Is a 700 horse 351w (418) streetable?

travisranger200

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Dec 27, 2010
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I didn't want to highjack 281pony's thread so I started this one. Wow, this forum has me second guessing myself now! I knew I was going to be laid off again this winter so I bought an 87 gt this last fall to give me something to do this winter. So far I have bought all this to build a 418 stroker when I was just building something to just play around with: c-9 block, a set of c-3 yates heads with matching intake, eagle forged crank and rods, diamond 36 dish pistons, jesel roller rockers, Isky 714" roller cam and I'm not even close to being done. The engine is at the machine shop now. I'm wanting to go with a c-4 trans, but the way funds are looking, the T-5 is staying for awhile. It has an 8.8 with 4.10's. I got a really good deal on the heads, which are only 40cc's, this why I have had to go the route of the diamond 36 dish pistons. I should be around 10.5-1 compression. I am not wanting a race car, just a fun street car. Please feel free to voice your opinions on what some of you guys would do.
87gt004.jpg
 
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2000xp8

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As we said earlier, the trans isnt going to last long, if at all.
The c4 is a fun killer imo for street car, no OD and the boredom of not shifting. i understand the auto for a dd or a race car, just not for a toy. tko600 or viper spec t56.
That combo for the street looks a little aggressive.
Make sure you do the cam and intake right, you dont want to land up with a NA engine with no low end, they suck on the street.
 

travisranger200

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I will probably end up going with a c-4, I have a buddy that rebuilds transmissions. This will probably be my cheapest route for now. Now for the cam, I ran into an awsome deal on this as well, I picked up this Ernie Elliot solid roller 1 hr dyno time cam for $35.00, here is the specs: 714 duration @ .050=272 exh lift .672 duration @ .050=280, according to a popular hot rodding 418 build, I'm almost the same except the heads, intake and cam are a bit bigger and they produced high 676 horse.
 

S&B

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700 HP n/a motor in my opionion will not be streetable, thats almost 2 HP per Cubic inch.

Im exited about the setup but I sure as hell wouldn't be getting milk in the thing
 

2000xp8

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I will probably end up going with a c-4, I have a buddy that rebuilds transmissions. This will probably be my cheapest route for now. Now for the cam, I ran into an awsome deal on this as well, I picked up this Ernie Elliot solid roller 1 hr dyno time cam for $35.00, here is the specs: 714 duration @ .050=272 exh lift .672 duration @ .050=280, according to a popular hot rodding 418 build, I'm almost the same except the heads, intake and cam are a bit bigger and they produced high 676 horse.
Your setup sounds extremely fast but also terrible to drive.

My advice, no matter what make sure it's efi, an 87 and newer fox with a carb, is pretty undesireable, if you had to unload it, you'll take a serious bath, most people would see the carb and run, and rightfully so.
I'm not experienced or knowledgeable with your heads, all i know is they can make alot of power, so for a mating efi intake, i have no clue, hopefully there is some out there.
And don't exceed the stock mustang's fuel system, alot of money is lost in the fuel system, trust me.
Meaning, use a hp 255 gss340 pump, with 42lb injectors, that should support 550rwhp NA.

The solid setup while makes alot more rpm, and with that comes with more power, takes a hit in the reliability and driveability. Likely out the window goes any type of low rpm grunt. As i said earlier, i sacrificed low rpm power on my last setup, to get more up top, that was a serious mistake on my part. That's what going for glory instead of driveability gets you.
None of the guys i know with solid setups drive their car much, if at all anymore. You know what they landed up doing, buying another mustang and building it as a street car.

You may already be into this too deep, sounds more like you have a race car than a street car.
 

travisranger200

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I appreciate all your advice! This will by no means be a DD, I was just wanting something to take to town with the lady or one of our kids and make a few laps, as well as take it to the track every now and again. Yes in it to far to backtrack, lol. Back in the 90's I built 2 malibus 78&79, and I think I built both of them for what I have in this one already. I am going with carb for now, probably 1000 or 1050, I would rather it be EFI, but that would be another $3000. These cars are awsome, there is so much you can do with them! As I read someone say, they are like women= money pit, lol.
 

2000xp8

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I appreciate all your advice! This will by no means be a DD, I was just wanting something to take to town with the lady or one of our kids and make a few laps, as well as take it to the track every now and again. Yes in it to far to backtrack, lol. Back in the 90's I built 2 malibus 78&79, and I think I built both of them for what I have in this one already. I am going with carb for now, probably 1000 or 1050, I would rather it be EFI, but that would be another $3000. These cars are awsome, there is so much you can do with them! As I read someone say, they are like women= money pit, lol.
Before i say this, note that i am no yates heads expert, nor do i really know the availability of compatible parts.
But after a couple searches, it would appear there are efi intakes meant to be used on the heads you have.
If that is the case, it would likely be easier and cheaper to leave the stock fuel system in place, add the right intake, none of which were all that expensive, and keep it that way.

Changing the fuel setup to a carb is not easy or cheap, nor is a good carberator.

Just a route to explore.
If it were my car, i'd research that until i was satified it won't work, before i carb swapped.
 

90lxcoupe

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Oct 7, 2003
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Before i say this, note that i am no yates heads expert, nor do i really know the availability of compatible parts.
But after a couple searches, it would appear there are efi intakes meant to be used on the heads you have.
If that is the case, it would likely be easier and cheaper to leave the stock fuel system in place, add the right intake, none of which were all that expensive, and keep it that way.

Changing the fuel setup to a carb is not easy or cheap, nor is a good carberator.

Just a route to explore.
If it were my car, i'd research that until i was satified it won't work, before i carb swapped.
if he was going EFI with that setup then the stock computer is a total waste of time. That thing is going to want to rev, most yates motors ive seen go to at least 8k rpms. and sticking with the stock fuel system is also a waste of time. Thats some serious hardware there that probably has no buisness being on a street car, its gonna be rowdy, shake your fillings out, not wanna idle and only make you happy when your foot is on the floor...

That being said, GO MAN GO! haha, im all about crazy street cars, and this one is going to be nuts if you do it right.
 

srtthis

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if he was going EFI with that setup then the stock computer is a total waste of time. That thing is going to want to rev, most yates motors ive seen go to at least 8k rpms. and sticking with the stock fuel system is also a waste of time. Thats some serious hardware there that probably has no buisness being on a street car, its gonna be rowdy, shake your fillings out, not wanna idle and only make you happy when your foot is on the floor...

That being said, GO MAN GO! haha, im all about crazy street cars, and this one is going to be nuts if you do it right.

SC1's on the coupe and we spin her to around 9200RPMS

the sound of sex is a 440" high compression small block turning 9K
 

2000xp8

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if he was going EFI with that setup then the stock computer is a total waste of time. That thing is going to want to rev, most yates motors ive seen go to at least 8k rpms. and sticking with the stock fuel system is also a waste of time. Thats some serious hardware there that probably has no buisness being on a street car, its gonna be rowdy, shake your fillings out, not wanna idle and only make you happy when your foot is on the floor...

That being said, GO MAN GO! haha, im all about crazy street cars, and this one is going to be nuts if you do it right.
Believe it or not the stock computer (rev limter removed) will handle 7800rpm (that's the highest i've personally seen it run). That's on a low 10 car, all motor.

My point with the stock comp and fuel system was for him to try and tone it back a little, and make it a more friendly street car.
I didn't think he could run it as is with stock parts.

And travis, if your "lady" doesn't hate this car when your done, she's either lying or you found the best wife on the planet.
 

90lxcoupe

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Believe it or not the stock computer (rev limter removed) will handle 7800rpm (that's the highest i've personally seen it run). That's on a low 10 car, all motor.
Ive heard if you modify the crystals you can make em run that high, but my stock ECU with an SCT chip starts breaking up bad after about 6200ish.

hypothetically if you were going to go dial that motor back that much i think you would be better off selling the yates stuff and just building a conventional headed small block, I would just rather see it run to its full potential than have it limitied by a fuel system or computer, but thats just me
 

junkyardwarrior

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The heads and intake are usually a matched set as used on circle track engines. Typically, the C3's come in many different variations-and that is why I tell people that are interested in them to stray away unless you know EXACTLY what you're getting.

Many (most?) are set up to run a very narrow RPM band. On asphault engines, typically 7800-9500 RPM. Some of the shorter track engines are built run run 6500-8000. Below those RPM levels they're really not set up to run. Bucking, rough running, run fat to stay alive, that type thing.

And most of the Yates style manifolds-especially NASCAR asphault track stuff-they don't do squat until they're 7000 RPM or better. HUGE plenums and runners with a cross section approacing (or exceeding) those of most drag race, street-strip big block engines with 100 more inches to feed.

The camshafts are same way. Narrow RPM band on most circle track stuff. responsive on the low end but not much power-or not AS much power as a good custom cam should be.

I say since you have the stuff, run it and see how it works out. Yeah it'll be a monster but at more RPM than a typical serious play toy street car will ever see BUT it should still be fun. Just not optimal.

Now stick a pair of hair dryers on it and that RPM band comes down and power goes up. WAY up ;)
 

travisranger200

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Very good information! The car is an ex drag car, and has a carbed 302 in it now. So with that being said there is no computer or EFI system on it. It has all the MSD goods, along with Holley Blue fuel pump, cage, fuel cell, race buckets. Now I'm just trying to convert alot of it back to stock looking with a radical engine. The problem all started when I came across the yates heads and could not pass them up, so now I'm basically building the car around the heads, intake and cam. I will keep everyone posted with new pics as the build goes. Engine is still at the shop, so right now I'm working on the body to get it prepped for new paint. Keep the opinions coming!
 

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end
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Very good information! The car is an ex drag car, and has a carbed 302 in it now. So with that being said there is no computer or EFI system on it. It has all the MSD goods, along with Holley Blue fuel pump, cage, fuel cell, race buckets. Now I'm just trying to convert alot of it back to stock looking with a radical engine. The problem all started when I came across the yates heads and could not pass them up, so now I'm basically building the car around the heads, intake and cam. I will keep everyone posted with new pics as the build goes. Engine is still at the shop, so right now I'm working on the body to get it prepped for new paint. Keep the opinions coming!
chuck that holly junk in the trash before it leaves you stranded...

MAGNAFUEL FTMFW!
 

travisranger200

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Dec 27, 2010
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Hairdryers!

The heads and intake are usually a matched set as used on circle track engines. Typically, the C3's come in many different variations-and that is why I tell people that are interested in them to stray away unless you know EXACTLY what you're getting.

Many (most?) are set up to run a very narrow RPM band. On asphault engines, typically 7800-9500 RPM. Some of the shorter track engines are built run run 6500-8000. Below those RPM levels they're really not set up to run. Bucking, rough running, run fat to stay alive, that type thing.

And most of the Yates style manifolds-especially NASCAR asphault track stuff-they don't do squat until they're 7000 RPM or better. HUGE plenums and runners with a cross section approacing (or exceeding) those of most drag race, street-strip big block engines with 100 more inches to feed.

The camshafts are same way. Narrow RPM band on most circle track stuff. responsive on the low end but not much power-or not AS much power as a good custom cam should be.

I say since you have the stuff, run it and see how it works out. Yeah it'll be a monster but at more RPM than a typical serious play toy street car will ever see BUT it should still be fun. Just not optimal.

Now stick a pair of hair dryers on it and that RPM band comes down and power goes up. WAY up ;)
I have put much thought into this as well! When I get it all done and I do not like it, I'm going to sell the heads and intake and convert over to a low compression turbo car. With the 36cc dish pistons going from a 40cc head to a 58-60cc head will drop me down to around 8-9 to 1 compression.
 
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