the KB will win.

Tim (Cobra Killer) says so in this thread (posts #103, 108, 109 & 116);

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=4664983#post4664983

He works on BOTH KB and Novi 2000 cars for a living, so if you disagree, tell it to him...

Lastly, if you're having traction issues then you simply need better tires. Never blame the blower
Click to expand...
I don't remember what issue it was in but in MMFF they did a Novi 2000/KB comparison, and the Novi stomped it. Even they were suprised because the Novi beat it from a stand still and on the top end. They thought the KBs number down low would be better, but they were not. The Novi had better numbers down low and began to pull away up top.
If the KBs were so bad ass, then why do you not see them in the winner's circle in Pro 5.0, Outlaw, and Drag Radial? You see Turbos and Centrifugals and an occasional NOS. I'm not knocking KBs. I think they are bad ass. But it's hard to see them being the best, when the best don't use them. My 02.
 

96WhiteNight

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Becuase the centi's are made for the highend boost and high rpm where the roots aren't thats why the pro 5.0 drivers use them. Im going with KB cause i want it for on the street vary rarely will i be above 5500 rpm i want a **** load of torque down low with no lag. I like KB and thats just my opinion
 
T

tjm73

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#18
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  • #18
oohsoobad2 said:
The Paxton is a great blower. It is possible for it to outpower a Kenne Belle, but many other variables must be considered. Most centifugal blower will make more top end power than roots blowers. The only downside is that the big power usually comes at and above 5000 RPM, where a street motor doesnt spend alot of time. At the dragstrip the advantage would probably go to the Paxton, but on the street a KB'd car would win stop light to stop light.
Click to expand...

Well put.

If you plan to race at the track a lot, look to the centrifical type blowers. Otherwise look at KB's.
 

Gearbanger 101

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96WhiteNight said:
Im going with KB cause i want it for on the street vary rarely will i be above 5500 rpm i want a **** load of torque down low with no lag. I like KB and thats just my opinion
Click to expand...
Let me just clear up one misconception about centrifugal superchargers before this thread goes any further. You don’t get “lag” with a centrifugal supercharger. Lag is something you get with a turbo because in order for it to move air, it requires a sufficient amount of exhaust flow to accumulate pressure. The turbo actually acts as a restriction until building sufficient pressure, therefore you get the momentary “lag” as a result.

Centrifugal chargers are always moving air and there is no “lag” to speak of as it builds pressure. The results of a centrifugal blower are only less dramatic at low rpm because the smaller impeller must be spinning much faster than that of say a set of lobes or rotors in a positive displacement blower in order to move any large volume of air. Positive displacement blower are so much more noticeable down low because of the vast amounts of air they move in comparison to each revolution. This is why the rule the roost from the get go. But, this same principal also works against them as RPM increases. These lobes/rotors have a much larger surface area and overall mass than the smaller, more efficient impeller and as such create loads of unwanted heat as blower and engine rpm increase. Yes, the KB design is more efficient than your typical “roots” set up beyond 6-7psi, or so, but they’re not immune to heat as many have been lead to believe. The 1.7KB reaches peek efficiency at 14psi….which is not to say that it’s more efficient that a centrifugal, just the most efficient for it’s own design. Truth be told, the 1.7 is far less efficient than say a comparable M90 roots design below 6psi. Their differences are only really apparent beyond the 6psi level and because the 1.7KB is slightly larger, moving a larger volume of air from the get go.

A centrifugal is not as efficient from the sense that at low blower rpm, it will not move the same volume of air that a positive displacement blower will, but from a heat perspective it kills them all, hands down. Centrifugals were designed to spin hard and as are not often comparable to the KB at low boost levels. A KB will murder nearly any Centrifugal at or below 6-7psi, but you’ll notice that after that, the gap starts to close and by 10psi the centi has pulled even with the KB and by 14psi the completely turned and the KB has run out of it’s efficiency ranger (and out of breath) in the process.

This is why KB’s make excellent street blowers, but are not as hard hitting at the track. But that’s not to say that a centrifugal can’t be a great street blower as well. Because if it’s higher efficiency (the ability to move more air, while making less heat) a centrifugal can be fitted with a smaller pulley and spun harder (assuming engine internals and other supporting components permit) and as such reach peek boost levels much quicker than they would if they were fitted to spin at say a max of 7-8psi. This would put them nearly even ground with the KB down low, but remain far superior in the mid range at top end. The big boys of the sport know this and as such is why 95% of them stick with the Centrifugal design.
 

96WhiteNight

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Gearbanger 101 said:
Let me just clear up one misconception about centrifugal superchargers before this thread goes any further. You don’t get “lag” with a centrifugal supercharger. Lag is something you get with a turbo because in order for it to move air, it requires a sufficient amount of exhaust flow to accumulate pressure. The turbo actually acts as a restriction until building sufficient pressure, therefore you get the momentary “lag” as a result.

Centrifugal chargers are always moving air and there is no “lag” to speak of as it builds pressure. The results of a centrifugal blower are only less dramatic at low rpm because the smaller impeller must be spinning much faster than that of say a set of lobes or rotors in a positive displacement blower in order to move any large volume of air. Positive displacement blower are so much more noticeable down low because of the vast amounts of air they move in comparison to each revolution. This is why the rule the roost from the get go. But, this same principal also works against them as RPM increases. These lobes/rotors have a much larger surface area and overall mass than the smaller, more efficient impeller and as such create loads of unwanted heat as blower and engine rpm increase. Yes, the KB design is more efficient than your typical “roots” set up beyond 6-7psi, or so, but they’re not immune to heat as many have been lead to believe. The 1.7KB reaches peek efficiency at 14psi….which is not to say that it’s more efficient that a centrifugal, just the most efficient for it’s own design. Truth be told, the 1.7 is far less efficient than say a comparable M90 roots design below 6psi. Their differences are only really apparent beyond the 6psi level and because the 1.7KB is slightly larger, moving a larger volume of air from the get go.

A centrifugal is not as efficient from the sense that at low blower rpm, it will not move the same volume of air that a positive displacement blower will, but from a heat perspective it kills them all, hands down. Centrifugals were designed to spin hard and as are not often comparable to the KB at low boost levels. A KB will murder nearly any Centrifugal at or below 6-7psi, but you’ll notice that after that, the gap starts to close and by 10psi the centi has pulled even with the KB and by 14psi the completely turned and the KB has run out of it’s efficiency ranger (and out of breath) in the process.

This is why KB’s make excellent street blowers, but are not as hard hitting at the track. But that’s not to say that a centrifugal can’t be a great street blower as well. Because if it’s higher efficiency (the ability to move more air, while making less heat) a centrifugal can be fitted with a smaller pulley and spun harder (assuming engine internals and other supporting components permit) and as such reach peek boost levels much quicker than they would if they were fitted to spin at say a max of 7-8psi. This would put them nearly even ground with the KB down low, but remain far superior in the mid range at top end. The big boys of the sport know this and as such is why 95% of them stick with the Centrifugal design.
Click to expand...


Yes i know, but lag is the common word used for the delay the centri's have, all im saying is that im a KB fan becuase of the performance it gives me on the street not on the track
 
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