I hear Novi2000's will eat KB's???

[mrvax]

There is clearly tons of misinformation in this thread. This debate has already been discussed and those with the most experience on this matter clearly stated the KB will win.

Tim (Cobra Killer) says so in this thread (posts #103, 108, 109 & 116);

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=4664983#post4664983

He works on BOTH KB and Novi 2000 cars for a living, so if you disagree, tell it to him...

If Tim gives the KB the edge, and has data that supports it as shown in that link, end the discussion now.

 

[lover]

If Tim gives the KB the edge, and has data that supports it as shown in that link, end the discussion now.

With all due respect, Tim is not the only one that installs both of these superchargers. I'll take the professionals at MMFF and their documented evidence anyday. And their professionals and evidence gave the edge to the centrifugals. Look at it this way, all you have to do is maybe take a 302 and add a 347 stroker and maybe 3.73 and there you have the torque and the acceleration you need to run right on par with that of the KB. The best thing about it is that why you are running neck and neck with the KB, the KB has used up alot of its boost, the centrifugal's boost hasn't really started kicking in yet. By mid rpm, and the centrifugal is just getting started, it's going to run away like a scalded dawg.
I took a look in a couple of Mustang magazines just now and out of about 2 months worth of magazine coverage of mustangs all of them were sporting centrifugals or turbos.
Look in the 5.0 mustang & super fords of March and see what Mike Murillo, John Urist, and a few more have in their STREET MUSTANGS. Like I said, I'm just having a hard time believing KBs are the best, when the TOP DAWGS are running centrifugals and turbos. Not only on the track, but in their killer street mustangs also....

 

[02LaserRed2V]

If the KBs were so bad ass, then why do you not see them in the winner's circle in Pro 5.0, Outlaw, and Drag Radial? You see Turbos and Centrifugals and an occasional NOS. I'm not knocking KBs. I think they are bad ass. But it's hard to see them being the best, when the best don't use them. My 02.

Simple. Centri powered stangs have been around a lot longer than KBs. There are now more guys with centris that are switching to the Twin Screw.

And given they both have equal power, the KB will come out on top. A 600hp KB'd stang WILL beat a 600hp Novi 2000 stang on the street and the track. A centri will need more setups (like gears, stall convertors for autos, etc.) to keep up or surpass.

With all due respect, Tim is not the only one that installs both of these superchargers. I'll take the professionals at MMFF and their documented evidence anyday. .

Tim not only installs blowers for a living, he also drives those stangs; all of them. You clearly give too much credit to magazine "professionals" whilst refusing to listen to anyone else. You don't happen to work for this particular magazine, do you?

 

[DBMSTNG]

There is clearly tons of misinformation in this thread. This debate has already been discussed and those with the most experience on this matter clearly stated the KB will win.

Tim (Cobra Killer) says so in this thread (posts #103, 108, 109 & 116);

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=4664983#post4664983

He works on BOTH KB and Novi 2000 cars for a living, so if you disagree, tell it to him...

Lastly, if you're having traction issues then you simply need better tires. Never blame the blower

that's with similar power figures. not similar boost figures. so when the KB makes close to the same power, it can beat a NOVI in the 1/4 because it has a better powerband. the original post was about boost. as far as i know, the fastest KB GT was running low low 10's. i know of atleast 2 NOVI 2000 powered cars in the 9's. one is mid 9's.

 

[streetstang03]

isnt GI Joe running the KB 2.2L and in the 9s??

 

[hotmustang331]

Well first off I respect Tim and what he is saing and YES, 2 closely powerd cars, 1 with a KB and the 2nd with a centri...the KB one will win. BUT Tim and YOU GUYS are comparing a 2.2 RACE RE: RACE blower to a T trim street blower! This is how the comparison should be with a 2V.
1.7 STREET blower vs T trim or N 2000 STREET blowers.
1.7 =

2.2 RACE blower vs Procharger F1-R or heck even a F3-R RACE blowers.

2.2 =

Neither Tim or you guys can FAIRLY compare a street centri to a RACE KB blower!!!!! That tells you something if it atkes KB's race series to beat paxton,vortec, and procharger's street series. A street T trim will walk ALL OVER a street 1.7 KB. And a race F3-R will walk ALL OVER a race 2.2. You cant argue with that guys, its the truth.

 

[02LaserRed2V]

The thread starter wasn't talking about Procharger F1-R or the F3-R RACE blowers. He was asking if the NOVI 2000 can eat the KB 1.7L and 2.2L

The answer is yes and no. Yes, it will eat the 1.7, but no, it won't eat the 2.2

It's clearly obvious this debate can go on and on but it won't change anyone's mind. I simply stated what I personally think and firmly stand by it. In the end, there is no such thing as the best blower.

 

[hotmustang331]

I wasnt directing that at you at all LOL. that was for the link really and all these people being put under the impression that KBs will own centris. So I just set it staright. So yea, a 2.2 will even or maybe beat a novi in the end, and 1.7 gets OWNED. But like I said, the 2.2 is a race blower. Not for a DD car.

BTW I am not going centri on my 04, I am getting a TT setup. 2.2 would be nice, but those darn heating problems , centri is also nice but not enough torque. SO the TTs are the way to go, sure they have lag, but not much and will make more torque (peak) than even the TS blower, and will hold power pretty good in the upper RPMs. Everything has its downfault...and when you get into race TTs on a street car, that = a . TOO much lag and the power comes on TOO fast and sudden, but for my needs they are fine. It comes down to what you want

 

[mogs01gt]

Yes i know, but lag is the common word used for the delay the centri's have, all im saying is that im a KB fan becuase of the performance it gives me on the street not on the track

only the misinformed refer to it as lag.

 

[lover]

Simple. Centri powered stangs have been around a lot longer than KBs. There are now more guys with centris that are switching to the Twin Screw.

And given they both have equal power, the KB will come out on top. A 600hp KB'd stang WILL beat a 600hp Novi 2000 stang on the street and the track. A centri will need more setups (like gears, stall convertors for autos, etc.) to keep up or surpass.
Tim not only installs blowers for a living, he also drives those stangs; all of them. You clearly give too much credit to magazine "professionals" whilst refusing to listen to anyone else. You don't happen to work for this particular magazine, do you?

It seems funny how you say that, when obviously I don't see you with your own Mustang Performance shop. I listen to everyone on what they have to say. I'm not biased in one way or the other. But it seems as though you are and Tim's word is the HOLY SCRIPTURE of SUPERCHARGERS. It's hard to disprove hard core facts, evidence, and Real Street Racers. Like I said, Go and ask Mike Murillo, John Urist, and a whole gang of others who have killer Street Stangs why they don't use a KB if it's so bad ass. I'm pretty sure if it was so tough, they would definitely have one. The fact is, they do not. I'm going by all the PROs and professionals. You are basing your theoy on one person. Do yourself a favor and go to Fun Ford Weekend or NMRA and ask those idiot Pro Racers, why in the hell don't they wake up and stop using centrifugals and use the Great KB. Go ahead and preach the GOSPEL of KB to them and how your KB can whip those centrifugals and turbos. They would probably have the wagon come and get you and have you tossed in a room with padded walls.
You are going by fact from another person. I know a guy that works on Mustangs and have been working on them before you could open your eyes kid. I'll take his 396 turbo over any KB anyday. I'll bet car titles on that race. I've seen him run a bike down with this Novi 2000. It was Suzuki 1000 shyt. A Novi can make as much as 27lbs of boost.
But you and Tim are right and every Mustang Racers that are running as low as 6 seconds to 9 seconds are totally wrong. The next time I'm at a race I'm going to tell Billy Glidden and Big Daddy Dwayne them, "Are ya'll stupid or something. 02LaserRed said that a KB is the best power adder. Ya'll are stupid. I'm going with 02Laser."

 

[lover]

Neither Tim or you guys can FAIRLY compare a street centri to a RACE KB blower!!!!! That tells you something if it atkes KB's race series to beat paxton,vortec, and procharger's street series. A street T trim will walk ALL OVER a street 1.7 KB. And a race F3-R will walk ALL OVER a race 2.2. You cant argue with that guys, its the truth. [/QUOTE]



What he said....

 

[Bornstanger]

and let the pissing contest begin!

 

[cobra killer]

With all due respect, Tim is not the only one that installs both of these superchargers. I'll take the professionals at MMFF and their documented evidence anyday. And their professionals and evidence gave the edge to the centrifugals. Look at it this way, all you have to do is maybe take a 302 and add a 347 stroker and maybe 3.73 and there you have the torque and the acceleration you need to run right on par with that of the KB. The best thing about it is that why you are running neck and neck with the KB, the KB has used up alot of its boost, the centrifugal's boost hasn't really started kicking in yet. By mid rpm, and the centrifugal is just getting started, it's going to run away like a scalded dawg.
I took a look in a couple of Mustang magazines just now and out of about 2 months worth of magazine coverage of mustangs all of them were sporting centrifugals or turbos.
Look in the 5.0 mustang & super fords of March and see what Mike Murillo, John Urist, and a few more have in their STREET MUSTANGS. Like I said, I'm just having a hard time believing KBs are the best, when the TOP DAWGS are running centrifugals and turbos. Not only on the track, but in their killer street mustangs also....

You can read ALL the magazines you want.
Here's some dyno and track data.
Same 2 cars,KB with 19 psi and a Novi 2000 with 22 psi.

KB 2.2 car went 10.0 @ 134 mph..Novi car went 10.3 @ 136..Novi car has 60 peak rwhp over the KB car.KB car has way more tq thru the whole power band.These are both street cars.We build 6-700rwhp 2 valves EVERY day.MM&FF doesn't build anything except articles.We have REAL world dyno numbers and track times.
Of course anyone here is welcome to their opinion,but we have facts!

Just had a KB 2.2 pull 650rwhp and 669TQ with 18 psi.Car had made 600tq from 2k to 6500rpm.NEVER went below 600tQ.

Last I checked I've made more power than anyone with a 2v and a blower,so I kinda know wtf Im talking about..
If I were building my own street car it would have a KB 2.2 on it.

 

[02LaserRed2V]

It seems funny how you say that, when obviously I don't see you with your own Mustang Performance shop. I listen to everyone on what they have to say. I'm not biased in one way or the other. But it seems as though you are and Tim's word is the HOLY SCRIPTURE of SUPERCHARGERS. It's hard to disprove hard core facts, evidence, and Real Street Racers. Like I said, Go and ask Mike Murillo, John Urist, and a whole gang of others who have killer Street Stangs why they don't use a KB if it's so bad ass. I'm pretty sure if it was so tough, they would definitely have one. The fact is, they do not. I'm going by all the PROs and professionals. You are basing your theoy on one person. Do yourself a favor and go to Fun Ford Weekend or NMRA and ask those idiot Pro Racers, why in the hell don't they wake up and stop using centrifugals and use the Great KB. Go ahead and preach the GOSPEL of KB to them and how your KB can whip those centrifugals and turbos. They would probably have the wagon come and get you and have you tossed in a room with padded walls.
You are going by fact from another person. I know a guy that works on Mustangs and have been working on them before you could open your eyes kid. I'll take his 396 turbo over any KB anyday. I'll bet car titles on that race. I've seen him run a bike down with this Novi 2000. It was Suzuki 1000 shyt. A Novi can make as much as 27lbs of boost.
But you and Tim are right and every Mustang Racers that are running as low as 6 seconds to 9 seconds are totally wrong. The next time I'm at a race I'm going to tell Billy Glidden and Big Daddy Dwayne them, "Are ya'll stupid or something. 02LaserRed said that a KB is the best power adder. Ya'll are stupid. I'm going with 02Laser."

You actually make some interesting points that I totally understand. But you still totally missed the point I was making; or this is just a classic case of misunderstanding. I was comparing a KB 2.2 street car to a Novi 2000 street car, w/similar figures. Some ppl had the impression a NOVI 2000 would walk a KB (again, w/similar figures). I said no. In order for that to happen, there has to be be more setups (increasing boost, etc.) added. There are so many other factors that wasn't mentioned, including weight etc.

I NEVER stated that the KB was the best power adder. So don't be putting words into my mouth. I don't know why you even brought up turbos. I cannot recall anyone asking for a commparison with turbos.

 

[cobra killer]

Neither Tim or you guys can FAIRLY compare a street centri to a RACE KB blower!!!!! That tells you something if it atkes KB's race series to beat paxton,vortec, and procharger's street series. A street T trim will walk ALL OVER a street 1.7 KB. And a race F3-R will walk ALL OVER a race 2.2. You cant argue with that guys, its the truth.

Why dont you compare twin 88 mm's to a F3-R?We are talking about street cars here.Not race cars.

KB 2.2 is called a race blower because its NOT CARB legal..
I'll tell ya what,your in atlanta,swing on by and i'll show you what a 2.2 can do.From what I can see your sitting behind a monitor,reading magazines and injecting an opinion based on nothing.Our KB 2.2 STREET cars run faster than our Novi,JT trim or any other cen. blower street car @ the track.

Why not ask G.I joe about going from a Novi 2000 with 20 psi to a KB 2.2 with 19 psi..Last time I checked the car went 1 full second faster in the 1/4 mile .

A Novi 2000 is a race blower,so is the JT trim.

 

[96WhiteNight]

You actually make some interesting points that I totally understand. But you still totally missed the point I was making; or this is just a classic case of misunderstanding. I was comparing a KB 2.2 street car to a Novi 2000 street car, w/similar figures. Some ppl had the impression a NOVI 2000 would walk a KB (again, w/similar figures). I said no. In order for that to happen, there has to be be more setups (increasing boost, etc.) added. There are so many other factors that wasn't mentioned, including weight etc.

I NEVER stated that the KB was the best power adder. So don't be putting words into my mouth. I don't know why you even brought up turbos. I cannot recall anyone asking for a commparison with turbos.

 

[cobra killer]

The KB 2.2 is the same blower the cobra's run.I have no idea why its being called a "race" blower.KB may list it as that because it requires a built motor and is not CARB legal.
KB doesn't make anything big enough to be considered a race blower.
Bar none,equal psi,equal setups,the KB will win.We have already proved it with 2 identical setups.

If you are thinking about running heads up in a competitive class there isn't a positive displacement blower big enough for our cars.If your looking for a fast street/strip car KB 2.2 is my only choice.

If you really want to piss around about what is faster,then lets talk turbo's verse blowers.You keep talking RACE cars.We are talking about street/strip cars.
A F2M race car,hell even a Novi 2000 powered race car will kill a street driven KB 2.2 car.Noones saying they wont.Again tho,we built 2 identical street cars and the KB 2.2 with 3 less psi and 60 less peak rwhp went 3 tenths faster.The Novi car was actually lighter than the KB car as well.

 

[cobra killer]

I just realized Im an idiot for arguing with you Lover..Disregard anything I've said.I forgot where I was at.

I let G.I joe know about this thread.Let the man who went from a Novi 2000 with 650rwhp to a KB 2.2 with 600rwhp tell you the difference and which is faster.You of course are welcome to argue with him,but he has owned both and ran both @ the track.

Look up Micheal Kidd as well.He went from a JT trim to a KB 2.2..Went faster as well...Maybe Kidd will chime in as well.

 

[mogs01gt]

what is the RPM limit of the 2.2kb or are they able to be revved up 7k on a SOHC car?

 

[mrvax]

Why not ask G.I joe about going from a Novi 2000 with 20 psi to a KB 2.2 with 19 psi..Last time I checked the car went 1 full second faster in the 1/4 mile.

This seems to answer this thread's question the best.